Disappointed in S&W

[Sabre03]

I find the answer from S&W interesting and not what I have come to expect from US gun manufactures; here it is:

I purchased a new in the box, unfired, 1981 S&W Model 36 from a local gun store; the gun came in the mint original box will all documentation , even the 1981 warranty card. Anyway, I found that with a little pressure the cylinder would rotate clockwise when closed with the hammer down. I contact S&W customer service and explained the situation and they said they would "take care of it" and provide a shipping label to return the gun. Here is what the customer service representative sent me, fully aware of the date of manufacture:

Hello Mark,

I just put an order in for a pre-paid, pre-insured FedEx return label. Please allow around 5 business days for delivery. Please follow the instructions that will be included in the package. Include a letter with your contact information and a description of the issue. We stand behind our products and will make this right for you.

Regards, Steve
Customer Service
1-800-331-0852 Ext. 2905
http://www.smith-wesson.com


A few weeks later I get an invoice from S&W asking that I pay $83 to authorize the repair. I contacted them and the same guy that said he would take care of it now says that S&W did not offer a life time warranty until 1989 and since my gun was manufactured prior to that it wasn't covered. The interesting part is they admit that the gun is unfired and that the problem is cause by a manufactures defect.

I probably shouldn't have expected anything different, but having been a loyal S&W customer for 35 years and the owner of 13 of their handguns I was a little disappointed. I have come to expect American gun manufactures to stand behind their product and have had great luck with Colt, Ruger, Rock River and Weatherby.

Am I wrong to expect this level of customer service?

 

[XTrooper]

Seems clear cut to me. There's no warranty on the weapon yet you still want them to repair it for free. When in hell did everyone decide that they were entitled to everything for nothing?

When I bought a used former Kentucky State Police Model 1076 that needed a new extractor and extractor spring, I was told I would have to pay for the repair because the pistol's prior government service invalidated the lifetime warranty. Instead of whining on an Internet forum about it, I paid the repair bill and received the repaired pistol back in short order.

As I see it, you have two choices. Either pay to have the revolver repaired or sell it and let someone do what's necessary.

BTW, refusing to do out-of-warranty repair work for free has NOTHING to do with "customer service."

 

[Sabre03]

Sounds like you should expect more from the people you do business with. This gun was unfired, not used, and the manufactured admitted as much, S&W also admitted that the defect was caused by them. They also made an explicit promise to repair under warranty knowing the condition and manufacture date.

If that is whining then I guess I am a whiner.

 

[Hunt200]

I don't think you are whining, if they admitted it was caused by a manufactures defect, I would be disappointed if I had to pay. Ask to speak to a supervisor.

 

[Maximumbob54]

Seems clear cut to me. There's no warranty on the weapon yet you still want them to repair it for free. When in hell did everyone decide that they were entitled to everything for nothing?

When I bought a used former Kentucky State Police Model 1076 that needed a new extractor and extractor spring, I was told I would have to pay for the repair because the pistol's prior government service invalidated the lifetime warranty. Instead of whining on an Internet forum about it, I paid the repair bill and received the repaired pistol back in short order.

As I see it, you have two choices. Either pay to have the revolver repaired or sell it and let someone do what's necessary.

BTW, refusing to do out-of-warranty repair work for free has NOTHING to do with "customer service."

+1, I can't even add to that to make it any better said.

 

[M29since14]

No question at all about this one. They should fix your gun. While it is kind of an odd situation, it IS a new gun and they made it. If it was shipped in a defective condition, they should repair it or give you a new, non-defective gun of the same type - THEIR choice.

 

[ken158]

I'm with XTrooper - S&W may have made it but the current owners did not make it. I will get you off the hook and give you 1981 retail and fix it myself!

 

[W.E.G.]

Did you still get free shipping?

 

[Pisgah]

Just curious -- have you tried putting a bit of oil down in the cylinder stop hole and working it a bit? It is just possible that a bit of foreign matter, or even rust, is preventing it from rising all the way, or limiting the spring's travel.

 

[Dave T]

I'm with XTrooper - S&W may have made it but the current owners did not make it. I will get you off the hook and give you 1981 retail and fix it myself!

The OP bought it brand new, unfired and in the box. He is the current owner. What the (expletive deleted) are you talking about?

If a company won't stand behind something they made and screwed up (warranty or not) they don't need any of my money. Maybe that's why I buy old, used S&Ws rather than new ones.

