I have no problems tuning in a load and once I find it the 650 doesn't waver more than 0.1 grains nor +\- more than 0.005" throughout the run whether I run 100 or 1000, even if I stop midstream and start again the next day. Learning the 650 does take a little time and study, kind of like learning to be a machinist. But if you pay attention and make no assumptions, it isn't that hard.
Dillon RL550B or XL650
- Thread starter jayman9207
- Start date
I have no problems tuning in a load and once I find it the 650 doesn't waver more than 0.1 grains nor +\- more than 0.005" throughout the run whether I run 100 or 1000, even if I stop midstream and start again the next day. Learning the 650 does take a little time and study, kind of like learning to be a machinist. But if you pay attention and make no assumptions, it isn't that hard.
MWC2068
Member
You may want to look at the Hornaday Lock-N-Load AP, if cost is an issue, it auto indexes, has the quick change bushings, has rifle and pistol powder bushings, it uses Any standard dies, carbide works best and it's way less expensive than either of the Dillions you are looking at, customer service is great and the press works really well. You can get different powder bushings and quick change bushings for each caliber or bullet weight, it makes change over to a different caliber really easy.
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MWC2068
Member
If you have madeup your mind, Scheels.com/hunting has the Dillion 550B in stock for 389.99, online only.
Squarebutt
Member
Before you decide, add up the cost of not only the presses, but the parts needed to change calibers. There's a significant difference in the bottom line.
Some of the match shooters I know size, trim and prime their cases on single-stage presses, then add powder and bullet on the 550.
I've been happy with the 550 for over 30 years, but I'm not a match competitor shooting 1000 rounds every week.
Some of the match shooters I know size, trim and prime their cases on single-stage presses, then add powder and bullet on the 550.
I've been happy with the 550 for over 30 years, but I'm not a match competitor shooting 1000 rounds every week.
m657
Member
OP:
cost of the 'caliber change' really does need to be factored into the plans of any owner/operator....
The Dies are going to cost whatever you have to pay anyway when you add a caliber.
There is the cost of the "conversion kit", which is a necessity to make it work for that caliber. Those are roughly $72 each as I write this. Eventually you'll probably have enough of the basics you can mix & match for new calibers, or buy the missing essential part separately. I used to do that with the 550 but now just figure each NEW caliber I add, is going to cost me about $150 for dies & conversion kit. If that is what stops me, I should actually reconsider just why do I want that 'new caliber'.
And yes, it would be nice at times to have minimal costs for such additions.....yet every caliber I do add that I like, I find it advantageous to be able to load at will whatever amount desirable without spending all week doing such. I like the 'one pull--one loaded round' factor.
The tool head the last I checked was closing in on $20, but they last forever.
You can mount your dies in a tool head, adjust to whatever you want, and swap to another caliber in a matter of seconds.
It's the change over of the shell plate etc that takes a little time.
If you are changing from large to small primers, there's another few minutes.
I've made modification over the years to my 650, such that caliber changes with primer size changes might be easily done in about 5 minutes. During that time I often do various clean/grease/inspect/marvel at the wonders of first class along the way.
It does take a bit to catch all the tricks....don't know any set up that doesn't have the owner saying "Oh, it works better THIS way than THAT way" and "Oh, I like to do it THIS way because...."
I tend to run my reloading in batches, not so much 'caliber' as 'primer size'....and these days probably don't have to change that more than a couple times a year.
After 30+ years on a Dillon, the features and strengths of the machine keep me satisfied even now, warts n'all.....
good luck on your reloading adventure!!!!
cost of the 'caliber change' really does need to be factored into the plans of any owner/operator....
The Dies are going to cost whatever you have to pay anyway when you add a caliber.
There is the cost of the "conversion kit", which is a necessity to make it work for that caliber. Those are roughly $72 each as I write this. Eventually you'll probably have enough of the basics you can mix & match for new calibers, or buy the missing essential part separately. I used to do that with the 550 but now just figure each NEW caliber I add, is going to cost me about $150 for dies & conversion kit. If that is what stops me, I should actually reconsider just why do I want that 'new caliber'.
And yes, it would be nice at times to have minimal costs for such additions.....yet every caliber I do add that I like, I find it advantageous to be able to load at will whatever amount desirable without spending all week doing such. I like the 'one pull--one loaded round' factor.
