Do You Completely Trust Semi-Auto Pistols?

Well Doc, if the plastic pistols melt in a hot car don't you think all of the car's plastic interior pieces would also be melted? :D

Melt might be the wrong word, I believe the reason my plastic sights and mag button came off the steel parts was differences in thermal expansion and a slight softening of the plastic. I have had plastic auto interior parts crack in extreme cold weather.
 
Any Gun can have problems. I prefer Revolvers. That's all I carry. I may shoot a semi auto at times but, not lately.
 
Magazine Springs Weakening

Mechanically, there is more to go wrong with an auto than a revolver. However, if something does go wrong with a revolver it's more likely to be catastrophic, i.e., explode in your hand. With an auto, in an emergency situation you have to consider, is there a round in the chamber? Is the magazine properly seated, or in my haste to get the gun out did I accidentally hit the mag eject button? Does it have a safety, is that on? Will it feed the next round, or eject the spent case properly? Lot's of moving parts and at any time one of them can go a little awry and cause an issue. A revolver, in an emergency situation, is simple, pull the trigger and as long as the cylinder aligns with the barrel and the hammer strikes the the primer, it will go bang. Both of those issues are ones you can determine well in advance of when you need the gun to work if they will be a problem.

All that said, today's autos at least are generally excellent and reliable. I've had most of the issues I described happen to my Glock when practicing with it (except for the safety, it doesn't have one), but if I were to need it I feel I can rely on it. One other thing to consider is if you want a gun that will sit loaded for months at a time, then if it's an auto you'll at least need to pull the bullets out of the magazine periodically, switch out with another mag. Leaving them in the mag for extended times can affect the spring, and that can lead to feed problems. So for sure, if it's a gun that just sits in a drawer for months on end, and you don't want to pay any attention to it, then a revolver is better option for that reason if no other. But if it's a carry weapon that you will handle regularly, take to the range and clean it periodically, keep it maintained, then an auto is a perfectly fine option, despite all that I've pointed out.
Its been so many-years ago___maybe fifty! But an army MP company all put loaded magazines (Model 1911) and locked them up. A year later returned and put those magazines in their pistols and fired them with out a single problem.
All quality springs (Not just weapons) will be fine for a long time.
As for trusting a semi-auto___How about my M1 rifle in the marines?
A quality semi-auto properly maintained you can__and I do__trust my life on.
Years ago, 38 spl mandated__likely during a scuffle on the streets
(I'm retired cop) I must have gotten a dink on the cylinder of my revolver. Luckily, it was on the police range I found the cylinder would not rotate after the second shot.
Revolvers and pistols are mechanical things__ it can and may well happen.
Keep'em inspected, checked (again) and lubed. We make some great firearms in America. (Check those buried Brits/ 1776)
I trust my two Shields and my made in NH Sig P320.
This kind of discussion will continue forever.
Poli Viejo
 
If we all suddenly agreed that neither platform was better or worse than the other, that would still leave us with the DUD ROUND. If all systems work perfectly and you have a dud, which then would you rather have? A tap, rack, bang or just a BANG? We have had lots of folks here that have been successful in gun fights. None can do a T,R,B as quick as someone pulling a DA revolver again. Seems like just that has to count for something. Forget the mechanics and concentrate on having to come up with a life saving shot in tenths or hundredths of a second. I have never seen anybody that could, under timing, clear a bad round as fast as pulling a DA trigger. This is multiplied when the gun requires being racked again just to be able to fire. At least a DA/SA auto will give you another whack at the dud. Striker fired guns, not so. Just something to think about. I have a few hundred shooters that will readily concede a DA or DA/SA is better for surviving a bad round. We have a Folger's coffee can 2/3 full of ammo that did not go bang on my range. If you shoot a lot, you see it a lot.
 
In an extended firing session , the magazine would melt into the grip . He said they would end up using screwdrivers and pocket knives trying to remove them . They literally ripped the mag to shreds.

:rolleyes:

If the grip was hot enough to melt were they holding them with asbestos gloves? I mean how did they keep from scorching their hands while firing?

Enquiring minds and all that.
 
Now this was an interesting thread. I read it all with great interest. Both sides have interesting observations, and a lot of it is fact, experience and personal stories, except the magazine melting in the grip and the screw driver story. Cowboy4evr that was one funny story. That was right out of ABC, NBC, CBS, MSNBC, CNN newsrooms.
I have had a few failures with my revolvers only because I was testing different hot loads. Primer bulges, split cases and dirt build up.
After that I settled on my favorite loads and have never had a problem with any of my revolvers. Half the time I carry my trusty S&W 686-4 2.5 inch 7 shooter. It is one of the most reliable guns from the stable.
My Colt Defender is my primary carry. Only problem I had was with the shell extractor, so I had it fixed.
If I had to run out of the house and not go back ever it would be my S&W 686...or my TRP... maybe my Glock. No the 686 6"... TRP, Glock, ....... and so it goes with us gun owners.... my AK for sure. AR...
 
