Dirty Harry's cylinder rotation.........

Olskool , that is an out right lie, just because I went out the next day after seeing the movie and buying a model 29 doesn't make your statement true, or does it? well maybe it's a little true. OK I give up I went out right after the movie and bought a 29, my friend Mike bought a 29, my friend Rich brought a 29, so did Bret and so did John. I guess we proved your point, well played.

In 1973, I bought one too. I paid the rediculously high price at the time of $400. I really could not, should not afford it. especially on my student finances. But I was young and foolish. I still am amazed that I showed such good judgment!
I still shoot it, it's still in great shape.
Scott
 
I wanted one so bad, but was young, married, new baby boy and the rotten dealers had jacked the price all the way up to a ridiculous $500 on the rare one that did show up. Can you imagine paying $500 for a early 44 mag with cokes. Crazy I tell you. I had to live with a single Ruger Blackhawk in 357 for a long time.

And life goes on
 
Three comments.

First, it's not fair to say the director didn't know how a DA revolver works - it's pretty simple and Don Siegel wasn't stupid. He was however a director, and directors make movies for entertainment purposes, not gun training films.

It's a simple discontinuity error in the movie and the odds are the directors and editors were well aware of it, but just didn't care as they had other priorities.

It's a composite of two camera positions and you need to do it in separate takes so that a) you're not getting another camera in the frame and b) so you've got room to get the shot of Dirty Harry from the front. (Think about where the cameras have to be positioned for each point of view in the scene).

It's probable that they shot several takes from each camera position and then assembled the final scene with the best take from each point of view. It's also likely that Don Siegel noticed the discontinuity of Clint Eastwood doing a DA trigger pull after already cocking the hammer, but he obviously wanted the drama and effect of cocking the hammer, and/or the preferred Albert Popwell's performance in the hammer cocking take, while preferring Eastwood's performance in the DA trigger pull take.

The reality is that most people are not going to notice, and I watched the film at least half dozen times before I noticed that particular discontinuity, and then I was more interested in the revolver than the movie.

There are after all much bigger discontinuities in that scene. For example Harry walks through the spray of the broken fire hydrant and as he approaches the curb, the shoulder of his tweed jacket clearly has water droplets on it, yet at the end of the scene the jacket is dry. And of course despite also being supposedly sprayed with water, his Model 29 is also bone dry with no water drops visible on either side in the close up scenes. It either got wiped down and dried off between scenes, or he had a rubber gun when he walked through the spray. Rubber replica revolvers were used in the scenes in the Dirty Harry movies when a revolver was dropped, etc, as the Model 29s were needed in good condition for the close ups, so no Model 29s were harmed in the making of these movies.

Per the NRA, the producers and script writer planned on using a Model 29 with a 4" barrel but the Model 29 was obscure and while still cataloged by S&W at the time, was actually out of production as demand for it was almost non existent. The producers ended up using two revolvers, one with a 6 1/2" barrel and another with an 8 3/8" barrel that were assembled by S&W specifically for the movie. Demand went through the roof after the movie.

The 6 1/2" Model 29 used in "Dirty Harry" and "Magnum Force" was given to script writer John Milius - the man responsible for the .44 Magnum being used - by Clint Eastwood, and Milius has it on loan to the NRA Museum where it can be seen in the Hollywood Guns collection. They also have the Walther P-38 used in Dirty Harry.

For S&W fans the NRA Museum also has the Model 66 used in "Tightrope", the 639 and 659 used in "Reservoir Dogs", the Model 30 used in "Pulp Fiction", and Clark Gable's personal Registered Magnum on display.


Second, the "5 in 1" blanks originally used in the old westerns could be fired in a .38-40, a .44-40 or .45 Colt revolver or in a .38-40 or .44-40 rifles and carbines, thus the name "5 in 1". ( .45 Colt rifles and carbines were not available then, as the .45 Colt was not an original caliber in the Winchester rifles and Carbines.)

Sometime after WWII these brass blanks changed to preclude firing in a .38-40 chamber so they became "3 in 1" blanks but the "5 in 1" name still stuck. Once the .45 Colt started being produced in replica Winchester rifles and carbines, it became a "4 in 1" blank, but still retained the "5 in 1" name.

Modern "5 in 1" blanks are slightly re-profiled to allow use jin the .44 Special and .44 Magnum making them a "6 in 1" blank (7 in 1 if you count the .410 shotgun).

However, when Dirty Harry was filmed in 1971, these newer 5 in 1 blanks were not available. Fortunately, it's never been hard to make a blank for a pistol cartridge, and doing so poses no great expense or time factor for a major movie production (compared to a weekly television series) and as this was the approach taken, with "Dirty Harry". There was never a need to use a Model 25 revolver to stand in for a Model 29 to accommodate the 5 in 1 blank because 5 in 1 blanks were not used in the movie.

I think the association with movies and the 5 in 1 blank, that did not at the time accommodate the .44 Special or .44 Magnum, is what has led to this idea that a Model 25 was used. That at least makes more sense than the rumors that it was a Model 57 in .41 Magnum.