The tool head the last I checked was closing in on $20, but they last forever.
You can mount your dies in a tool head, adjust to whatever you want, and swap to another caliber in a matter of seconds.
It's the change over of the shell plate etc that takes a little time.
If you are changing from large to small primers, there's another few minutes.
I've made modification over the years to my 650, such that caliber changes with primer size changes might be easily done in about 5 minutes. During that time I often do various clean/grease/inspect/marvel at the wonders of first class along the way.
It does take a bit to catch all the tricks....don't know any set up that doesn't have the owner saying "Oh, it works better THIS way than THAT way" and "Oh, I like to do it THIS way because...."
I tend to run my reloading in batches, not so much 'caliber' as 'primer size'....and these days probably don't have to change that more than a couple times a year.
After 30+ years on a Dillon, the features and strengths of the machine keep me satisfied even now, warts n'all.....
good luck on your reloading adventure!!!!
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fredj338
Member
Things wear out. You have to keep it lubed & clean. So yes, it is a set & forget for the most part, if you do not convert it to other calibers. Every caliber conversion requries some minor adjustments, so potential for things to go wrong. WHy I like the 550 for changing calibers often, it's just that much easier to get back up & running.
As far as the LNL goes, sure, if you must have a auto indexing press w/o a case feeder, then it is the only real choice over the 550. It is no faster though, just auto indexes. If you want a case feeder now or in the future, the LNL & 650 are the same price, well within $50 or so. The 650 comes setup for the feeder so you only need the bowl, $220. The LNL needs all the case feeder parts, so it's feeder is $320 +/-. Equipped the same, the 650 is only $50 more & a FAR BETTER machine. The priming system alone would make me buy it over the LNL. I have done about 12K rds on the 650 now, not single primer malfunction of any kind. I doubt many LNL guys can claim that.
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Bkreutz
US Veteran
Look what the Fedex man brought me today. 
, pretty much all setup except that I took the deprime pin out of the die and didn't install the primer feed system yet. I've got a few hundred primed cases to load before I start the full meal deal. It was a bit fussy to set up, the instructions leave something to be desired but it wasn't a big deal to figure out those parts that they neglected to mention. I will probably still use my Lee turret press for small batches I just couldn't keep up with 9mm though. Anyone have any ideas on minimizing the powder spillout when the shell plate indexes? The troubleshooting manual says I'm pulling the handle too fast but isn't that the idea?.
, pretty much all setup except that I took the deprime pin out of the die and didn't install the primer feed system yet. I've got a few hundred primed cases to load before I start the full meal deal. It was a bit fussy to set up, the instructions leave something to be desired but it wasn't a big deal to figure out those parts that they neglected to mention. I will probably still use my Lee turret press for small batches I just couldn't keep up with 9mm though. Anyone have any ideas on minimizing the powder spillout when the shell plate indexes? The troubleshooting manual says I'm pulling the handle too fast but isn't that the idea?.Attachments
First of all:
WELCOME FELLOW SMURF!!!
The 650 locks into place with each pull of the handle using a spring-loaded ball engaging detents under the shell plate. The spring is aggressive and causes the loaded cases to jump slightly sometimes resulting in spillage when the cases are smaller caliber, especially at high speeds. Some folks have had success by cutting half a coil from the ball spring, thus minimizing the distinct *click* and snapping action. There is also an aftermarket needle bearing and wave spring setup available that absorbs the energy and cushions the action.
I found that a hand technique can also minimize it without making any machine mod. When the filled case comes around to station 3 from the powder drop, place the tip of your left index finger on the top while you make the next pull to station 4, then take your finger off and place the bullet in the case. If you're adept with your left hand it's not hard to do and best of all - it's free!!!
There are a lot of You Tube Videos available on the care and feeding of your 650. Remember that this is the Internet and not all folks are particularly helpful. YMMV
Dillon 650 Powder Spillage Resolved - YouTube
Dillon 650 Powder Spill Fix - YouTube
If you decide to go for the bearing fix, Parts can be ordered from McMaster Carr for just a few bucks.:
Fix for the snapping shellplate on a 650 - Dillon Precision Reloading Equipment - Brian Enos's Forums... Maku mozo!
