Do most police carry compacts or service models?

[Gorme]

"Stupid question" here...

Do police tend to carry service-size (4" barrel) .40s and 9s, or do they prefer the smaller compact models (e.g. 3" barrels). If service-size, why-- is it a matter of the larger gun having better accuracy / less recoil?

 

[Gorme]

"Stupid question" here...

Do police tend to carry service-size (4" barrel) .40s and 9s, or do they prefer the smaller compact models (e.g. 3" barrels). If service-size, why-- is it a matter of the larger gun having better accuracy / less recoil?

 

[Aegis]

Most LE agency's carry full size models as duty weapons. Compacts are usually authorized for off duty or detective, non patrol duties. My agency has a fair list of of carry guns but only 1 authorized type of ammo regardless of caliber, 9mm or 45 cal. (winchester Ranger SXT 147grn in 9mm and 230 in 45.)

 

[safearm]

I've been doing the research on police weapon types as my agency's investigations unit is being established. All of the major agencies that I have contacted (29 so far; 5 federal, 5 large cities, 19 highway patrol/state police/state narcotics) issue full-size, or in some cases medium size (Glock 19/23), weapons as the primary weapon. Of the 29, 8 issue a compact weapon, either as a back-up or for plainclothes, detectives, executive protection, etc.

 

[Bullman]

I just read an article written by Clint Smith, and one of the things he said in the article was if you ever needed a handgun to protect your life, you would want a full size gun to do it with. They are easier to shoot well, they carry more bullets as a general rule, longer sigth radius. As long as it is uniform carry you don't have to worry about how hard it is to conceal.

 

[Gorme]

Interesting feedback, thanks. Safearm, is the reasoning noted by Bullman why LE prefers the full size weapons? Also, I was surprised to see the Glock 19 not considered full size. Is a ~4" or 5" barrel the standard "duty size?"

The reason I'm asking all this is that I have a compact ccw and am considering purchasing a second one. I'm trying to decide if I go with another compact or a full-size, and thus am curious about LE's rationale for carrying a full size weapon despite the extra bulk.

 

[zercool]

LEOs don't have to conceal their duty weapon, so the full capacity, longer sight radius, larger mass, etc, aren't a hindrance.

"Duty size" generally means "full size", which translates to, yes, a 4"+ barrel.

NYPD gives their officers a choice of a Glock 17, S&W 5906, and one other option that I don't recall off hand. (All 9mm.)

All the agencies in my county use a Glock 22 (.40). NY State Police use the Glock 37 (.45GAP).

For off-duty many of them have the same concerns we do - concealability and comfort. Buddy of mine carries a Glock 26 off-duty.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

Old retired copper here, so I'll pitch in my for what it's worth on the subject.

Cops are just like everbody else. In any group you will have those who will jump on any bandwagon. Some will have the latest whiz-bang high-fashion state-of-the-art everything every time. Others will just carry what they are given (or required to buy).

Some like to shoot, and enjoy quality firearms, so they will equip themselves accordingly. Some don't really care about it, so they will equip themselves as required.

I've carried a handgun since the 1960's, and have been making holsters since 1972. Now that I am retired, I can actually add another piece to my collection and take an income tax deduction to have it! I love it!

Just another retired cop, gun-whore here! Most days: Kimber Pro Carry II, .45 ACP. Hot weather (no outer garment): Kahr P40 .40 S&W. Never far away: 30-year old S&W Model 37 Airweight Chief Special, plus my old Model 66 .357 4" duty gun. At home: Remington 870 12-gauge, 21 inch barrel. On the road: WW2 M1 Carbine by Inland Division of General Motors (Feb. 1943).

I'd much rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy. And I'd rather have a gun with me that ever have to wish that I had a gun with me!

Stay safe.

 

[norfdet]

My department seems to be in the norm in that they issue the Glock 17 to uniform and investigations had a choice between the 17 or 19, I picked the 19. Although when we issued S&W's, everyone had to have the 5946 and before that it was the 6906; they never could make up their mind!

Regardless of my duty weapon my off duty has almost always been a j-frame, so full size or compact never really mattered to me.

(I miss my 5946 pre-TSW most of the time!)

 

[940lvr]

Gorme,

First of all welcome to the Forum. Looking for the rational thoughts made by the administration of any law enforcment agency can be difficult. I say that because I have been in that line of work for almost 20 years. A better question is "what fits you?'. I am very fortunate and have a few options at work. My favorite is the 1911 I have issued to me. Big and heavy and hell but it is the most accurate pistol I have ever fired and I have complete confidence in it. For me it is worth the extra effort to conceal it. For whatever reason the Glock 22 is the one I shoot the worst. I shoot the Glock 23 (same size as the 19) better than the 22. It is a tossup between the Glock 22 and the 27. I can't explain why I shoot the 23 better than the 22, but I know that I do. I am fortunate that I am not forced to carry the Glock 22 because someone said it is a better gun. It stays locked up in my vehicle and I qualify with it once a year. I would just as soon not have it because it won't do anything that the 23 won't do better, for me anyway. All that really matters is what YOU shoot better. If that is a larger gun that requires a bit more effort to conceal, I would make the extra effort. For me, I shoot the mid sized Glock better than the full size but neither compares to my 1911 so that is what I carry daily. The notions that bigger guns are easier to shoot are good in theory, but you will never know what works best for you until you try it.

