Does Les Baer Have Quality Control Issues?

[CA Escapee]

Earlier this month I bought a LB Custom Carry pistol.

In less than fifty rounds the right side of the ambi-safety was loose and scraping up the frame. Within one hundred rounds I had three "classic" three-point jams from the same LB magazine.

When I got home I took the pistol apart and cleaned it. I found that the flat base on the recoil spring rod, (short, original length,) was oversized with sharp, rough edges. The recoil rod had an interference fit in the dust cover; it wouldn't slide up the dust cover to sit against the frame. It was so oversized it bulged the sides of the dust cover out slightly where the recoil rod normally sits when the pistol is assembled.

The extractor was as straight as an arrow with no tension on it. When you take the firing pin stop plate off and shake the slide the extractor drops out on its own. So much for the "tuned extractor" described in the LB catalog. This could have caused the three jams described above.

About one third of the forward serrations on both sides of the slide were flattened, some at the top edge, some at the bottom edge.

How could they let a gun with these problems out of the building?

The dealer where I bought it agreed to ship it back to LB. (Les Baer doesn't issue pre-paid shipping labels.)

After a couple of weeks of not hearing from LB I called them to ask about the pistol. The woman I spoke to took my name and number and said, "We've got a lot of RMA's in, when Les gets to it and tells me what he's going to do, I'll call you."

Seeing these problems on a brand new gun and hearing her comment makes me wish I'd never bought the gun in the first place. I think I could have spent less and not had these problems from another manufacturer.

Bill

 

[NZshooter]

RMA?

I've heard lots of manufacturers having issues lately trying to get product out the door, never thought LB would be one of them. Maybe a new guy built yours?

 

[Watchdog]

How could they let a gun with these problems out of the building?

Well, every gun manufacturer has quality control problems at one time or another. It could involve just a few guns or it could involve a whole production run. I know this isn't really answering your question, but it is what happens. You just happened to get caught with one this time. Unfortunately for you, this one's a high-dollar (and supposedly custom) pistol instead of a mass market one.

I think I could have spent less and not had these problems from another manufacturer.

Sure you could've. There's an LGS in town who usually stocks several different Les Baer concoctions. My personal opinion is that they're all overpriced. Except for different levels of exterior bells and whistles, they're all starting to look alike to me. Ditto for Wilson Combat stuff.

Would I pay $1900 to $3000 for a Baer or a Wilson? No, not when I can get a stainless steel Colt .45 for less than $1100 out the door.

 

[mc5aw]

For the prices of LB offerings, one would not expect any type of problems with a new firearm, especially something attributed to a misfitting part. Totally unacceptable.

I never was drawn to the big dollar .45 race guns, but knew some folks who regularly dropped serious cash on the latest and greatest ... including Baer, Brown, Wilson, etc. There are a lot of high end 1911s out there to choose from, but people I've spoken with (who are dedicated 1911 shooters) concur that two of the best values are the Springfield TRP and Loaded models. I'm a revolver guy, so I can't confirm.

 

[Laketime]

Don't feel bad I sold my Ed Brown last summer for failure to feed on the last round with every magazine.Personaly I'm done with high dollars custom 1911's.For me it's Kimber pre 2004 era,Colt,and Springfield Armory.in that order.

 

[murphydog]

I do know RMA - return merchandise authorization. I know nothing about high-end 1911s but they always seemed overpriced, and also that I am probably not a good enough marksman to tell the difference between a $2000 and a $750 .45.

 

[younggun22]

I absolutely love my LB.

However the few times that I have dealt with Les have not been enjoyable.

 

[S&WIowegan]

As soon as a custom gun-builder expands beyond the point where he builds every gun himself, this kind of crappy QC comes into play. I have had experience with several big name builders who produced guns for me that had to be sent back for rework.

I have also noticed that young gunsmiths who work for one of the famous guys, soon leave and start their own business. I'm fortunate currently to have a good friend who will "clean up" custom builds so they run the way they should. I'd much rather pay him good money to do it right than send it back. I've had sent back guns come home to me still screwed up.

S&W is not the only gun co. with QC problems.

 

[Laketime]

I absolutely love my LB.

However the few times that I have dealt with Les have not been enjoyable.

Ed Brown tells you " it must be you ,I only build perfection "

 

[BigCityChief]

I got rid of my Les Baer Custom Carry after only 150 rounds. I wasn't terribly impressed. I have 19 other 1911's, so I'll survive.[emoji2]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Frank237]

I wouldn't buy a Baer for a few reasons. He builds them so tight that one is required to "break it in" with 500 rds of ammo. THEIR recommendation. Add even 250 rds of ammo to the LB price and you are in Ed Brown territory.

I've got a Wilson and an Ed Brown. BOTH guns have been flawless since the first round. I have had ZERO issues. The price I paid for them several years back is now FAR less than what they cost today. After years of good service I could sell either of them and make money.