Your choice, modify the machine or modify your technique.
Either works well and congratulations on your purchase.
WELCOME FELLOW SMURF!!!
The 650 locks into place with each pull of the handle using a spring-loaded ball engaging detents under the shell plate. The spring is aggressive and causes the loaded cases to jump slightly sometimes resulting in spillage when the cases are smaller caliber, especially at high speeds. Some folks have had success by cutting half a coil from the ball spring, thus minimizing the distinct *click* and snapping action. There is also an aftermarket needle bearing and wave spring setup available that absorbs the energy and cushions the action.
I found that a hand technique can also minimize it without making any machine mod. When the filled case comes around to station 3 from the powder drop, place the tip of your left index finger on the top while you make the next pull to station 4, then take your finger off and place the bullet in the case. If you're adept with your left hand it's not hard to do and best of all - it's free!!!
There are a lot of You Tube Videos available on the care and feeding of your 650. Remember that this is the Internet and not all folks are particularly helpful. YMMV
Dillon 650 Powder Spillage Resolved - YouTube
Dillon 650 Powder Spill Fix - YouTube
If you decide to go for the bearing fix, Parts can be ordered from McMaster Carr for just a few bucks.:
Fix for the snapping shellplate on a 650 - Dillon Precision Reloading Equipment - Brian Enos's Forums... Maku mozo!
Your choice, modify the machine or modify your technique.
Either works well and congratulations on your purchase.
fredj338
Member
bluj is correct, cutting 1/3-1/2 coil slows the plate coming around enough to keep from throwing powder out. Many use the bearing but I found modifying the spring was all I need for my needs.
Bkreutz
US Veteran
Thanks for the tips, hadn't thought about the Smurf connection (I guess that makes me a defector from "Big Red"
). I think part of the problem is that I'm using AA#7 powder on this particular load of 124gr FMJ and the case is pretty full. Normally I load 115gr FMJ with W231 and the powder level is lower so it may not be a problem with that load. Thanks again.
). I think part of the problem is that I'm using AA#7 powder on this particular load of 124gr FMJ and the case is pretty full. Normally I load 115gr FMJ with W231 and the powder level is lower so it may not be a problem with that load. Thanks again.Ain't a thing wrong with Hornady Red.
The "Smurf" thing has been a running joke around here for awhile.
Often used by followers of the Richard Lee way in a not-so-flattering manner!
(blujax ducks and slowly backs away...)
The "Smurf" thing has been a running joke around here for awhile.
Often used by followers of the Richard Lee way in a not-so-flattering manner!
(blujax ducks and slowly backs away...)
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Bkreutz
US Veteran
I've tried the "finger on the case" method. It works but I sometimes forget to get my finger there in time so I ordered the thrust bearing (and washers) from McMaster Carr (I already had an account
). I'll leave the trimming of the spring as a last resort. Thanks again for the tips.
). I'll leave the trimming of the spring as a last resort. Thanks again for the tips.LoadEmUp
Member
Dillon does make good equipment. But count me as one of the lucky Hornady LNL AP folks with no primer malfunctions, actually I have 2 of them, and no problems with either one.
Overall I am impressed with the Hornady equipment (and warranty) and often recommend it.
I guess it is like why they make so many flavors of ice cream, not everyone likes the same flavor.
fredj338
Member
Dillon does make good equipment. But count me as one of the lucky Hornady LNL AP folks with no primer malfunctions, actually I have 2 of them, and no problems with either one.
Overall I am impressed with the Hornady equipment (and warranty) and often recommend it.
I guess it is like why they make so many flavors of ice cream, not everyone likes the same flavor.
The LNL is not a bad press, but there are quirks that for $50, I would rather not deal with. The priming is one, the case feeder is another. I am not a fan of the bushings either, PITA when they come loose & they do. My buddy can't get reliable feeding in the shell plate with his 223, etc, etc. So for $50, a fully loaded 650 is a bit better press. If you never want a case feeder, the LNL is a better way to go than a SDB or anything with Lee on it IMO.
