OP
As Michael Caine says in the movie "Harry Brown": Harry Brown: [On shooting a drug dealer whose gun jammed when he tried to kill him] You failed to maintain your weapon, son.
Does Anyone Clean Firearms Anymore
- Thread starter Doug627
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fiasconva
Member
One of my wife's church friends is a real gun person and has been shooting for years. She and her husband had a big collection and they would shoot frequently. He would always clean all the guns and never showed her how. He passed away a few years ago and she still shoots but has no idea how to clean her firearms. Her new boyfriend also has no idea. She wanted to take a beginner's firearms class since they usually teach that in the class. I told her she didn't need to pay to take that class and to let me know when she wanted to learn and I'd give her a hands-on lesson or two on any of her firearms she wanted to clean. I'd hate to see some of her expensive guns ruined from neglect, even if it was unintentional.
Doug M.
Member
I'll admit that I generally clean and inspect my firearms after each time they are shot. I don't get to shoot much due to life, and most of the time I am shooting for a LEOSA qual. This is not objectively necessary.
Con: I think it was Rob Leatham who opined that a gun that will not function dirty as long as it is lubed has some other problem. I've seen the video of him saying that, and it must have been well over a decade ago. The late Pat Rogers was mostly of the same opinion. His rifles got cleaned once a year or so; a quality AR will run for many thousands of rounds as long as it is well lubed with quality products (he advocated the Slip products all the time I knew him, but he had used other lubes if he did not have Slip.) He also pointed out that the military cleaning regimen was for other purposes, and often damaged rifles. He had enough ARs to equip a company as a business decision (easier to train folks if he stayed off base and avoided overused/under maintained military gear.) "Filthy 14" went about 50K rounds without cleaning; if your AR won't go at least 5000 rounds with quality ammo and mags, there is something really wrong with it.
I have done a few testing sessions with various pistols. My issued G21 did 700-odd rounds of duty ammo when I first got it. My Wilson KZ had some mag flaws and when I got it back after helping them work out the bugs, I ran a lot (also >700 rounds of different ammo) without cleaning. Both worked fine all the way through without cleaning until the testing was over. Likewise my PC Shield; I wrote it up when I bought it and ran 700-800 rounds of ball and carry ammo with no significant issues (don't recall any malfunctions in that period).
Miilitary training does result in a knee-jerk cleaning fetish; I saw that a couple of times at Pat classes. In spite of very clear directions to lube and not clean, some folks just could not overcome the old training. Pat had a broad background, he retired as a Marine CWO 2 and NYPD Sgt., worked at Gunsite and did some other .gov training. As a private trainer, he saw hundred of thoughts of rounds down range. He documented some bad malfs in his early training days, and the portion of the classes dedicated to quality and issues got shorter over the years because more students were internalizing the lessons and the incidence of sub-standard rifles, mags, and ammo really changed the level of problems experienced.
Con: I think it was Rob Leatham who opined that a gun that will not function dirty as long as it is lubed has some other problem. I've seen the video of him saying that, and it must have been well over a decade ago. The late Pat Rogers was mostly of the same opinion. His rifles got cleaned once a year or so; a quality AR will run for many thousands of rounds as long as it is well lubed with quality products (he advocated the Slip products all the time I knew him, but he had used other lubes if he did not have Slip.) He also pointed out that the military cleaning regimen was for other purposes, and often damaged rifles. He had enough ARs to equip a company as a business decision (easier to train folks if he stayed off base and avoided overused/under maintained military gear.) "Filthy 14" went about 50K rounds without cleaning; if your AR won't go at least 5000 rounds with quality ammo and mags, there is something really wrong with it.
I have done a few testing sessions with various pistols. My issued G21 did 700-odd rounds of duty ammo when I first got it. My Wilson KZ had some mag flaws and when I got it back after helping them work out the bugs, I ran a lot (also >700 rounds of different ammo) without cleaning. Both worked fine all the way through without cleaning until the testing was over. Likewise my PC Shield; I wrote it up when I bought it and ran 700-800 rounds of ball and carry ammo with no significant issues (don't recall any malfunctions in that period).