 

[MK]

Most the ones here in the Houston area tend
to carry the full size pistols, and usually
.40 or over. I haven't done a survey, but I
think quite a few carry .45's too.
I do know that a sheriffs deputy that I talk to
on the ham radio carries a .45, and he's stated
many times that that is what he prefers.
I think he prefers a Colt, but I forgot..

I saw a cop directing traffic a while back, and
he looked to be a fairly long timer, maybe a
Sergeant, and he was carrying two pistols.
And both looked like .45's, but I was across
the intersection so hard to tell.
He carried one on his right hip as usual, but
he also carried another one on his left front
that I assume he could grab fast with his right
hand. It was canted as I remember.
So anyway, we have serious crooks in this area,
and most police are carrying serious firepower.

Course, I haven't actually done a survey or
anything.. But I don't think you see many using
9mm in these parts anymore. Most are going with
the heavier stuff. Last I heard TDPS were using
357 SIG, but I don't know if that's still the
case or not. They liked it because it goes
through glass and car doors pretty well.
I wouldn't be surprised if many keep the small
pistols for BUG's, but most around here use
the big stuff for service pistols.

 

[hooter]

Originally posted by MK:


I saw a cop directing traffic a while back, and
he looked to be a fairly long timer, maybe a
Sergeant, and he was carrying two pistols.
And both looked like .45's, but I was across
the intersection so hard to tell.
He carried one on his right hip as usual, but
he also carried another one on his left front
that I assume he could grab fast with his right
hand. It was canted as I remember.
So anyway, we have serious crooks in this area,
and most police are carrying serious firepower.

The one on his left front side was more than likely a taser. Most departments have a policy stating you must wear the taser on your support side. If your gun and taser are both on your strong side you could grab the wrong one in a heated situation. It's faster and easier to deploy the taser when it's canted on your belt.

 

[3rd Gen Neal]

Most the ones here in the Houston area tend
to carry the full size pistols, and usually
.40 or over. I haven't done a survey, but I
think quite a few carry .45's too.
I do know that a sheriffs deputy that I talk to
on the ham radio carries a .45, and he's stated
many times that that is what he prefers.
I think he prefers a Colt, but I forgot..

I saw a cop directing traffic a while back, and
he looked to be a fairly long timer, maybe a
Sergeant, and he was carrying two pistols.
And both looked like .45's, but I was across
the intersection so hard to tell.
He carried one on his right hip as usual, but
he also carried another one on his left front
that I assume he could grab fast with his right
hand. It was canted as I remember.
So anyway, we have serious crooks in this area,
and most police are carrying serious firepower.

Course, I haven't actually done a survey or
anything.. But I don't think you see many using
9mm in these parts anymore. Most are going with
the heavier stuff. Last I heard TDPS were using
357 SIG, but I don't know if that's still the
case or not. They liked it because it goes
through glass and car doors pretty well.
I wouldn't be surprised if many keep the small
pistols for BUG's, but most around here use
the big stuff for service pistols.

No doubt on the serious crooks. I live here in Houston and there have been some disturbing crimes lately. I'm not LEO, but I work in a bleephole area and I have a CHL. I carry my 4516 w-extra mag, the more stopping power the better.

 

[safearm]

Gorme,
In the survey that I been doing, the full-size weapons have been the Beretta 8000 series, Glock 17/22/31, Sig P220/P226, HK USP/P2000, and S&W M&P. I labeled the Glock 19/23 as mid-size weapons, that size could also be assigned to the P229, which 6 agencies issue, and the HK USPc (1 agency). The true compacts are the Sig P239 (1 agency), and Glock 26/27/33/39, issued by 4 agencies.
In my survey, I did not attempt to determine the optional weapons allowed by various departments. For example, DEA issues the Sig P226/229, but recently approved the S&W M&P series for personal carry by agents. My survey only covered the issued weapons.

 

[MK]

Hummm. Maybe so. Sure looked like a .45 in the
holster though.
I checked around the web, and as far as I can
tell the standard carry for HPD is the Sig P226
in .40 S&W. I'm not sure if they can carry
others or not. I thought they could, but maybe
not.
The Harris County sheriff I talk to, I think he
can carry just about whatever he wants, within
their guidelines. So he carries the .45 being
that's what he prefers.
He said he has tried most of the others,
including the .40, but says he always goes
back to his .45.
BTW, it seems the TXDPS is basically using the
same model SIG, except in 357 SIG.
Ditto for Oklahoma Highway Patrol according to
the source I read.