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Bkreutz
US Veteran
Well I put the McMaster Carr thrust bearing in place, after a little fiddling to get the right tension it works like a charm, no more spilled powder, I'm liking this 650 a lot, I've done a few thousand rounds since getting it and it sure beats the old turret press. I'm lucky enough to go to a range that lets me pick up any brass behind the firing line (actually as far in front of the line as the push broom will reach). That cuts the cost of reloading in half (I can't believe the price of new brass, it's only half the cost of factory ammo at my LGS). Most people at the range I frequent don't reload so I always come home with more than I shot.
, I'm liking this 650 a lot, I've done a few thousand rounds since getting it and it sure beats the old turret press. I'm lucky enough to go to a range that lets me pick up any brass behind the firing line (actually as far in front of the line as the push broom will reach). That cuts the cost of reloading in half (I can't believe the price of new brass, it's only half the cost of factory ammo at my LGS). Most people at the range I frequent don't reload so I always come home with more than I shot.
Skip Sackett
US Veteran
Three SDBs, 2 XL650s later, I bought an older RL450 and did a partial conversion on it with powder hopper and primer upgrades.
I load my 223 on one of the XL650s. I deprime and resize on a single stage first. If I am using military brass for the first time, I use the Dillon tool to remove the primer crimp.
Once you get into the larger presses, honestly, it really doesn't matter which one you use or choose. Either can be run like a single stage if need be, while the RL550 is easier to do that with because of how the primer feed works on standard machines. I modified my XL650s to make it almost as easy.
From all I hear, the LNL-AP is a wonderful machine and should be considered when ever the discussion goes to "rifle cartridges on a progressive press".
The XL650 is more expensive but, you could get rid of your SDB for the cost you have in it (almost), get the XL650 and run everything on it. I can run 1000 rounds an hour of 45ACP with no problem at all on mine.
It all depends on what you need. Any one of the three are a good choice. Enjoy!
I load my 223 on one of the XL650s. I deprime and resize on a single stage first. If I am using military brass for the first time, I use the Dillon tool to remove the primer crimp.
Once you get into the larger presses, honestly, it really doesn't matter which one you use or choose. Either can be run like a single stage if need be, while the RL550 is easier to do that with because of how the primer feed works on standard machines. I modified my XL650s to make it almost as easy.
From all I hear, the LNL-AP is a wonderful machine and should be considered when ever the discussion goes to "rifle cartridges on a progressive press".
The XL650 is more expensive but, you could get rid of your SDB for the cost you have in it (almost), get the XL650 and run everything on it. I can run 1000 rounds an hour of 45ACP with no problem at all on mine.
It all depends on what you need. Any one of the three are a good choice. Enjoy!
Skip Sackett
US Veteran
Hey Alan!
There has been so much go on lately, I ain't sure anyone wants to hear all about it!
Work has been CRAZY, lost my Dad, Aunt and just this last week, my mother in law!
Getting ready to change jobs too, start a new business and all 5 kids are here with their spouses and most of the 11 grandkids!
Haven't shot in months, reloaded in longer than that and I have a new Mihec mould that hasn't even been out of the box yet!!!!!!
I'm telling you, it has been CRAZY 'round here!
There has been so much go on lately, I ain't sure anyone wants to hear all about it!
Work has been CRAZY, lost my Dad, Aunt and just this last week, my mother in law!
Getting ready to change jobs too, start a new business and all 5 kids are here with their spouses and most of the 11 grandkids!
Haven't shot in months, reloaded in longer than that and I have a new Mihec mould that hasn't even been out of the box yet!!!!!!
I'm telling you, it has been CRAZY 'round here!
Squarebutt
Member
Jayman - If you haven't decided, Brian Enos has an article on his site listing the pro and cons of each Dillon press to help his customers make up their minds. His site is loaded with good info, and he himself is extremely helpful on all things Dillon. Best of luck.
ruffbird
Member
RL 550B
I was also agonizing not long ago about which progressive to get after using my single stage for the last 15 yrs...
Decided after much research, videos on youtube & a friend who loves his RL 550B, to buy this one. I still need a couple of conversion kits to load .44 mag. & .45 acp., but have everything else to load for .32 long/H&R mag., .38/.357 & .45 colt.
I wanted an extra powder measure system, the one with the tool head, spare parts kit & magazine & pick-up tubes, & after considering the cost, that I may as well just buy an extra press kit as these items are included! Then I won't have to change the priming system back & forth. What a better excuse to have a 2'nd 550B & if I need parts, I'll have em!