Miilitary training does result in a knee-jerk cleaning fetish; I saw that a couple of times at Pat classes. In spite of very clear directions to lube and not clean, some folks just could not overcome the old training. Pat had a broad background, he retired as a Marine CWO 2 and NYPD Sgt., worked at Gunsite and did some other .gov training. As a private trainer, he saw hundred of thoughts of rounds down range. He documented some bad malfs in his early training days, and the portion of the classes dedicated to quality and issues got shorter over the years because more students were internalizing the lessons and the incidence of sub-standard rifles, mags, and ammo really changed the level of problems experienced.
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I've solved the Riddle of steel for myself. After a career in the Army, a culture that made us overclean our weapons to the point of removing the finish. I do not detail clean after every use. I've owned alot of firearms over these many years and they all had one thing in common.
A clean but dry gun, rarely works for long, but a dirty gun that is lubed, will work.
I don't abuse my guns, but I don't spend hours cleaning them after I use them. a Quick strip down, a wipe and a relube, reassembly and functions check and good to go.
A clean but dry gun, rarely works for long, but a dirty gun that is lubed, will work.
I don't abuse my guns, but I don't spend hours cleaning them after I use them. a Quick strip down, a wipe and a relube, reassembly and functions check and good to go.
2ffat
Member
I'm in the "clean after use" club. I also clean and inspect every gun once a year.
My carry and duty weapons are kept clean, very clean. If my life depends on it I don't leave it to chance. My training and regular weapons?... ..lube yes..cleaning no.. my precision rifles are cleaned when accuracy falls off...my AR's... I just keep squirting lube in them...then at some point they get a flushing with some brake cleaner and some more lube...
Every 30 days if not fired or after every firing.
One of my edc's is a 45 cal Shield......Gets lots of mileage on the tractor.....At the end of the day I'll blow it off and out with the air hose...Then back in the holster for another day......Once in a while I'll deep clean it.
Some of my friends think I'm anal about cleaning firearms, I would have been the D.I. you did not want inspecting your firearm. There is NO excuse for a dirty firearm, if you cant take the time to care for it, take up knitting.
Cleaning
I shoot every gun I own and it is amazing how dirty some of the used ones are, at least dry of any lubrication. The old ones I buy at GB are aways in a dirty state of affairs. The buildup of dried oil mixed with carbon and unfired gunpowder creates a lacquer that needs a week of soaking in TF/acetone. Some of the AR rifles run wet and don't work well without due diligence. I grew up at a time when you cleaned your gun before putting it up on return from the field or range, no exceptions. My uncles that taught me to hunt and shoot were all WWII vets. What they said was the rules that a young kid lived by. Don't think that is still the case with young shooters. Perhaps we need more heroes as teachers. Cleaning a rifle is really a small thing, but is it?
I shoot every gun I own and it is amazing how dirty some of the used ones are, at least dry of any lubrication. The old ones I buy at GB are aways in a dirty state of affairs. The buildup of dried oil mixed with carbon and unfired gunpowder creates a lacquer that needs a week of soaking in TF/acetone. Some of the AR rifles run wet and don't work well without due diligence. I grew up at a time when you cleaned your gun before putting it up on return from the field or range, no exceptions. My uncles that taught me to hunt and shoot were all WWII vets. What they said was the rules that a young kid lived by. Don't think that is still the case with young shooters. Perhaps we need more heroes as teachers. Cleaning a rifle is really a small thing, but is it?
The cleaning after every use.....
Goes back to corrosive primers and black powder. I don't let them get gunked up, but neither do I clean them after every use. If I were going to sell it I'd clean it.
Goes back to corrosive primers and black powder. I don't let them get gunked up, but neither do I clean them after every use. If I were going to sell it I'd clean it.
All get a wipe down after handling or light use. I inspect and clean all guns 2x a year regardless of use. IMO improper storage is the primary cause of damage to guns.
As for hunting guns and higher volume pistols they all get a basic cleaning after each use and a detailed cleaning at the end of a season or after a high volume of use. I do not always do a full strip and clean after every shooting session.
I think the guys who taught us were trained by guys who had lesser quality powders bullets and lubricants than we have available to us today. The result IMO is some folks are hypersensitive to what might happen if they don't immediately get their gun in the sonic cleaner after every use. I totally agree with monitoring a CC gun and cleaning it at regular intervals.
I did a lot of duck hunting, and the new synthetic stocks, camo and matte finishes made things a lot easier. Duck hunting is hard on a gun, and you learn how to care for it or won't work when you need it. I learned a lot about lubes and semi-autos in harsh environments including subzero temps.