Dave

 

[ogilvyspecial]

Basically it boils down to stated Company Policy, which, when you consider that they'll cover defects back to 1989-90 is pretty darn fair in my book. On top of that you don't even have to be the original owner to get taken care of.

Seriously, you should'nt be too dissapointed by a Company that won't fix a 30 year old product for free, even if it's never been used.
30 years is 30 years..........

 

[Nightowl]

I think they should fix it. If it had been used, then no. But it was clearly an unfired gun. Years ago I had a model 28 that had a bad cylinder from the factory. It had only been fired once, the time the cylinder was discovered to be bad. Even though it was several years old, Smith replaced the cylinder.

 

[Pointblank2U]

Caveat Emptor!

 

[scooter123]

The way I look at it, in 1981 S&W was controlled by different owners and different people than today. Quite simply, IT IS NOT THE SAME COMPANY. Same brand yes, but an entirely different company. I think that you are expecting too much, especially since it's a late Bangor Punta vintage gun.

 

[msnden]

I think they should fix it. If it had been used, then no. But it was clearly an unfired gun. Years ago I had a model 28 that had a bad cylinder from the factory. It had only been fired once, the time the cylinder was discovered to be bad. Even though it was several years old, Smith replaced the cylinder.

Well said!! of course they should have fixed it, had it been used it would be a different story, but in this case the revolver should have been fixed. but, it is the world we live in. I would send a letter to S&W explaining your disappointment. maybe someone with some common sense will read it, jmop msn

 

[Retired W4]

I had a similar experience with Boker Knives. I even talked with the owner in person at the Blade Show here in Atlanta. The guy's a jerk. I sold all my Bokers and will never buy another one. New is new, and when new is defective the manufacturer should stand tall and fix it. I hope this turns out well for you in the end.

 

[GKC]

It depends on the policy in effect at the time your gun was made...unless a later policy supersedes it. For example, if the policy in effect when your gun was made was a one year warranty (for example) from the date of original purchase, then you have no valid claim. Not only are you out of the warranty period, you are not the original purchaser. Now, if S&W made the lifetime warranty that covers the handgun regardless of who owns it retroactive to all guns they had ever made, or back to a point in time that would have covered your revolver, then it would be covered...but if they put that policy in place in 1989 (or whenever) and for guns of that date and newer, then you are not covered.

The repair cost ($83) is very minor. I would pay it and be happy that they would agree to work on it. Some manufacturers won't even work on their older products, regardless of what you are willing to pay.

 

[Geronimo Jim]

How much would it has cost them to fix it? How many hard feeling have they created. Did they have to right not to fix it? Absolutely. Was it smart. Probably not. After many years in business, the best advertising is a happy customer.

 

[kkramer673]

I don't think a 30 year-old gun is "new". It may be unfired, but it's definitely not new. And if the poster had inspected the revolver's functioning before buying it, he would have detected the issue.

 

[65kaiser]

How much would it has cost them to fix it? How many hard feeling have they created. Did they have to right not to fix it? Absolutely. Was it smart. Probably not. After many years in business, the best advertising is a happy customer.

Ding... Ding.... Ding.... we have a winner!!!! Just common sense, good business practice.

 

[G-Mac]

The way I look at it, in 1981 S&W was controlled by different owners and different people than today. Quite simply, IT IS NOT THE SAME COMPANY. Same brand yes, but an entirely different company. I think that you are expecting too much, especially since it's a late Bangor Punta vintage gun.

Going by that logic, they should fix it.

When you buy a business, don't you buy its assets and liabilities?

 

[Sabre03]

As with most of the folks here I to believe it could go either way, that is why I said disappointed and not angry. I asked the sales rep to adjudicate it with his superior and he came back and said what the company position was; I promptly provided my credit card and thanked him for his effort.

I can afford it and it is a relatively minor cost, but it is not what I am used to when dealing with gun manufactures. I once bought a Weatherby Vanguard used and it grouped terribly, even after I glass bedded the stock, modifying the gun and voiding any hope of a warranty, the Weatherby folks promptly rebarreled the rifle, after chastising me for the bedding. I still have that gun today.

If interested here is what S&W says needs to be repaired:

Stop won't hold, replace cylinder stop and hand.

 

[billdeserthills]

Sounds like you should expect more from the people you do business with. This gun was unfired, not used, and the manufactured admitted as much, S&W also admitted that the defect was caused by them. They also made an explicit promise to repair under warranty knowing the condition and manufacture date.

