Doesn’t help that they’re the ones loudly demanding more access to more firepower and more places with less training, less vetting and less responsibility.
Do you ever wonder if Gun Control Advocates lurk or even sign up on Gun Forums?
- Thread starter Echo40
- Start date
So, you don't believe in shall not be infringed?
Not in an unlimited fashion, no. I don’t think felons, schizophrenics, the mentally defective, or the recklessly irresponsible should be allowed to possess firearms. I don’t think that weapons that confer a degree of firepower equivalent to a WW2 infantry platoon should be commonly available without intense scrutiny from local law enforcement (regulated by a transparent, objectively-fair process and subject to judicial review and appeal). I don’t think that we should have readily-available 30-round magazines, because there’s not a lot of good reasons to have 30 rounds on tap for pretty much any conceivable defensive situation. I do think the gun laws we have in place today are fundamentally pretty OK in terms of hardware availability (with some reasonable room to tighten down and loosen) but the access we have to firearms is wildly questionable, particularly from the fringes of gun culture and our wider society.
There are true 2A people and then people with guns.
So what's your issue with felons?
Granting people with histories of violent conduct legal access to firearms seems like a recipe to give them tools to do more harm to more people. Seems pretty common-sense to me.
Not what I'm talking about. Totally not discussing violent felonies. In Missouri, failing to pay child support can be a felony. Writing a bad check, not a forgery, but just because you don't have enough money in the account can be a felony. A third driving while suspended can be a felony. You good with that?
No, I don’t worry about it. However, if they did stop by for a look, they may learn what the gun culture is about and not what the MSM and certain politicians tell them it is. They may leave truly enlightened.
Nope, don’t know him.
Conditionally yes? I mean, I think it’s a pretty low bar, probably too low in that case. I think that nuance is important here; stripping someone’s gun rights because they’re driving without a license seems excessive. But I also don’t think we should give a would-be home invader with five or ten years of prison sentences gun rights either on release. Likewise, I think that there’s definitely merit to a lot of reasonable things people propose in a lot of fields that would make our lives better as a society, and that the dreams of our founders weren’t limited to the parchment they had on-hand.
This is ranging a little closer to political discourse than I think the board wants, but I’ll say this: no rights are nothing, but no rights are absolute and unbounded either. The nuanced, rational middle is where we live, be it in regards to something as technical and organized as travel, something as passionate as speech or family, something as essential as economics or something as fundamental as defense. Recognition of this is literally the human experience; we have countless examples of what happens when societies and people pursue absolutes without nuance.
I am of the opinion that we as a community should be better stewards of the Second Amendment and the Constitution as a whole than people loudly demanding absolute freedom without regard to the consequences to society, our communities and ultimately ourselves. You know what was the worst thing about the No Kings Protests? The nagging fear that someone, somewhere, for some reason, would shoot up a protest and turn the boilers on our already-overheated political rhetoric. I suspect Americans as a whole would be a lot more accepting of 2A freedoms if its most vocal champions didn’t answer horror with demands for even more firepower in even more hands. Just my $0.02.
Don’t worry about anti 2A folks lurking around.
Your non response word salad is duly noted . . .
Please tell me with a straight face that someone who can't pay their child support is on the same playing field as someone who punched their baby momma in the face . . .
Your PM says you think it is. Sadly, you won't take ownership of that . . .
Criminals don't get permits, take training, indulge waiting periods or follow gun control laws, common sense or otherwise. Hanging requirements on already law abiding people does zero to prevent criminals from getting and using firearms.
If you can’t be trusted with core responsibilities by society to the point your conduct becomes criminal, you shouldn’t be entrusted with firearms either.
Depends on the criminal. Gangbangers, thieves, etc you’re entirely correct. Truth is though that no one really cares about their crimes and we know they get their guns from shady buys and theft. They’re also not typically making the news for mass killings that society cares about.
Mass shooters, on the other hand, typically buy their guns legally and there’s evidence that higher barriers to entry would dissuade them- reference Parkland, Sutherland Springs, Uvalde, Buffalo, Aurora, etc. not saying it would prevent those incidents but a “why do you want this?” With local LE might be a fantastic opportunity to interrupt their attack.
Japan has some of the toughest gun laws in the world but they can own centerfire semi-auto rifles (no high cap magazines though ) and semi-auto shotguns but no pistols. Their vetting is extreme including 3 interviews with the police, interviews with your co-workers and neighbors, mandatory safety training and knowledge of all gun laws, all guns are registered, mandatory safe storage in an approved safe and surprise inspections of your guns as to proper storage to avoid children being killed with guns not locked up. And their mass murder, homicide rate, and criminal use of firearms is one of the lowest in the world.
