Dr. Walter J. Palmer

[jtcarm]

Dunno about Zimbabwe, but here an animal wearing a tag or tracking collar is fair game. It just means they were part of a study at some time.

Innocent or not, the mans already been convicted in a trial by Twitter.

Guess Americans have forgotten about the 300 Nigerian school girls kidnapped by Boko Haram last year. They rate a good bit higher on my scale of concern than Cecil the lion.

 

[M29since14]

...If the information I've gotten in the mainstream media is correct Dr. maimed the animal with a shot from his bow then spent the next 40 hours tracking it and finally finished it with a rifle shot. To me there is nothing sporting about what the Dr. did.

If true, I couldn't agree more.

 

[sodacan]

I have no problem with hunters or hunting, but killing endangered species is just wrong. There's something wrong with someone who does it. There is no sport there.

 

[Bill Bates]

What bothers me most or better said just makes me sad is; all of the people condemning this guy when we don't begin to have all the facts. As usual these days we have a certain element going off half cocked and calling for blood. It reminds me of how many have called for police to go to jail for murder on so many of the recent police involved shootings. Of course that should come as no surprise it is a lot of the same people stirring the pot. The facts don't seem to matter. They have a lynch mob mentality and that is very sad.

He very well could be the victim of an unscrupulous PH and guide. He paid for permits that it appears were never obtained by the PH. We don't know if he was aware that the lion was lured out of the Park. The dentist paid his fee, he'll never see his trophy, his reputation and life has been ruined, he has gone into hiding and he very well be a victim of the dirt bag guide and PH.

Shooting big cats over bait is not illegal where the hunt took place. It is the norm. The guide would likely have whispered in the good doctors ear when to take the shot with his bow. Who knows wether the collar was visible (it sure isn't in any of the photos or videos I've seen of this lion) Who knows what the dentist knew or didn't know on this hunt.

At this point it doesn't seem the powers to be in the country where the hunt took place are interested in going after the Dr. Palmer.

So for the time being I'll hold off judgement on the dentist. If he knew what was going on then he should suffer the punishment. If he didn't then he is a victim and is owed much more than a refund on his hunt.

 

[Jst1mr]

I don't believe in trophy hunting, I know it happens and in most cases it's legal, so I'll say no more about that.

What I don't understand is the reason to hunt one of the most dangerous game animals in the world with a bow. I don't think the Dr. believed he would get a clean kill with an arrow.
If the information I've gotten in the mainstream media is correct Dr. maimed the animal with a shot from his bow then spent the next 40 hours tracking it and finally finished it with a rifle shot. To me there is nothing sporting about what the Dr. did.

Why the jab at bow hunting? A well-placed arrow will kill as quickly as anything else. A poorly placed shot with any weapon - rifle, bow, spear,etc. - will not be immediately fatal. No matter the skill level of the hunter, or the weapon being used, poor hits can and do happen. Doggedly following up on that poor hit and finishing the animal as soon as possible becomes the hunter's ethical responsibility. A heart/lung shot with a proper broadhead is much better than a gut shot with a .460 Weatherby...for any size animal.

 

[Onomea]

Zimbabwe is now trying to get the guy extradited back to Zimbabwe. If I understand the article correctly, the crime is the use of the crossbow. (But I may misunderstand, and the newspaper may have it wrong...)

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/01/w...l?smprod=nytcore-ipad&smid=nytcore-ipad-share

 

[PatriotX]

Whether or not he knew the lion was collared at the time he made the shot is moot; the PH has admitted to finding the collar after the kill and placing it in a tree.

The doc was made aware of the collar, and he left the country knowing he killed a collared animal.

His prior hunting-related conviction doesn't fill me with confidence that he was acting with good intention. He knowingly killed a bear in a protected area and moved the carcass to a 'legal' zone to avoid the law.

To heck with this guy.

 

[cmort666]

Of all of the things I can worry about right now, that's not one of them.

I'm FAR more concerned with illegal aliens being allowed to run around and murder people, as recently happened here in Ohio and in San Francisco.

 

[Coldshooter]

at one time a resident hunter in Alaska could take 10 caribou/reindeer per year... if I remember right... for resident hunters .. the caribou/reindeer were the only animals that were allowed to be hunted on the same day that they flew in on... all others had to wait until the next day to hunt........it's been too long since my friend passed... correct me if I've misremembered guys.