As for hunting guns and higher volume pistols they all get a basic cleaning after each use and a detailed cleaning at the end of a season or after a high volume of use. I do not always do a full strip and clean after every shooting session.
I think the guys who taught us were trained by guys who had lesser quality powders bullets and lubricants than we have available to us today. The result IMO is some folks are hypersensitive to what might happen if they don't immediately get their gun in the sonic cleaner after every use. I totally agree with monitoring a CC gun and cleaning it at regular intervals.
I did a lot of duck hunting, and the new synthetic stocks, camo and matte finishes made things a lot easier. Duck hunting is hard on a gun, and you learn how to care for it or won't work when you need it. I learned a lot about lubes and semi-autos in harsh environments including subzero temps.
After every round I shoot, I completely strip my guns down. Not some rounds. Not most. Every. Single. One. I start with a degreaser—industrial grade, because anything less would be reckless. Then I rinse with water. Not tap water. Reverse osmosis, triple-filtered. I apply gun cleaner with surgical precision, ensuring full molecular compliance. Each part is placed into a magnetic particle tester. Cracks don’t hide from me. They know better. Only after every component is verified to be structurally immaculate do I open a fresh container of lubricant. Not reused. Not shared. Fresh. Like the first snow. This isn’t maintenance. It’s discipline.
If my analitis is a DEFCON 4, you’d be very close to DEFCON 1.
Your maintenance program, being at the “molecular compliance” level, makes mine look like a silly slacker.
I’m very interested to know if you have discovered any cracks or other metal fatigue while doing your MPIs, and what part did the damage occur.
Do you test for the non-ferrous parts?
What MPI equipment do you use?
Thank you.
UncleEd
Member
I never have.
My batman, Cecil Percy Jones-Smith,
has never failed me in 60 years.
He's a good lad.
My batman, Cecil Percy Jones-Smith,
has never failed me in 60 years.
He's a good lad.
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Heard a tale from the guys that were there about a quick meeting outside a hospital in a small town in WV one night. Four officers, they thought they might just need their guns that night and were discussing who was going to be where as they waited on a guy to come to town to kill his wife (badly beat up and in the hospital). One of the officers decided to check his S&W .38 special to see if it was loaded. He took it out of the holster, couldn't get the cylinder to open up so he walked over to the brick wall and started smacking it against the brick. Finally hit it just right, the cylinder popped open, he confirmed he had 6 rounds it and closed the cylinder up to put the revolver back in the holster.
Some people can be scary.
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I have been lucky I suppose in that most of the guns I have purchased used were relatively clean. Maybe a few dirty ones, but nothing terribly neglected.
I always clean every gun right after shooting it unless while afield on a hunting trip. When on a hunting trip for a few days I will pass a lightly oiled patch down the barrel and wipe the outside of my shotgun with an oil cloth when returning back to the cabin in preparation for the next day's hunt. While hunting, rarely do I fire more than a dozen rounds through my shotgun on a given day's hunt. When back home I will properly and thoroughly clean said shotgun or any other guns I've brought along on the trip.
I do know some people who think cleaning a gun isn't really necessary. After long discussions with them regarding this, some will listen and some just look at me and think I am nuts. Usually somewhere down the line they pay the Piper with failures of one sort or another. Then they will clean it. IMHO that's NOT the way to fly!
I always clean every gun right after shooting it unless while afield on a hunting trip. When on a hunting trip for a few days I will pass a lightly oiled patch down the barrel and wipe the outside of my shotgun with an oil cloth when returning back to the cabin in preparation for the next day's hunt. While hunting, rarely do I fire more than a dozen rounds through my shotgun on a given day's hunt. When back home I will properly and thoroughly clean said shotgun or any other guns I've brought along on the trip.
I do know some people who think cleaning a gun isn't really necessary. After long discussions with them regarding this, some will listen and some just look at me and think I am nuts. Usually somewhere down the line they pay the Piper with failures of one sort or another. Then they will clean it. IMHO that's NOT the way to fly!
I shoot everything I own and clean everything I shoot. Every time. I was taught that way when I started shooting at 16. A few weeks ago I shot about 10 rounds out of a 22 rifle. I said “nah… I don’t need to clean it after shooting just 10 rounds”. It gnawed at me for 3 days then I had to clean it…..
Clean after every use. When I pick up a firearm at a gun show or sale, and see it is dirty, I wonder about all other aspects of maintenance. Unless it is really a scarce item I usually pass on it.
When I get around to it.
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