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As someone who used to work on revolvers (and still do very, very occasionally) I'm always amazed at their reputation for being simple. The action of a double action revolver is actually quite complex.

When the trigger starts to move, the trigger needs to lower the cylinder stop so the cylinder will rotate, it also needs to release the cylinder stop at the correct time to stop the cylinders rotation. The trigger also causes the hand to lift, rotating the cylinder and the hammer to start going back. The hand needs to lock the cylinder into alignment with the barrel and hold it there while the hammer is released and falls. Then, the trigger and hammer must return to allow the whole process to repeat.

In short, if you have an issue with a revolver, there are only a couple of fast fixes: a yank on the hammer spur may release a cylinder locked by primer flow and whacking the ejector rod on something may eject a stuck case. Beyond that, if your armorer doesn't make house calls, you gots problems.

Yes, I do have a story about how a ~70 year old revolver and 30 year old ammo saved someone, but intervention by a higher power was obviously involved when all the circumstances are considered. I've got more stories the other way.

By comparison, the auto pistol is the next best thing to a stone axe. The common stoppages can be readily cleared by the user.

RW-the closer the bullet profile resembles FMJ, the better the feed. Remington green box (not Golden Saber) frequently will feed in guns that will only feed hardball/fmj. Federal C9BP works well also.
 
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If we all suddenly agreed that neither platform was better or worse than the other, that would still leave us with the DUD ROUND. If all systems work perfectly and you have a dud, which then would you rather have? A tap, rack, bang or just a BANG? We have had lots of folks here that have been successful in gun fights. None can do a T,R,B as quick as someone pulling a DA revolver again. Seems like just that has to count for something. Forget the mechanics and concentrate on having to come up with a life saving shot in tenths or hundredths of a second. I have never seen anybody that could, under timing, clear a bad round as fast as pulling a DA trigger. This is multiplied when the gun requires being racked again just to be able to fire. At least a DA/SA auto will give you another whack at the dud. Striker fired guns, not so. Just something to think about. I have a few hundred shooters that will readily concede a DA or DA/SA is better for surviving a bad round. We have a Folger's coffee can 2/3 full of ammo that did not go bang on my range. If you shoot a lot, you see it a lot.

^^This.

Any gun I would trust with such a thing, would be a gun that I've shot so much that I understand it, what ammunition it runs and what it will not, and what dumb things I can do to make it not run.

The tiebreaker, for me, is the simplicity of the revolver.

Striker v SA v DA/SA in pistols is tighter. There are drawbacks and advantages to each. I would personally give it to striker-fired, mostly because I think it's a lot more likely that a person would fail to operate the gun properly, than encounter a dud round, and it's easier to prepare against the misfire (regular cleaning, extensive testing, and examining your ammunition before you load it).
 
I've had 4 M&Ps (including a compact 22) with 1,000s of rounds through them and 1 malfunction. So yes that can have problems...

Do I trust them? You betcha...

PS- I like wheel guns too...;)
 
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IDPA

Having spent a large part of my career flying in mechanical devices built by the lowest bidder, all my faith in perfection went to the lord, and the confidence to complete the mission went to fellow airmen.

For those that believe having a revolver solves the reliability problems, statistics from IDPA major matches shows that breakage and serious stoppages happen at a higher rate to revolvers than to semi autos. Remember, this is a couple hundred rounds or more in a match, and a serious stoppage is one that cannot be cleared in a few seconds. While semi autos tend to misfeed more often, most problems can be cleared in seconds, which is why we practice malfunction drills.

If you've never had a gun malfunction or break, you just haven't shot enough major matches. I had a class win wired at a state-level match until I punched the whole yoke assembly out of a Modell 66 and DNF that stage. Went to the backup revolver and finished the match, but could not make up that stage.

I've never shot a major IDPA match, but when I used to shoot IDPA at a couple local clubs I saw many more malfunctions with semi-autos than with revolvers. Most could be cleared, sometimes not. I only recall a couple revolvers failing. But it is true, when a revolver fails, normally it is impossible to bring it back into action, because a part has broken or come loose.