It was a bit more complicated. Take 10 in select game management units if they were consumed within that GMU. An example Eagle Alaska on the south bank of the Yukon has a limit, not sure what it is this year, 300 yards across the river the limit was 10 but only 5 could be transported across to Eagle for consumption. Politicians messing with game laws which is why I feel sorry for good wildlife managers.

 

[Woodsman22]

"I get hunting for game management. You have too many of one animal you can thin the population. Do we have too many loins?"

- In the case of lions at least, that is an excellent point. If you believe Scientific American (and many other sources), lions are expected to go extinct by 2050. Not that far off, and there is political pressure to put lions on the endangered species list.
Hunting animals that are this close to being declared endangered is not doing the sport any favor nor helping the public image of hunting either. There is something about "canned hunts" of exotic animals that really just turns me (and the general public) off in a large way.
As to the doctor- well his dental practice is wrecked, and the latest at this point is that the government of Zimbabwe has asked for his extradition. The US has an extradition treaty with Zimbabwe and the current administration most likely is sympathetic to the Zimbabwe government. Read up about Zimbabwe and you will find that the place is one incredible horror. Inflation is up to Haitian levels there; meaning starvation is rampant. The government is incredibly corrupt. Bribery is needed to get anything done there, and the doctor is going to be spending a lot of his money on ahem; "legal fees". Zimbabwean prisons are incredibly bad. He made a huge mistake booking a hunt in that country; if he ends up in prison there, it will likely be the last mistake he ever made.

 

[Woodsman22]

"I have no problem with hunters or hunting, but killing endangered species is just wrong. There's something wrong with someone who does it. There is no sport there."
Sodacan, lions are not on the endangered species list (yet), though they certainly should be and there is political pressure being brought to bear to have them put on that list. I am not anti-hunting by any means, but in the case of exotic species that are endangered, I feel differently.

 

[islamoradamark]

50 G s to shoot a lion that tells me that dentist is expensive

 

[Onomea]

.... He made a huge mistake booking a hunt in that country; if he ends up in prison there, it will likely be the last mistake he ever made.

Guy who lays out $50K for a lion hunt? No way he will ever go back to Zimbabwe. He will hire a lawyer, and ride it out.

Further, the USG knows how disfunctional the Zimbabwe government is. Extradition treaty not withstanding, no way the doc is going back. (Nor should he. No one in hizzer right mind could believe he'd be fairly treated there.)

 

[moralem]

So where is the lion skin and head? Did he leave it behind when he saw the collar and said oops and left the country ASAP or did he drop it off at the local taxidermist on his way to the airport......still thinking his actions were in good faith. His actions post the kill are what interest me and where is the evidence after the fact. Regardless if this was legit or not I wouldn't trust him as my dentist, too many assumptions on his part in trusting the game hunting system to work in a third world country without doing his due diligence to ensure he was taking no risks in traveling to the most impoverished part of the world. I would be worried he would make poor decisions regarding my dental health using the logic he did in making the decision to trust his guides. Not like he made a good decision regarding the black bear, if you can believe that story. Poor decisions begat poor results.....hope he saved up a lot of money for early retirement.

 

[pharmer]

Read up on what eventually happens to the "alpha" lion in every pride. It ain't like a Disney movie. Even if it is "canned" this instance provides benefits ($$$$) all around that "nature" doesn't. Distraction, and it's worked beautifully, giving the sheep much angst. Joe

 

[tops]

If I ever win the lottery you can bet your backsides I'm gonna kill a LOT of exotic animals and skin them and decapitate them and hang them on the wall-and I'm gonna do it with a big old H&H double rifle carried by a gunbearer while wearing my Ramar of the Jungle hat. And after which I'm going to drink pink gin and quinine around the campfire and talk like Ernest Hemingway. And then I'm going to Cuba and deep sea fish with my mexican (or cuban) on my newly commissioned Rybovich 60 footer with oldtexmex as my capitan.
And I just might very well cap it off by buying a $3000+ 1911

In a past life I had a teacher that said I should be a lawyer. I never really understood why she would say that until I read this. But instead of oldtexmex as captain I believe younggoodlookingwoman would be a better captain. Larry

 

[flundertaker]

the good doctor has been on the wrong side of other questionable hunts before. since we have an extradition agreement with Zimbabwe we need to ship him back for his day in court. Or does the agreement only work when the US wants someone versus the other party to the agreement?

