Disappointed in S&W

[turbo38gn]

There is really no way of telling; the gun shop said it was unfired but I don't remember them saying new. It could have passed from dealer to dealer for 30 years, but it is unlikely.

Couriously it came complete with everything including the warranty card which I filled out and provided when I returned the firearm. I even had to chuckle when the salary demographic question on the warranty card only had 2 choices over or under $10,0000 a year. Now I wish I hadn't filled it out because the gun is probably worth more as a package with the warranty card.

Welcome, It's always a pleasure to have a new member start off by slamming S&W for not repairing his used gun , out of warranty that he just bought. Seems like the few used guns I have bought always come with a "just a few rounds fired through it" or "never been fired"... Just picked up a new used gun today I bought, well, I spent 2 hours cleaning the barrel and cylinder.. still coming out black.... so much for only shot a few times..

 

[gr7070]

Going by that logic, they should fix it.

When you buy a business, don't you buy its assets and liabilities?

So you're saying when something is bought the contracts in place need to be honored. Like expired warranties should be recognized as expired and no longer applicable. Sounds about right.

An expired warranty is not a liability.

 

[Bullseye Smith]

First, 1989 has been a rule for years, the person that told you they would fix it could have been a new hire?????? OP didn't know about 1989 or the service person, So it seems that you got free shipment - if that is so they meet you half way. So pay to get it fixed and write it up as a learning thing.

 

[Sabre03]

turbo38gn, I apologize, I didn't realize that this forum was only for those people that consider S&W a company that can do no wrong. I will try to only post glowing reviews in the future.

I really like S&W and I own many of their products; will this stop me from buying S&W in the future, not likely. It does raise the risk of buying the products that I prefer, pre ILS, but I have been buying guns since 1979 and I will just have to take my chances knowing that I have no recourse with S&W even if they agree the gun is in new condition and the defect was caused by them.

Thanks for all the time providing your thoughts both positive and negative.

 

[turbo38gn]

turbo38gn, I apologize, I didn't realize that this forum was only for those people that consider S&W a company that can do no wrong. I will try to only post glowing reviews in the future.

I really like S&W and I own many of their products; will this stop me from buying S&W in the future, not likely. It does raise the risk of buying the products that I prefer, pre ILS, but I have been buying guns since 1979 and I will just have to take my chances knowing that I have no recourse with S&W even if they agree the gun is in new condition and the defect was caused by them.

Thanks for all the time providing your thoughts both positive and negative.

Ok, another twist of reality, very good. So you came here to slam S&W for not warrantying an out of warranty gun... you start off by asking what we think of that situation, we tell you some say yes some say no... Now, you don't like my stand and take your shot.. ok, thats fine but here is my response to that sarcascm, much like my first tongue in cheek. More BS, I'd be the 1st to share a dislike if it occurred and I thought it was helpful overall.. this was not, it was simply an attempt to give S&W a black eye for not warrantying an out of warranty situation where, no doubt , there was some miscommunication. Does that mean S&W must honor your out of warranty gun, no it doesn't. Where does a company draw the line.. when do they say no.. I suspect there is a detail or two missing here... and thats all I have to say.

Now back to your welcoming here, I do mean to say welcome, sorry how it began but... SH sometime, we move on from there. Hope to be more positive in the future, by the way did you share your story on the other Boards you frequent.. you know pass that valuable info around..

 

[kbm6893]

All I know is that i have sent in quite a few pre-1989 guns to S&W for repair, and I have never paid a dime, and I have never even bought a new S&W. One time, they added a free magazine to the package when I forgot to send one in with the gun. Technically, the company is in the right, but if the gun is new and unfired (how's that happen, by the way?), and they admitted a defect, they should fix it. Something tells me someone bought it, never used it, then sold it (I did that once with a Glock 26). Gun was still used when I sold it. is the $83 really worth them losing a customer who spends thousands on their products? Not to mention him passing along a bad word about them to his friends, or even on an internet forum!

 

[youngda9]

is the $83 really worth them losing a customer who spends thousands on their products? Not to mention him passing along a bad word about them to his friends, or even on an internet forum!

This about sums it up.

Manufacturer defect...manufacturer should make it right. It's as simple as that.