Yeah. Those high end 1911's are nothing but a waste of time and money.

 

[amazingflapjack]

I'll stick with my 4506 and Super Hawg.

 

[CA Escapee]

I think a few simple checks before the pistol went out the door could have prevented this return trip.

I own a LB Concept VII, (Commander,) too. I bought it used years ago. I took the extractor and recoil rod out of it to verify what I already knew before sending the new one back. (I removed the C7 parts before sending it in. )

I've installed a Chip McCormick ambi-safety on a Springfield and gotten years of trouble-free use out of it. (I shoot right and left-handed, so it got used.) The safety on the LB had no tension on the blade and forks to keep the left and right levers together.

The day I returned the pistol to the dealer I explained the list of problems it had before an audience of employees and customers. When I got to the problem with the oversized recoil rod one customer chimed in by saying that LB makes tight guns. How does he know this? He watched a YouBoob video. (even recommended I watch it)

If they've got a junior gunsmith doing a final assembly on guns they may want to set aside proper toleranced parts to use as a gauge. (Are you reading this Les?)

As far as LB being "Custom," you're right Watchdog, they have a standard line of pistols.

I should have bought the Springfield TRP instead.

Bill

 

[ankona]

OP could we see some pics of the issues. Les Baer are not "custom 1911's" they fit in that semi-custom realm between production line 1911's such as Colt, Kimber, etc. and true custom guns built by custom pistol smiths. You can expect to pay 3K and up for these. Baer's are hard fit old school pistols with good components. I own several and they are great pistols but need to be broken in. My newest with 3000 plus rounds is nice and smooth. Baer's mags plain suck. Throw them out or shoot at them and replace with good mags; I like Tripp Research Cobra mags but there are plenty of good ones out there. Opinions vary but I would rather shoot my LB's than Wilson or Ed Brown which may be prettier but don't shoot any better. But that's me. I've been shooting Baer's long enough to know how to get them to perform. You also have to know how to talk to Les who can be a real PITA if approached the wrong way. Hint talk about Mustangs and ask about the gun. Don't call and complain from the get go you might as well just shoot yourself in the foot. Bottom line is he produces a solid 1911 that will outlast the owner. Yeah I've had to "dress" some of the guide rods as they beat themselves into place in a hard fit gun. Do they turn out a lemon every now and then? I'm sure they do but frankly in this day and age what manufacturer does not as they try to make $$$ while their product is in demand thanks to our current anti-gun gov't. Yes it does suck for the consumer but until we get things straightened out (if they ever do) we will have to deal with poor QC from everyone. I own a lot of 1911's and have had crappy Colt's, Springfield's, WC's, Kimbers that have had to go back to be repaired. This is why I prefer to examine guns in hand prior to purchase and am very reluctant to buy one sight unseen from places like Gun Broker. Send it back in and let them fix it then shoot it like you stole it. There is nothing better than a Baer with a lot of rounds down the pipe.

 

[old&slow]

Back in the Bad Old Days, if you wanted a 1911 you would take what Colt offered you and like it ..
If you wanted it to actually work,, or be dependable, or be accurate , etc. You sent it to folks like Les Baer, Bill Wilson, Steve Nastoff, Art Clary, etc.

Back before Baer was in Illinois making his own firearms. Back before he worked for Springfield Armory. Back when he was a gunsmith in Pennsylvania, I sent my Colt 1911 to him. After a very very long wait I got back a smooth as silk 1911's.
I still have my Baer. Don't know how many tens of thousands of rounds I have shot thru it.. But I can probably count the number of malfunctions I've had with it on less than one hand.

The last new Les Baer I saw and handled wasn't Anywhere near as smooth or the quality of the 1911 that he worked on for me back in the 80's.. A shame and not so Funny how things seem to have come full circle.

Springfield, and then Kimber, starting making 1911's with the quality and features the customer wanted,, and at a pretty reasonable price. Blew Colt out of the water,, and reduced the need for so many good quality gunsmiths..

 

[mc5aw]