If that is whining then I guess I am a whiner.

Wow,
That would make me a Whiner too!

 

[ExMachina1]

If that gun did not come with a lifetime warranty then why would you expect one? And anyway, even their current warranty policy states that it is only lifetime to the original purchaser.

Therefor, any way you look at it, the fault lies not with S&W but with the original purchaser who did not make sure the gun was good to go. S&W would have fixed it then, but he never gave them the chance.

I agree that it would be a good gesture to to do it for free, but you also have to figure in that it could become financially burdensome if S&W started doing warranty work on all their models of (old) guns.

EDIT: colt_saa's point below is good. i assumed that the OP bought this in "as new" condition. however, if the gunshop that he purchased it from received it from S&W back in 1981 then yeah, S&W should make good

 

[colt_saa]

I am not sure that all of the facts are on the table here.

Did the OP buy a new gun? Is he claiming to be the original purchaser at retail? If that is the case and the firearm has a defect in materials or workmanship then I would say that there is basis for S&W to fix this and I would approach them that way.

However if the OP purchased a Previously Owned Firearm it is a USED GUN. It does not matter what condition it is in. It does not matter what paperwork was in the box. It does not matter if the previous owner(s) fired it or not, it is just another used gun. Under this situation the OP has no basis to expect a free repair. The OP would not be the person to whom the firearm is warranted.

 

[K38Jim]

Do they have to do it - of course not. BUT, I still recall many years ago I bought a Remington shotgun. Every six months or so I would take it out of the safe and wipe if down. Each time I would get what looked like rust off of the barrel. No other guns and only on the barrel. The darn thing could have an oil film on it the size of Texan and I would still get the rust like film. After several years the bluing started looking thin in spots and generally nasty. The warranty was long expired. I sent a letter to Remington and they said that back then they had a problem with the bluing on some barrels and they would fix it under warranty, the warranty that had expired years ago! They did fix it and I am still talking about it. Something to think about is that the gun left the factory with the problem. Did they / do they have to fix it, of course not. But I would fix it if it was my company. Would I be mad if they did not fix my gun, no not really. Would I be happy if they did, OH YES. This happened over 10 years ago and I am still talking about it. That is inexpensive advertising.

 

[Sabre03]

There is really no way of telling; the gun shop said it was unfired but I don't remember them saying new. It could have passed from dealer to dealer for 30 years, but it is unlikely.

Couriously it came complete with everything including the warranty card which I filled out and provided when I returned the firearm. I even had to chuckle when the salary demographic question on the warranty card only had 2 choices over or under $10,0000 a year. Now I wish I hadn't filled it out because the gun is probably worth more as a package with the warranty card.

 

[no dash]

There is really no way of telling; the gun shop said it was unfired but I don't remember them saying new. It could have passed from dealer to dealer for 30 years, but it is unlikely.

Couriously it came complete with everything including the warranty card which I filled out and provided when I returned the firearm. I even had to chuckle when the salary demographic question on the warranty card only had 2 choices over or under $10,0000 a year. Now I wish I hadn't filled it out because the gun is probably worth more as a package with the warranty card.

More than likely, this is a used gun that was either traded in or sold to the gun shop in "new in the box" condition so it was then sold as new in the box. This does not mean new! This is still a used firearm. I am personally very tired of reading posts on this and other firearms forums whining about the big bad gun companies that don't give them a new gun or a free fix on a gun they bought second hand or used regardless of condition. Your 1981 model 36 was used and not under warranty. You state you are just disappointed, not angry. I say you should be neither and instead be happy that the company still has parts to work on a 30 year old weapon. If people want a full warranty with all the bells and whistles then they should not buy used guns. Stick to new from the factory and then you won't be "disappointed."

 

[pharmer]

Hey Sabre, your post count is 4, all in this thread. Welcome to the home of some of the most knowledgeable and cantankerous folks ever owned a sidearm. You acquitted yourself nicely in post #22 and that $80 you spent will yield a nice and "factory gone over " firearm. Enjoy. Joe

 

[Sabre03]

Thanks for the welcome. I don't know why I haven't spent much time here but I agree the folks here are knowledgeable and freely express their opinion. I don't wear my feelings on my sleeve; 23 years as a cavalry officer cured me of that.

I am not new to forums and have learned much from THR, 1911 Forum, Defensive Carry, the Firing Line and others. I will look to this forum more often in the future.