 

[Drm50]

I think all verdicts should wait on the facts. When $55K is put out
for. A hunt in these 3rd world countries there may be some crooked dealings. I can't believe the guy would shoot a well known"character" like this lion. Any reasonable person would know it would blow up in his face. As far as collar reported, at
night I may be hard to see. Give the guy benefit of doubt. The
facts will come out. He seems to be in more trouble and personal
danger than some of our more recent hi profile murders. All these
people screaming for his head only know what media is putting
out. We all know that has to be the absolute truth!!!!

 

[rwsmith]

It was the STINKING guide.....

Are they putting as much hate into bringing the guide to justice?

 

[4barrel]

at one time a resident hunter in Alaska could take 10 caribou/reindeer per year... if I remember right... for resident hunters .. the caribou/reindeer were the only animals that were allowed to be hunted on the same day that they flew in on... all others had to wait until the next day to hunt........it's been too long since my friend passed... correct me if I've misremembered guys.

You are saying reindeer really fly?

 

[Absalom]

.......He made a huge mistake booking a hunt in that country;.......

I think if he had done his due diligence, he would have realized that. It's hard to believe how stupid otherwise intelligent and educated people can get when they get fixated on something.

I think you would have trouble finding a large reputable PH outfit agreeing to a bow shot at a male lion. Most lions in southern Africa are killed in private reserves these days, and are very pricey; if you research safaris, you'll see that you can shoot an elephant for considerably less than a lion. There is no way that the doctor couldn't have known that this was a fly-by-night operation, especially if there is anything to the stories involving luring the lion out of the park with bait dragged behind a vehicle. But taking a lion with archery apparently was missing on his brag sheet, so he rolled the dice, and lost badly.

While I'm sure all the miserable and starving people of Zimbabwe would love to get a small fraction of the world attention and outrage that the one dead lion is drawing, the doctor sure won't get any sympathy from me.

 

[Freischütz]

The Official African Hunter Magazine Online has a good write up on the subject.

 

[Leonard]

There is a lot of misinformation out there especially by the anti hunting crowd. The media is using it to divert attention from other more important questions and a lot of people seem to be more upset over an animal being killed than they are over human life.

I would reserve judgement until all of the facts are in. The only piece of info I have heard that sounds legitimate is that the the lion appears to have been taken in an area that did not have quota if this is the case it is a serious issue for all involved. The 50K or so paid for the hunt raises a serious question as to whether the cat was on quota as legitimate lion hunts in Zimbabwe are selling between 80 and over a 100K.

I have a couple of Zimbabwe pro hunters that come over and visit with me every January I will eventually find out what actually happened.

By the way this BS about the male protecting the cubs they are known to eat their own off spring its the females that protect them!

 

[Hellraiser]

He made a huge mistake booking a hunt in that country.

That's right... he'd a been whole lot better off bookin' a lion hunt at the Smithsonian. Them lions is already dead and stuffed.

 

[Onomea]

The Official African Hunter Magazine Online has a good write up on the subject.

This is an excellent, factual write up, far better than anything else I have seen. Thanks!

 

[Absalom]

I love this line from the article linked by Freischütz:

"Any way you look at it, Palmer was in the wrong place at the wrong time. It had to be Cecil, didn't it? He may as well have shot the Pope."

But the facts as laid out there also appear rather uncomplicated:

"Unless Honest Ndlovu can prove he had a lion on quota (quotas are issued by National Parks, and their Investigations Branch are the ones who've arrested him) the lion was hunted illegally, Quod Erat Demonstrandum."

What remains to be clarified is what Palmer did, should and could have known or not, and how far that will help him as an excuse, if at all.

 

[HOUSTON RICK]

I think that he is on his way to Africa under extradition to be made into an example.

 

[Fishslayer]

I mean if he really was clueless about the lion he was about to take, I don't understand why he's getting all the heat

Because the torches & pitchforks mob on social media need SOMEBODY at whom to express their outrage.

I would be very surprised if he didn't believe everything was on the up & up.

His past history won't help though. It would indicate that he is willing to break the law.

 

[kbm6893]

I'm not against hunting at all, when it is for food or even population control with the meat donated to the poor.

But I don't see the purpose of sport in shooting a lion, much less one on a preserve that you bait. And while the doctor could surely afford this hunt, I have a Strong feeling his practice is about to go under and he won't be blowing 50 grand to shoot a defenseless animal from the protection of his jeep wit a guide to help him.

I'm feeling zero compassion for this man. He made his bed. Hope he's comfy in it.

 

[Fishslayer]

I'm feeling zero compassion for this man. He made his bed. Hope he's comfy in it.

Supposedly his practice is already gone...