OP could we see some pics of the issues. Les Baer are not "custom 1911's" they fit in that semi-custom realm between production line 1911's such as Colt, Kimber, etc. and true custom guns built by custom pistol smiths. You can expect to pay 3K and up for these. Baer's are hard fit old school pistols with good components. I own several and they are great pistols but need to be broken in. My newest with 3000 plus rounds is nice and smooth. Baer's mags plain suck. Throw them out or shoot at them and replace with good mags; I like Tripp Research Cobra mags but there are plenty of good ones out there. Opinions vary but I would rather shoot my LB's than Wilson or Ed Brown which may be prettier but don't shoot any better. But that's me. I've been shooting Baer's long enough to know how to get them to perform. You also have to know how to talk to Les who can be a real PITA if approached the wrong way. Hint talk about Mustangs and ask about the gun. Don't call and complain from the get go you might as well just shoot yourself in the foot. Bottom line is he produces a solid 1911 that will outlast the owner. Yeah I've had to "dress" some of the guide rods as they beat themselves into place in a hard fit gun. Do they turn out a lemon every now and then? I'm sure they do but frankly in this day and age what manufacturer does not as they try to make $$$ while their product is in demand thanks to our current anti-gun gov't. Yes it does suck for the consumer but until we get things straightened out (if they ever do) we will have to deal with poor QC from everyone. I own a lot of 1911's and have had crappy Colt's, Springfield's, WC's, Kimbers that have had to go back to be repaired. This is why I prefer to examine guns in hand prior to purchase and am very reluctant to buy one sight unseen from places like Gun Broker. Send it back in and let them fix it then shoot it like you stole it. There is nothing better than a Baer with a lot of rounds down the pipe.

For the price of a NIB Les Baer, a buyer should not have to tweak/tune/finesse ANY operational parts from the outset, nor should a buyer be obligated to spend 500+ rounds "breaking in" the pistol. It's a 1911, not a new Ferrari, and should be good-to-go out of the box. 1911s by nature can be a bit finicky, but doesn't the justification for a high dollar model come via avoiding the traditional problems inherent to the standard 1911 design?

I recently purchased two tuned Kalashnikov rifles ... one a Krebs Arsenal 103, the other a Definitive Arms Saiga 103. Both have semi-custom work done to stock platforms (not true customs) on par with what Baer, et al perform on their respective offerings. Both rifles are flawless out of the box, and are exactly what is expected ... quality work, quality operation, quality service. Also, dealing with both Krebs and DAs is a pleasure.

I'd send Les his 1911 back and tell him to pound sand.

 

[Laketime]

Back in the Bad Old Days, if you wanted a 1911 you would take what Colt offered you and like it ..
If you wanted it to actually work,, or be dependable, or be accurate , etc. You sent it to folks like Les Baer, Bill Wilson, Steve Nastoff, Art Clary, etc.

Back before Baer was in Illinois making his own firearms. Back before he worked for Springfield Armory. Back when he was a gunsmith in Pennsylvania, I sent my Colt 1911 to him. After a very very long wait I got back smooth as silk 1911's.
I still have my Baer. Don't know how many tens of thousands of rounds I have shot thru it.. But I can probably count the number of malfunctions I've had with it on less than one hand.

The last new Les Baer I saw and handled wasn't Anywhere near as smooth or the quality of the 1911 that he worked on for me back in the 80's.. A shame and not so Funny how things seem to have come full circle.

Springfield, and then Kimber, starting making 1911's with the quality and features the customer wanted,, and at a pretty reasonable price. Blew Colt out of the water,, and reduced the need for so many good quality gunsmiths..

Kimber use to be the best bang for your buck until production demands resembled a runaway freight train .Funny how we all want the new kid on the block to make it ,problem is they always seem to leave most of the quality behind.

 

[old&slow]

Kimber use to be the best bang for your buck until production demands resembled a runaway freight train .Funny how we all want the new kid on the block to make it ,problem is they always seem to leave most of the quality behind.

I haven't purchased a new 1911 for several years and things can and do change.
Bang for the buck,,, Kimber is my 1st choice, with Springfield a close 2nd in 1911's .. My double stacked STI 2011 is very smooth and I'm quite happy with it.

 

[H Richard]

I have handled a lot of different high end 1911's, and with the exception of a few Ed Browns and a Richard Heinie, I didn't really think that much of them. I currently have 4 1911's, a Series 70 Gold Cup, that has been worked over back in the 70's by a pretty good gunsmith with a Kart Barrel installed, A Springfield Armory that I built up myself, and two RIA's a 9mm and a 45 both Compact models. The best bang for the buck was the RIA's. Out of the box 100% reliability, good accuracy, decent triggers. Just a little tweaking to bring them up to par.

 

[Laketime]

I haven't purchased a new 1911 for several years and things can and do change.
Bang for the buck,,, Kimber is my 1st choice, with Springfield a close 2nd in 1911's .. My double stacked STI 2011 is very smooth and I'm quite happy with it.

Kimber has always been my first choice on production 1911's.The external extractor era set their reputation back a bit coupled with owners not knowing how to reasemble the gun properly with the Swartz safety system.like anything, most of the on line bashing was unfounded. A lot of it was generated by fanboi's of other competitive brands.My series I gold matches were exceptional guns,and functioned right up there with my custom package guns from Wilson.I would change the MIM parts for match grade aluminum...not for fear of failure ,I just liked the feel of real machined parts.Sadly I must admit that my NIB old stock series I Classic Royal is made better then my NIB stainless Gold Match II from 2003.Springfield is a close second,and Colt is number one only for holding value.