If you watch the "do you feel lucky" scene near the end of the movie with Andy Robinson you can see the ".44 Magnum" marking on the barrel clearly showing that the revolver is indeed a Model 29.



Finally, if you want to start arguments about Dirty Harry movies, bring up the scene in "Magnum Force" in the indoor target range where Harry states "I use a light special. With a gun this size and weight it has no more recoil than .38 out of a .357."

Some folks will say that was just his load for fast shooting in the upcoming match while others claim it meant he carried .44 Special, not .44 Magnum.
 
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I was a teen working at an LGS in the 70's when the movie Dirty Harry came out. Wasn't long before all M29's were allocated and in order for a dealer to get one, they had to order a certain number of M10's, 12's, 15's, etc. IIRC, this was also the era of S&W branded ammo and leather, and that was also part of the conditions of allocation.
 
I heard at the time of the movie smith & wesson sales on the 44 was way down, but after the movie they couldn't keep up with the demand.
You heard right !
The movie came out in 1971 , I had been looking to buy a handgun as I turned 21 late that year and could buy one.
It was late 71 or early 1972 , I was asking about a Ruger Blackhawk that was in local dealers display. It had been there over a year .
The dealer said since Dirty Harry came out no one was interested in a Single Action or a 357 magnum. " I can sell every S&W Model 29 I can get my hands on, but I can't give away that Ruger....I had $75.00 cash in my jeans, pulled it out and he took it ! The price tag was marked $125.00 . That's how much that movie affected sales for handguns for a few years .
All of my friends just had to have 44 magnums , a few bought Super Blackhawks, but it had to be a 44. That movie was something of a game changer.
I still have my 357 Blackhawk , alas , most of my friends do not have the 44's anymore.
Gary
 
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The truth needs to be told, that is not a Model 29, it is not a 44 Mag. It is a Model 25 in 45 Colt. Oh, sure, they had 2 model 29s on the set but all the action shots were with a Model 25. The reason, no 44 mag or 44 special blanks were avaliable a that time. All the hollywood movie makes had access to piles of 45 Colt blanks, all those cowboy movies required them.

Not this again, this has been beaten to death. John Milius, the screenwriter and quite the gun guy, has put this internet rumor to bed, just do a search of this forum for more info. Ouch.

Got my own 29-2 6.5" in 1978 due to the movie-guy I bought it from didn't know much about handguns by his own admission. He bought it because of the "Dirty Harry" movies lol. After 3 rounds of full bore ammo he was fed up with it. I offered him $350, he followed me to the bank and the gun with both cardboard and woodend boxes was all mine lol. Stupid me, I sold it when I left Arizona in 1984 to a friend of mine that still has it.
 
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Other questions --
Why doesn't Harry simply reload before approaching the wounded man?
Why does Harry turn his back on the man without ensuring that he doesn't have another weapon concealed somewhere?

And probably most important, why does Harry walk through spraying water without making any attempt to protect the revolver from getting wet?

The "director" said to do it that way!!!!;)
 
Finally, if you want to start arguments about Dirty Harry movies, bring up the scene in "Magnum Force" in the indoor target range where Harry states "I use a light special. With a gun this size and weight it has no more recoil than .38 out of a .357."

Some folks will say that was just his load for fast shooting in the upcoming match while others claim it meant he carried .44 Special, not .44 Magnum.

In an interview, Mr. Eastwood stated the script read "a special light load", but he flubbed the line and it stayed in the movie anyhow.
 
After all these years by you, some of the most knowledgeable movie goers in the universe, I can't believe your prevailing thoughts are that "Dirty" refers to the nice black man as "punk" ??

Clearly he says: "Well do ya BUNK" ? I expect Harry knew "Bunk" from some other fracas or two that had taken place in the past.

You will have to turn up both hearing aids, like I did, to hear plainly what he says, cause he still had some un-masticated weiner in his mouth.

Other thing I noticed, if the D-man was using a 27,29,34,54, or a Governor, it makes no difference. There would have been no need to worry about "blanks", cause Mr Dirty Harry Callahan was making the "kar-sheeg" sound by mouth. You can easily see the hot dog crumbs spout from his mouth on each shot.
 
...I bought my 29-3 in the 1990s at a gun show...guy wanted $325...I offered $275...and he took it!...still has the best double action pull I've ever experienced on any revolver...
 
I read somewhere once prior to the movie 'Dirty Harry' there were something like only 2000 mod 29s sold world wide - and post Dirty Harry the number was 200,000 +/-

No idea of the numbers, but you have to say that the Dirty Harry movies sold a lot of model 29s for many years. Not many of the .44 owners really need that kind of power. I know that I have never really needed one, but it was the first Smith revolver I bought and I have acquired several more since then!

But, they are fun!
 