I had the trigger stop come loose in a snubby Model !5 once in IDPA, tying up the gun. "Six for sure," all the guys joked, as I went and got another revolver to finish the match. But that was my own fault. NEVER leave a trigger stop in a revolver intended for self-defense!

Clearing a stove-pipe jam in a semi is not too hard, but I've seen a lot of folks struggle mightily with a double feed malfunction. Sometimes takes a good while to clear.

I carry a 442 revolver, without a lock, without a trigger stop, without replacement reduced power springs, with factory ammo that I know will work.
 
smithman 10,

I'm not trying to be insulting, smart aleck, or rude, but how do you know that ammo will work? I understand what you are saying, because I also use ammo that I have found to be very reliable and well made. But every round we fire has some potential to be a dud in some way, somehow. Stuff just happens, even on an assembly line that has the finest quality control measures in place. It's not something I really like to think about, but it is reality. The only real blowouts I've ever experienced happened with a nearly new tire. So I try hard not to be too relaxed while driving.

We all just have to be prepared to hear a click or have some other kind of malfuntion, and that's just life. That doesn't mean I don't trust my EDC weapons and the ammo I use in them. I do, but I also recognize that nothing is 100 percent 100 percent of the time. I know where you are coming from and I agree with what you say. But at least from my perspective and experience, there can always be a problem, sooner or later. That does not keep us from expecting things to work well. I don't lose much sleep over this, but I do try to make sure that I do my due diligence to reduce the possibilities of problems with my EDCs to the very bare minimum! It takes a bit of time to check my carry ammo through the chamber gauge, but I feel it's worth it for my own peace of mind. That's still no guarantee there is powder in the brass or that there is not something wrong with the primer, but at this point, I haven't started putting each round on a scale to make sure there is powder in the case! A guy only has so much time. I just don't intend to be so surprised when there is a failure to fire that I lock up wondering, "what the bleep!" Pull that trigger again or rack that slide and get back in action as quickly as possible!
 
It's not really because sooner or later you GLOCK will malfunction.

And this


Sounds like you won't keep a gun that's not perfect.

I have complete confidence in my carry gun. Bad ammo? That's more of a possibility.
It's one reason I carry a Glock. I believe they are better than any other polymer gun. Others will disagree and that's okay. It's not their backside.

And yes, I have gotten rid of guns that were unreliable.

But it really doesn't matter because I often carry a second gun. What are the odds of two guns malfunctioning? Pretty rare I think unless I'm doing something wrong.
 
Ammo that works

Hey kthom - I use any and all of the factory 158 grain LSWCHP +P offerings. In my experience I've never had any FTF. That's close enough for me to say I know it will work, in practical terms. Of course nothing in life is 100%.

If a round is a dud, pull DA trigger for the next one.

That's why I like the revolver.
 
I am with you on that ammo. I have used various brands of it, in fact, since the stuff first hit the streets and have never had an issue with any of it. I have some that I've owned for a long while since I only shoot it at first to make certain it hits where I expect it to hit and occasionally fire the rounds that have been carried in the cylinder for a good while before range shooting just to remember how it feels and then replace it with fresh out of the box rounds. I have to say that the LSWCHP +P round in .38 Special is my all time favorite load for serious social encounters!
 
As some of us have pointed out, both semi-autos and revolvers can fail, even with proper maintenance. The difference is, that with practiced immediate action drills, most semi-autos can be cleared and get back into the fray. When a revolver lays down, they are not so easily returned to functioning and it's best to reach for a BUG if you have one.
Yep. On the rare occasion that I carry a .38 belt gun, I carry an Airweight.38 as a BUG.
 
A Glock 18 went around 600 rounds of continuos full auto fire before the plastic guide rod melted. It was replaced with a steel one and went to the 900 round count before a trigger pin began melting through the frame (it was still functional in single shot mode)

Anyone who thinks a range session or a hot trunk will melt a Glock has been drinking too much koolaid

[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ub4OswUhLwo[/ame]
 
As reliable as modern semi autos are, there are still things they won't do. Get an old jacket. Try shooting your handgun inside the pocket. Probably get one shot out of the auto. Revolver works fine. So walking to my car, I can have my revolver in my hand ready to go and nobody will notice. The fastest draw is to have the gun already in your hand.
 
I only keep semi autos that are reliable or that I can make reliable. Otherwise, they are looking for a new home.
 
I have ran every kind of dirt cheap ammo I could get my hands on trying to see if anything might cause issues with my M&P 45 and after thousands of rounds in two different guns I have yet to have any malfunctions at all.

(Yes, I still practice for them anyway.)
 

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