Double Tap 10mm problem

[Retired W4]

A while ago I bought a variety of Double Tap’s 10mm ammo to shoot in my 310 NG and a full size Glock. When I first shot it through the 310 the cases expanded so much I had to tap it out with a dowel. I told the manufacturer about it and, to their credit, they sent me a couple new boxes, with UPS return label so they could check out the ammo that was giving me the problem. Meanwhile I shot some of the other DT 10mm I had and it had the same problem. They suggested I polish the chambers in the 310. Well I got the Glock out with their ammo, and the cases not only bulged, they (90%) actually split just above the base. I have shot every kind of 10mm ammo I could get my hands on through both guns and nothing I shot gave me the problem I experienced with theirs.

I sent them several of the split cases that came out of the Glock, and so far I have heard nothing since my earlier communication. I honestly don’t believe there is a problem with my guns. No other brand of 10mm has the problem, and I have used many different brands through these guns. I am surprised they have not gotten back with me on this issue.

 

[Mule88]

Ive used their 165 gn 10mm loads in my 1006 and have been very satisfied with them so far. They are a good company and should make it right for you.

 

[Maximumbob54]

Double Tap seems to be the new Corbon and Buffalo Bore type specialty loads seller that makes red hot nuclear ammo. I have read good and bad news for years about C and BB and now it seems to be DT joining with them. When you load ammo that hot, it is going to cause problems like that. I would suspect if you measured your chambers they will be just oversized enough that it is causing this problem for you. I understand the lure of the velocity on paper, but unless it is used for hunting I don’t quite get the full intended use. But that’s just me and my opinion talking. Sometimes you just literally want the biggest bang for your buck. Pun intended.

 

[Calaveras Slim]

I agree with MB54 about some folk loving the loud heavy bang. not me. I reload and keep it down to just above middle of the road. Those heavy duty loads, IMHO, put too much stress on a weapon and shoot them loose much sooner.

 

[Retired W4]

I have a couple 44 mags, a 41 mag and an IMI DE 50AE. I don't shoot them to make my wrist hurt, and those guns have a purpose. I don't always get to use them for the purpose I intended for any of them, so I shoot them when I can. When a certain round does what this Double Tap is doing I quit using that ammo. Like I said before, no other ammo I have tried does what this stuff does, in either gun. What is the chance of both guns, of completely different design and manufacturer having oversized chambers? I'm sure it could happen, but.... The fact that no other ammo has the problem in these guns makes me wonder though. I will look into the dimensions of the chambers on my guns.

My theory comes down to a problem with their cases.

Has anyone had a problem with extracting fired DT 10mm cases from a revolver, or had cases split/crack?

 

[Maximumbob54]

The cases aren't skinny, are they? I have found brass that is so thick that when I resize it, it makes the bullet swage its way in some and cause a serious noticeable bulge. So I guess anything is possible...

 

[Retired W4]

The cases aren't skinny, are they? I have found brass that is so thick that when I resize it, it makes the bullet swage its way in some and cause a serious noticeable bulge. So I guess anything is possible...

You know, I have not sized the case thickness of these failed rounds, but I will. I am still waiting to hear back from DT concerning the returned ammo.

 

[Maximumbob54]

If you still have some unfired I would check those and the empties. I'm actually curious. It's not like there haven't been bum runs of brass. If you have any other brand of empties I would love to know the thickness of the walls. I have some FC (Federal Classic ?) marked brass I picked up. The cartridge is .421 wide, .988 tall, inside diameter .398, cartridge wall is .011 as measured by my caliper.

 

[Retired W4]

The other brands I have measured are all around .011, with DT's at .010 to .012 nominally. However, I am only able to measure at the neck and the cases are failing just above the base. I am wondering if they are a little thin down in that region. The few empty DT cases I have measure .429 near the base after tapping them out of the chamber. Unfired cases measure .419 (or less) at the base and .422 near the neck. I thought I still had some of the cracked cases, but I have not found them this A.M. I might have sent them all to DT.

 

[mmncw]

How old is your glock? When I had one, several years ago, the factory chamber was so loose that factory ammo split in it on a regular basis - particularly hornady. I put a tighter barrel in it and the problem went away (think it was a lone wolf barrel, but can't remember for sure).

Also, don't discount the advise to polish the chambers of your revolver. Had to do it on a 686 that wouldn't release light target loads. Rough chambers sometimes happen.

Not saying that there was not a problem with the ammo you got. But when using ammo that pushes the edge on pressure, borderline issues with the firearm tend to be highlighted.

 

[c.marsh]

BAD BATCH OF BRASS

i would bet that the brass was not heat treated properly......

 

[LOBO]

Double Tap seems to be the new Corbon and Buffalo Bore type specialty loads seller that makes red hot nuclear ammo. I have read good and bad news for years about C and BB and now it seems to be DT joining with them. When you load ammo that hot, it is going to cause problems like that. I would suspect if you measured your chambers they will be just oversized enough that it is causing this problem for you. I understand the lure of the velocity on paper, but unless it is used for hunting I don’t quite get the full intended use. But that’s just me and my opinion talking. Sometimes you just literally want the biggest bang for your buck. Pun intended.

Although not as senior as Corbon (1982), Double Tap has been around since 2002. I don't know about Buffalo Bore.

 

[Maximumbob54]

Although not as senior as Corbon (1982), Double Tap has been around since 2002. I don't know about Buffalo Bore.

I only mean that they are getting big into the factory max loads and are getting into the realm of magnum +P kind of ammo. Fancy powders, primers, and brass that somehow come in under SAAMI spec but must be skirting it pretty close. I just won't use the stuff. Like some of BB's .38 +P that are darn near low .357 magnum performance. I'm sure that is good for an Airweight....