I have never owned a 29, I have had 27,57 in the wood presentation box and I made the wise decision to sell them, I am still sick. I have had all three barrel lengths 25-5 again made another wise move to sell them. and now have another 25-5, now I have two first year 28s and had 696 no dash, made a wise move to let it go, and untold amount of other 38s and 357s. several super blackhawks. maybe I will find the right 29 and have the good sense TO KEEP IT!
 
The truth needs to be told, that is not a Model 29, it is not a 44 Mag. It is a Model 25 in 45 Colt. Oh, sure, they had 2 model 29s on the set but all the action shots were with a Model 25. The reason, no 44 mag or 44 special blanks were avaliable a that time. All the hollywood movie makes had access to piles of 45 Colt blanks, all those cowboy movies required them.



If it was a .45 Colt, it was a custom job. That was well before the 25-5.
 
In an interview, Mr. Eastwood stated the script read "a special light load", but he flubbed the line and it stayed in the movie anyhow.

It's been many years since I last watched Magnum Force but I seem to recall that when held at gunpoint in the car Harry is asked why he carries the .44 (it's too bloody big for the badge) and his reply is along the lines that "...the .357 is too light and I've seen a .38 bounce off a car windscreen".

I may have got it he wrong way round but that's my recollection.
 
I find it more interesting that in some movies he is right handed and in others left handed.

Wonder which he preferred, and if it was his decision for each movie.
 
The truth needs to be told, that is not a Model 29, it is not a 44 Mag. It is a Model 25 in 45 Colt. Oh, sure, they had 2 model 29s on the set but all the action shots were with a Model 25. The reason, no 44 mag or 44 special blanks were avaliable a that time. All the hollywood movie makes had access to piles of 45 Colt blanks, all those cowboy movies required them.

There really needs to be a sticky for this. The truth be told, these internet and gunrag "theories" that the guns were not Model 29's is a major steaming pantload. One Hundred PerCent total B.S..They were guns built in Smith & Wesson's tool room/ service department especially for the movie from parts in inventory and then shipped to a dealer in California. If you PM Doc44, he can tell you when they were built and shipped, who the dealer was. I sometimes wish that we could reflash some folks memory to get rid of things of this nature just the way Tommy Lee Jones did in "Men in Black". Incidentally, how tough do you think it was to make .44 Special/Magnum blanks even back then.

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Bruce
 
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Other questions --
Why doesn't Harry simply reload before approaching the wounded man?
Why does Harry turn his back on the man without ensuring that he doesn't have another weapon concealed somewhere?

And probably most important, why does Harry walk through spraying water without making any attempt to protect the revolver from getting wet?

Simple:

1. Reloading would have ruined the entire scene, and made the question of 5 versus 6 shots irrelevant.

2. He's Dirty Harry, no bad guy is going to shoot him in the back.

3. It's a rubber gun when he walks through the water. I'm actually more impressed with his amazingly fast drying sport coat. I'm guessing there was a fair bit of time between the fire hydrant take and the final takes next to the bank.

4. In general you have to understand that it's a movie made for entertainment, not a documentary or training film.

On a movie set there's one person whose job is "continuity". That's the person who prevents, say, a character wearing a hat in one shot, then a split-second later shown with no hat on. What you're seeing is slack work by the person in charge of continuity. In Shot #1 he cocks the hammer; in Shot #2 he starts with an uncocked hammer and fires DA.

Probably not.

The continuity person and/or the firearms consultant most likely pointed out the problem with selected takes, and most likely the director said "I like those takes anyway, so we're going to use them". Directors are normally concerned with many things other than total accuracy in the portrayal of firearms. In some cases, it's just done purely for dramatic effect. I've lost count of how many times I've had to watch someone cock a 1911 to intimidate someone, after that pistol had already been fired. Even summing it wasn't being carried in Condition 1 in the first place, it's a completely gratuitous cocking event. But it adds drama - for those of us who are thinking that's just wrong.

The reality is that unless the error is incredibly glaring the general audience won't notice, and least during the theater screening where they paid an admission.

Watching old movies on DVD where you can re-watch and pause scenes gives everyone a wonderful ability to be the movie equivalent of a Monday morning quarter back.
 
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There really needs to be a sticky for this. The truth be told, these internet and gunrag "theories" that the guns were not Model 29's is a major steaming pantload. One Hundred PerCent total B.S..They were guns built in Smith & Wesson's tool room/ service department especially for the movie from parts in inventory and then shipped to a dealer in California. If you PM Doc44, he can tell you when they were built and shipped, who the dealer was. ../

/...Incidentally, how tough do you think it was to make .44 Special/Magnum blanks even back then.

Agreed. It's been well documented where the revolvers came from.

People also put way too much importance on 5 in 1 blanks. It's one thing to have 5 in 1 blanks in a run of the mill western, or a weekly TV series where the production costs were low and where the details just were not that important. It's something else entirely when it's a big budget production where the firearm used is a key piece of the story line.

And as noted, it's neither hard nor expensive to make a .44 Special or .44 Magnum blank cartridge - not now, and not then.
 
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