 

[nofishbob]

I am unclear on the issue of is this a "new" gun.

If the gun was shipped from S&W to the distributor, and then on to the dealer that sold it to the OP, I would consider it to be "new" and S&W is obligated to provide warranty service for however long it was when the gun was made back then.

If the gun was sold at retail and just never shot, it is used and no warranty would apply.

There is a difference between hoping that S&W will cover a claim that they are not legally obligated to in an effort to please a customer, and expecting that they must and then complaining when the letter of the warranty is followed.

Bob

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

How much would it has cost them to fix it? How many hard feeling have they created. Did they have to right not to fix it? Absolutely. Was it smart. Probably not. After many years in business, the best advertising is a happy customer.

Can't believe it took 18 posts to come up with the winna!!!!!!!!!

 

[jtmo3]

If you compare this to a car, you bought a Ford in 1980 and parked it in the garage. You never drove it. Lets say it came with a 50,000 mile OR 5 year warranty. Would you still expect Ford to fix it if you moved it out of the garage to clean and a wheel fell off? It was probably a defect from the factory? In 1980 S&W did not offer a lifetime warranty. They have no obligation to fix the gun now, fired or not. I believe back then their warranty was between one and three years.

OTOH, cs did say they would cover it. Maybe they should train their cs reps better from now on. Seems like your only option at this point is to pay the bill, get your gun back and write a letter explaining the situation to the president of the company. I've done this kind of thing before and you might be surprised at the response you're likely to get.

 

[turbo38gn]

Here ya go.... different situation, but the correct outcome..

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-revolvers-1980-present/179404-s-w-has-great-customer-service.html

 

[ET.]

I was a manufacturing rep for 20 some years before becoming a Realtor. I ran into this exact situation.

A homeowner bought a house with our product in it. The product was 15 years old. They wanted it replaced because our products in the stores had a lifetime warranty (to the original owner). I informed them that:
1) The product was sold with a 10 year warranty to the original owner.
2) Just because the new products in the stores have a lifetime warranty doesn't mean that it applies retroactively to all of our products that we ever sold.

They raised cane and told me I was inept & did everything they could trying to get the product replaced. They ended up threatening to never buy another product from us. I think they ended up just getting it repaired. They later called and wanted me to come look at the product & I just gave them the 1-800 # and told them it wasn't my job. You don't call someone names and then act like nothing happened. Anyway...

You might have had more luck if you had been the original owner & had it all of these years, but you just bought it & it didn't have a lifetime warranty. That seems to be cut & dry to me. The fact that the new guns have a life time warranty means nothing in this case.

...Then again the CS rep mis-spoke and told you they would take care of it. But what exactly does take care of it really mean. Now will they offer it back to you unrepaired if you refuse to pay for it? Man if I had told the home owner... "no problem I'll take care of it" that might have really screwed things up. Let me stop before I talk myself into taking your side...

 

[xray97]

Regardless of the warranty status I think S&W should repair the gun for free. If, as the poster stated, the company rep (Steve), knowing the date of manufacture, told him it would be repaired for free the company should honor that commitment. If they then choose to discipline Steve they certainly can.

 

[allglock]

IMO,at least 50% of people out there have no clue how to do their job correctly....So,that being said, I would hope that your gun even gets repaired correctly?
I personally would wait till it comes back,then decide who should pay. I for one, would have no problem paying for quality service!......But, the do do coming out of S&W these days, isnt worth two cents IMO.
S&W, and many others are digging their own graves..........
I long for the days when people actually cared.

 

[luangtom]

I look at this like I do when looking at Harley-Davidson motorcycles when I compare back to when AMF owned H-D versus now. No comparison. Two different companies. Same here. I even find it extraordinary that S&W will service any firearm sent in and honor a warranty on it, even if the current owner is not the original owner. Yes, I know it does not go far enough back to cover the OP, but to even honor a warranty for firearms over twenty years old is amazing.

I would say to pay the $83 to get it repaired and then register a formal complaint with S&W and send documentation to support the argument. It may not get repaid, but it will send a message to S&W and the OP will have his firearm in servicable condition. If one purchases an automobile as the second-owner, it does not classify as "new". As soon as this firearm left the store and another person purchased it, it becomes "used", whether fired or not.