 

[safearm]

Texas DPS issues the Sig P226 in .357 SIG. The current ammo is Speer 125 grain Gold Dot.

 

[Landric]

I've worked for a number of agencies and a couple of those have changed issue weapons while I was there. Here is the list of weapons I've been issued for patrol, in order from first to current:

-Beretta 92SB 9mm (and then later a 92F)
-HK USP40 Compact .40S&W
-SIG-Sauer P 226 9mm
-S&W 6946 9mm
-Glock 22 .40S&W
-S&W M&P40 .40S&W
-Beretta 96FS .40S&W

The Beretta 96FS is my current issue at my full-time agency. We are supposed to be going to the Glock 22 later this year, but I'm not sure if that change has survived the budget crunch.

I also work for a department part-time. I provide my own duty weapon for that department. At the moment I am carrying a S&W M&P45. I love the pistol, but I'm considering changing to a 4" Mid-Size version of the M&P45. I know its only a 1/2" difference, but the longer holster required for the full-size .45 is kind of uncomfortable when seated in a vehicle. The slightly shorter holster of the same make and model I had for my M&P40 didn't have that issue. I still have the holster for the M&P40, and the mid-size .45 fits nicely. So, I'm probably going to use that as an excuse to buy a M&P45 mid-size.

Off-Duty, I don't carry my issued weapon (not so much because its large, though it is, but because I really don't care for either the Beretta 96 or the .40S&W in general). If I've got to carry a .40, I prefer either a Glock or M&P. Its still my least favorite handgun cartridge, so I choose not to carry it off-duty. I carry either a HK P7 or Glock 36 off-duty. I would have gotten a M&P45 Compact instead of the Glock 36 if it had been available when I bought the Glock. The Glock works perfectly and conceals well, so I can't justify spending the money to replace it with the M&P45c to myself.

 

[MTS Cop]

NYPD gives their officers a choice of a Glock 17, S&W 5906, and one other option that I don't recall off hand. (All 9mm.)

QUOTE]

It's the Glock 19, S&W 5946 and Sig P226. I'd say the Glock 26 is the most popular off duty choice.

I think a full size duty weapon is also more intimidating. A perp staring down the business end of something that looks like a cannon is probably gonna think twice about trying something stupid. Bigger guns are just more scary. I'd rather have a perp piss his pants at the sight of my gun and give up then let him think he has a chance and I end up having to shoot the idiot.

 

[zercool]

Originally posted by MTS Cop:

NYPD gives their officers a choice of a Glock 17, S&W 5906, and one other option that I don't recall off hand. (All 9mm.)

QUOTE]

It's the Glock 19, S&W 5946 and Sig P226. I'd say the Glock 26 is the most popular off duty choice.

I think a full size duty weapon is also more intimidating. A perp staring down the business end of something that looks like a cannon is probably gonna think twice about trying something stupid. Bigger guns are just more scary. I'd rather have a perp piss his pants at the sight of my gun and give up then let him think he has a chance and I end up having to shoot the idiot.

Thanks for the correction - buddy just finished academy last fall and those are what I thought he had mentioned, but it's been a while.

There is something awful intimidating about staring the wrong way down a .45 barrel... it's about the biggest hole you never want to see.

 

[BUFF]

There is no real standard answer. Most medium-to-large U.S. departments issue a handgun, and some issue the full size to everyone, while others have a compact version of the same weapon to issue to non-uniform officers.

While I worked my department's detective division the first time (1995-2003), the department issued both S&W M-4006's and Beretta M-96 'Centurians'. The Beretta had a 4.5 inch barrel instead of the standard M-92 and -96 5 inch.

About 1/3 of my fellow detectives carried whatever they had been issued even though they were in plain clothes. It was usually a matter of economics (they couldn't see spending money on a smaller pistol), or they didn't want their own gun getting worn and dinged up, or they didn't know much about guns or care. A few carried a full size, personally owned weapon. Most of us carried a personally owned compact of some sort.

We are supposed to carry off-duty when we can. We adopted semiauto pistols in 1991, and for a long time there were no good, reliable compact semiauto pistols chambered for 9mm, 10mm, .40 or .45. A lot of guys that worked uniform duty carried their same full size duty pistol off duty. A bad situation then evolved: Deputies got tired of carrying a heavy, full size pistol concealed in shirt sleeves and many deputies began not carrying off duty. They sometimes left their guns in their cars, instead, where many were stolen.

The situation is different, now. Most full size guns carried by U.S. cops are also available in a compact version in the same calibers. A great idea, as then the off duty and bigger on duty guns work the same way. Still, a lot of cops aren't gun fans, don't expect trouble off duty and still don't carry then.

In an effort to encourage our off duty deputies to carry more often, my department reauthorized the carrying of 5 shot J frames again, having banned ANY revolver years ago. An excellent idea. I never quit carrying my M-642 off duty or as a second, concealed back-up gun on duty.