European gun laws differ from State to State but they have been tightening up on their gun laws as well yet they own a ton of guns in Europe. All of the States have mandatory registration, background checks, safe storage laws, mandatory safety training and knowledge of their gun laws and most restrict or in some cases outlaw high cap military style weapons. Most states outlaw concealed carry or open carry as self defense with a firearm is usually prohibited. They all have way less homicide rates, less mass firearms murder rates, and less robbery with firearms mostly because there is very little unregistered weapons for sale on the black market. I have been to Europe and never once encountered anyone trying to sell me an unregistered weapon, even when I asked if such weapons were available (they were not to me) When there is a very rare mass murder it's usually sponsored by an enemy Middle East State which in reality is an act of war not subject to local gun laws.
I took a survey at our gun club (1,000 members plus) where the people know me and spoke freely about gun control and you would be surprised at the diversity of opinion on whether we had enough gun control or too much gun control. We at our club have people who vote both Republican, Democrat and Independent,
I have found that Chat rooms and gun websites do not reflect the overall public opinion on gun control both from gun owners themselves or from non-gun owners. It has been estimated that 3% of the population owns 90% of the firearms in the U.S. and those are not good odds if a public panics after a series of back to back of mass murders that for example took place several years ago only hours apart, one in Texas followed by one in Ohio. The Republicans led by MItch McConnell who at the time were in control spoke seriously of passing some severe gun control but backed out after the mass panicked public calmed down but they came very close to doing it.
I have found out that the present Supreme Court is not as pro-gun as we all thought either and have last week ignored the Scalia ruling and refused to hear a case where New York and Connecticut banned assault rifles. So claiming we all have 2A rights does not mean much when the Conservative Supreme Court ignores the Constitution and prior pro 2A rulings at their discretion. I remember reading in one of the Gun Magazines decades ago the statement that said "The Constitution does not mean what it says it means, it means what the Supreme Court says it means on any particular day or hour of the week". Unfortunately that is the disturbing truth not just on guns but on the entire rest of our freedoms as well.
I think too that many, many, people who log on to gun websites remain silent as to how they really feel about gun control because most of those sites will ban people who exercise their right to free speech namely the 1st Amendment so they remain silent giving those against all gun control the false belief that everyone on their website is of their political beliefs. Banning free speech on a forum results in people living in a self-contained bubble completely devoid of the reality all around them throughout the country they live in. They often even ignore pro-gun people who have written books on the consequences of using a gun which results in death of another person. I think everyone should read books on the subject like the excellent books by Massad Ayoob such as In the Gravest Extreme: The Role of the Firearm in Personal Protection.
European gun laws differ from State to State but they have been tightening up on their gun laws as well yet they own a ton of guns in Europe. All of the States have mandatory registration, background checks, safe storage laws, mandatory safety training and knowledge of their gun laws and most restrict or in some cases outlaw high cap military style weapons. Most states outlaw concealed carry or open carry as self defense with a firearm is usually prohibited. They all have way less homicide rates, less mass firearms murder rates, and less robbery with firearms mostly because there is very little unregistered weapons for sale on the black market. I have been to Europe and never once encountered anyone trying to sell me an unregistered weapon, even when I asked if such weapons were available (they were not to me) When there is a very rare mass murder it's usually sponsored by an enemy Middle East State which in reality is an act of war not subject to local gun laws.
I took a survey at our gun club (1,000 members plus) where the people know me and spoke freely about gun control and you would be surprised at the diversity of opinion on whether we had enough gun control or too much gun control. We at our club have people who vote both Republican, Democrat and Independent,
I have found that Chat rooms and gun websites do not reflect the overall public opinion on gun control both from gun owners themselves or from non-gun owners. It has been estimated that 3% of the population owns 90% of the firearms in the U.S. and those are not good odds if a public panics after a series of back to back of mass murders that for example took place several years ago only hours apart, one in Texas followed by one in Ohio. The Republicans led by MItch McConnell who at the time were in control spoke seriously of passing some severe gun control but backed out after the mass panicked public calmed down but they came very close to doing it.
I have found out that the present Supreme Court is not as pro-gun as we all thought either and have last week ignored the Scalia ruling and refused to hear a case where New York and Connecticut banned assault rifles. So claiming we all have 2A rights does not mean much when the Conservative Supreme Court ignores the Constitution and prior pro 2A rulings at their discretion. I remember reading in one of the Gun Magazines decades ago the statement that said "The Constitution does not mean what it says it means, it means what the Supreme Court says it means on any particular day or hour of the week". Unfortunately that is the disturbing truth not just on guns but on the entire rest of our freedoms as well.
I think too that many, many, people who log on to gun websites remain silent as to how they really feel about gun control because most of those sites will ban people who exercise their right to free speech namely the 1st Amendment so they remain silent giving those against all gun control the false belief that everyone on their website is of their political beliefs. Banning free speech on a forum results in people living in a self-contained bubble completely devoid of the reality all around them throughout the country they live in. They often even ignore pro-gun people who have written books on the consequences of using a gun which results in death of another person. I think everyone should read books on the subject like the excellent books by Massad Ayoob such as In the Gravest Extreme: The Role of the Firearm in Personal Protection.
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