 

[Brian41]

I think maybe some are mixing up warranty claims and concessions.
I worked for both GE and Amana years ago and both companies honored their warranties as written no questions asked. Once a product was out of warranty there certainly are cases when a customer service rep may decide to repair that item for free or at reduced cost as was free shipping in this case, those are concessions.

In this case S&W had no legal responsibility to honor a warranty as it was no longer in effect. They did provide free shipping and a reasonable repair cost regardless of the reason for the defect.
In this case S&W did make a concession although it wasn't enough of one in the OP's view. Perhaps through the luck of the draw another customer service rep and supervisor would have been more generous with concessions, who knows.

In my opinion S&W did right in this case as a concession and although free would have been nice the OP got a fair deal.
Perhaps he can go back to the selling dealer for help in the cost of the repair as they sold him a gun as new that didn't function correctly. Some could say they didn't check it out correctly and share some resposibility too.

 

[AZ Desertrat]

I would expect better service from them....when not satisfied....go for "more horsepower".....get a supervisor or above and let them know the situation....they don't want THEIR boss getting down on them for not servicing the customers to the best of their ability...go up the ladder!

 

[warrconn]

[The repair cost ($83) is very minor. I would pay it and be happy that they would agree to work on it. Some manufacturers won't even work on their older products, regardless of what you are willing to pay.[/QUOTE]

I agree. Try to get a shovelhead (or even an Evo) serviced at your Harley-Davidson dealership.

 

[no dash]

Can't believe it took 18 posts to come up with the winna!!!!!!!!!

You know, I could almost agree Geronimo Jim on his post too, except where does it stop? How long has Smith and Wesson been making guns? So if I go and by an 80 year old gun that is trashed, should they fix it for free under a warranty that does not exist? So this repair was fairly easy and cheap. What if it had more extensive and cost more? Would you and GJ still think fix it to keep a happy customer? They are running a business. What if they do fix it for free, then the customer posts on this or another forum that they fixed his gun even out of warranty when he bought it sight seen from a shop with a problem ( I think there is blame for the buyer here for not properly inspecting a gun he bought in person). Everybody on this forum would expect the same thing for every gun they have. The repair might be a cheap one, but if you multiply that minimal cost by hundreds, it adds up.

Just my second $.02 worth and MHO!

 

[turbo38gn]

You know, I could almost agree Geronimo Jim on his post too, except where does it stop? How long has Smith and Wesson been making guns? So if I go and by an 80 year old gun that is trashed, should they fix it for free under a warranty that does not exist? So this repair was fairly easy and cheap. What if it had more extensive and cost more? Would you and GJ still think fix it to keep a happy customer? They are running a business. What if they do fix it for free, then the customer posts on this or another forum that they fixed his gun even out of warranty when he bought it sight seen from a shop with a problem ( I think there is blame for the buyer here for not properly inspecting a gun he bought in person). Everybody on this forum would expect the same thing for every gun they have. The repair might be a cheap one, but if you multiply that minimal cost by hundreds, it adds up.

Just my second $.02 worth and MHO!

I'm with ya... I've typed out at least 3 responses today and had to delete them all....

 

[MotoShot10R]

Hmmm. I see validity in both sides of this. Out of warranty? Out of luck. Out of warranty but told that it would be, "taken care of"? I would want to know the exact definition of, "taken care of".

A few weeks later I get an invoice from S&W asking that I pay $83 to authorize the repair. I contacted them and the same guy that said he would take care of it now says that S&W did not offer a life time warranty until 1989 and since my gun was manufactured prior to that it wasn't covered. The interesting part is they admit that the gun is unfired and that the problem is cause by a manufactures defect.

Unfired weapon that was admittedly defective from the manufacturer? Now I am thinking they might want to just eat the cost to fix the pistol.
Heck, the OP owns how many firearms from S&W? It is just good business sense to eat a 20 dollar repair instead of losing someone as a customer who has spent thousands of dollars on products. It is just good business. Having said that, it would be foolish for S&W to just go fixing/repairing/replacing firearms willy-nilly. Surely that is poor business practice. So S&W should look at these occasional scenario's on a case-by-case basis.