My vote obviously goes to the 550B but I'm sure, based on what I know, that the other views on the different models are fantastic as well. You have a tough decision to make, but I think you will be happy with any of them.
Good luck, happy reloading, & keep the brass comin, it's fun....
Thankyou Dillon!
I was also agonizing not long ago about which progressive to get after using my single stage for the last 15 yrs...
Decided after much research, videos on youtube & a friend who loves his RL 550B, to buy this one. I still need a couple of conversion kits to load .44 mag. & .45 acp., but have everything else to load for .32 long/H&R mag., .38/.357 & .45 colt.
I wanted an extra powder measure system, the one with the tool head, spare parts kit & magazine & pick-up tubes, & after considering the cost, that I may as well just buy an extra press kit as these items are included! Then I won't have to change the priming system back & forth. What a better excuse to have a 2'nd 550B & if I need parts, I'll have em!
My vote obviously goes to the 550B but I'm sure, based on what I know, that the other views on the different models are fantastic as well. You have a tough decision to make, but I think you will be happy with any of them.
Good luck, happy reloading, & keep the brass comin, it's fun....
Thankyou Dillon!
OP
jayman9207
Member
Quick question about the RL 550B. I see that there is a version of the press that says "without caliber conversion". That just means that you have to buy whatever caliber conversion kit you need (i.e. .223/5.56) correct? Everything else that comes with the other RL 550B press is included. Other than dies (which I ordered over two months ago) and the caliber conversion kit I wouldn't need to buy anything else correct?
hAkron
Member
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2012
- Messages
- 231
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- 110
I stared on a single stage rock chucker, after 6 months I moved to a turret, 2 months later I bought a Hornady progressive. When I decided to move to a Dillon, I was already used to a press that would auto index, had a case feeder, and had enough stations to use a powder check, and to seat and crimp in different stations (if I choose to). The 650XL was the only way to go for me. There are guys who LOVE the 550 and can't imagine why you would need all of that other stuff (though a case feeder is now an option on the 550). Once you have everything you need, you probably won't notice the difference in price between the 650 and the 550.
Bkreutz
US Veteran
Except primers, powder, and bullets. (sorry, couldn't resist
)Seriously, I don't think there's anything else. Are you getting a deal on the bare bones 550? That's the only reason I can see for not getting it with the conversion kit already installed.
OP
jayman9207
Member
Except primers, powder, and bullets. (sorry, couldn't resist
Seriously, I don't think there's anything else. Are you getting a deal on the bare bones 550? That's the only reason I can see for not getting it with the conversion kit already installed.
I already have 3K in primers (3K more on the way), 2 lbs powder (4 lbs more one the way), and 2100 bullets (1000 more on the way).
Yes......I found one in stock and for $20 off the regular price which is why I ask. Not sure how long it would take to get the caliber conversion kit in along with a couple of other misc parts (i.e. strong mount) but I would think not as long as waiting for a new press that comes with the caliber conversion kit already installed.
OP
jayman9207
Member
I decided to buy it. Grafs has them in stock and on sale for $20 off right now. I ordered the caliber conversion kit and other misc things from Brianenos.com. Now I just wait for everything to come in. I am guessing my Dillon dies will be the last to get here even though I ordered them the beginning of June. It has been two months and a week but their lead times say 2-4 months. I am guessing the latter.
Bkreutz
US Veteran
When I go to Brian's site I always see the big "I have no Dillon parts" banner across the top. Not exactly sure what's going on but I've had luck getting stuff directly from Dillon. I've also had better luck calling Dillon on the phone and ordering it manually rather than ordering from their website. I'm starting to think that the phone sales staff can get orders through faster than can be done on the website. Hope you get your stuff sooner rather than later.
OP
jayman9207
Member
I ordered some misc supplies for my SDB from him and got pretty good turnaround. I am still waiting on my dies from Dillon which I am betting will take the longest to get here. I am just stoked I finally pulled the trigger (no pun intended).
OP
jayman9207
Member
Mister Post Man just dropped off something I didn't expect! I didn't expect these for a couple more weeks so ordering my new 550B last week will turn out to be perfect timing!
Bkreutz
US Veteran
Good for you. Must be good Karma