 

[Kanewpadle]

Double Tap seems to be the new Corbon and Buffalo Bore type specialty loads seller that makes red hot nuclear ammo. I have read good and bad news for years about C and BB and now it seems to be DT joining with them. When you load ammo that hot, it is going to cause problems like that. I would suspect if you measured your chambers they will be just oversized enough that it is causing this problem for you. I understand the lure of the velocity on paper, but unless it is used for hunting I don’t quite get the full intended use. But that’s just me and my opinion talking. Sometimes you just literally want the biggest bang for your buck. Pun intended.

This doesn't apply to all of Corbon's offerings. Yes, once upon a time it did. But not now. Check the specs on DPX and Powrball.

The same could be said for the only true full power 10MM load from Norma. But as far as I know, Norma never had any quality problems.

I know people that swear by Double Tap but they haven't shot much of it. The attraction to Double Tap is the percieved performance and price. Around here you can by a box of 50 rounds for a little more than the price for 20 or 25 rounds by other manufactures. So the people that buy that nice new gun with multiple hicap mags are attracted to a box or two of Double Tap because they can fill all those mags for a lot less money.

I don't care for way that Double Tap has used bullets designed by other companies and simply added more powder. Some guy at Speer, Corbon etc...... With many more working brain cells than me designed and enginereed those bullets to go a certain velocity so it would be effective before it broke apart. Or overpenetrated.

I've shot a few hundred rounds of Double Tap in 40S&W and 357Sig. I had the same problem with split cases but only a couple times. But I kept hearing of quality control problems so I quit using it.

And in guns less than full size, the recoil is horrible. Way too much recoil to recover from effectively.

Just my 3 cents though.

 

[LOBO]

I only mean that they are getting big into the factory max loads and are getting into the realm of magnum +P kind of ammo. Fancy powders, primers, and brass that somehow come in under SAAMI spec but must be skirting it pretty close. I just won't use the stuff. Like some of BB's .38 +P that are darn near low .357 magnum performance. I'm sure that is good for an Airweight....

Ah, I gotcha' now

 

[Sprefix]

Retired W4, There is a problem with 1 of your guns...............

Quote by Retired W4--"I honestly don’t believe there is a problem with my guns." First, the glock has a severely undercut ramp. ANY hot loads will leave a bulged "smiley-face" at the bottom of the brass at the top of the loading ramp. If you pull out the barrel when cleaning your Glock, drop a live round into the barrel and look at the bottom of it. I have owned 14 Glocks and liked them. The G20 was my favorite, but with a standard load or under. 180's at 1400 fps(Norma load) are on the edge for a Glock barrel because of the undercut ramp. I decided to go to my true calling of a C-BOB DW Commander in 10MM. A fully supported ramp is the way to go for several reasons. As for the revolver, I have no experience. I think I would be reluctant to "polish" something to make a particular ammo work. I like hotter loads, but if you have to go that hot, shoot a bigger round. By the way, I have ammo that spits a 135 grain Nosler at 1780FPS out of my commander. The gun is built for it though. I would shoot it in much else. That load would blow the mag out of the Glock and split the frame leaving you with a broken gun and damaged a hand. JMO

 

[Retired W4]

Sprefix, I lost track of this thread, which is kind of dumb since I started it, and just read your very interesting reply. As to polishing any chamber to make one brand of ammo work in a particular gun, I agree whole heartedly. As the Glock is concerned, I too have owned several over the years, and currently own the 20 and a 21 and 19. I see what you are saying about the undercut ramp. My real issue is with Double Tap, who indicated in our conversations that they were somewhat concerned that they may have overloaded the ammunition that I bought from them. They sent me two new boxes of ammo and a return label for the stuff I was having problems with so they could examine it for signs of a quality control problem. They never said anything about not using their product in one gun or another. If that had been their advice I would loved to have heard from them on that issue. Of course my problem started with the extraction problems in the S&W 310 NG, and shifted to the Glock as I tried to identify where the problem originated. After reading your response, and others on the forum, my next step will be shooting some equally "hot" rounds from other manufacturers in the 310 to see if, say Cor-Bon or Norma, presents the same problems as I had with DT. That is if I can find the equivalent round from other manufacturers.

Thank you to all who have responded to this thread. I will report back on range results.

 

[ennis]

Here are pictures of some 10mm Doubletap that I bought back in 2012. Both the 200gr and 230gr hardcast were defective because they were cast in a cold mold. The hollow point was what they sent to replace the defective hardcast loads. Before getting this batch I was a solid doubletap customer. I liked that they were trying to breathe some life back into, what had become, underpowered 10mm commercial loads. I haven't bought from them since this foobah. Hopefully, they've improved their quality control.

 

[Retired W4]

Here are pictures of some 10mm Doubletap that I bought back in 2012. Both the 200gr and 230gr hardcast were defective because they were cast in a cold mold. The hollow point was what they sent to replace the defective hardcast loads. Before getting this batch I was a solid doubletap customer. I liked that they were trying to breathe some life back into, what had become, underpowered 10mm commercial loads. I haven't bought from them since this foobah. Hopefully, they've improved their quality control.

I happened upon this post to an old thread I started. Wow, those pictures speak volumes. I hope they have their QC problem under control. I understand the concept that DT and other manufacturers are working on. The typical .357 magnum ammo available today, and other magnum calibers, seem so weak you could hardly call it magnum. Hand loading your own seems to be the best solution but not everyone is able to do that. When I do shoot 10 mm I use Cor-Bon's 165 JHP which performs very well.