In this case, I would just eat the cost if I were S&W.


Just my shiny two pennies on the subject.

 

[rmack]

i don't think it is reasonable to expect any company to warranty a product manufactured in 1981 in the year 2011, unfired or not.

 

[photoman]

Expecting S&W to repair an out-of-warranty gun for free is not right.

S&W not standing behind what their customer service rep promised is not right either.

 

[no dash]

Expecting S&W to repair an out-of-warranty gun for free is not right.

S&W not standing behind what their customer service rep promised is not right either.

Agreed on both counts, but the cs rep said "we will take care of it", that does not translate to for free. S&W did take care of it... for $83 and free shipping!

 

[blujax01]

i don't think it is reasonable to expect any company to warranty a product manufactured in 1981 in the year 2011, unfired or not.

Add ... and purchased second-hand ...

I can see where if the original purchaser has a warranty that states the gun has a lifetime warranty and proof that they are indeed the original purchaser, S&W should fix it. What I don't get and never will are the folks who buy guns sight unseen from who-knows-where, finds an issue (Like grips. Really - grips?!) calls Smith and Wesson and asks for (demands?) a free fix to make the gun like new and is "disappointed" when the request isn't fulfilled.

Someone in their management needs to stop this foolishness. Anyone who purchases anything second-hand should not expect any consideration from the original manufacturer, unless there is a paper trail and a warranty transfer is specifically allowed.

Read the Motley Fool about the current financial situation at S&W. While receivables are up, revenue is down. They are in trouble and practically giving away guns to try to pump up the volume.

 

[500 Magnum Nut]

OK, I buy a brand new Chevy pickup in 1972, then park it. 39 years later, I put in the battery, fill it up with gas and head down the street. I want some tunes and turn on the radio. Radio is dead!

So I head to the dealer and complain that this is a brand new truck and the radio don't work. I want the radio fixed for free (because it is still under warrantee).

I don't think the dealer will fix it for free. Nope.

 

[Maximumbob54]

This thread is killing me. This is yet another showing of what I feel is wrong with people today. It has already been said that it was bought as a used gun. Maybe it was new in box, but it was bought as a used gun. It comes from a time before the lifetime warrantee was offered. And we already know the lifetime doesn't apply to material before that statement. They would have to keep parts being made for everything they ever made and that is far and beyond impossible to still do and have a profit. This is unreasonable to me beyond comprehension. S&W as a manufacturer had to decide where to draw the line on what would be affordable to give lifetime coverage on and how much it was going to cost them. That factors right into the cost of a new gun from them. I would almost rather they went back to a two or three year coverage again and dropped the price of a new gun back down some. If you buy a gun and don't even test it at a range in two to three years then that isn't my problem. But the willingness of a manufacturer to offer a lifetime warrantee on a product almost baffles me. They know how to calculate a figure of what they think it will cost them to cover that. So all it does is add to the cost of everything they make. So it screws us all in the pricing instead of just the few of us that actually need something done. But no, this is yet another case of someone buys something and then wants to still get something for nothing.

 

[Big Foot]

The damage to S&W in terms of Public Relations in just one thread will give the OP is $83.00 worth and more...

 

[Sully]

It depends on the policy in effect at the time your gun was made...unless a later policy supersedes it. For example, if the policy in effect when your gun was made was a one year warranty (for example) from the date of original purchase, then you have no valid claim. Not only are you out of the warranty period, you are not the original purchaser. Now, if S&W made the lifetime warranty that covers the handgun regardless of who owns it retroactive to all guns they had ever made, or back to a point in time that would have covered your revolver, then it would be covered...but if they put that policy in place in 1989 (or whenever) and for guns of that date and newer, then you are not covered.

The repair cost ($83) is very minor. I would pay it and be happy that they would agree to work on it. Some manufacturers won't even work on their older products, regardless of what you are willing to pay.

BINGO!! Thats it in a nutshell.

 

[maryrose213]

If I were in your position, I would be upset too. The company stated that they would fix it free of charge and then went back on their word. I would be disappointed as well. I am sure that if they stated that their would be a charge then this would be a different complaint, if at all.