Drivers license/CCW connected?

In MA, I don't think that they know unless they specifically consult the DB that will tell them. I don't think that it's a big concern around here, and perhaps shouldn't be anywhere, because the folks that have permits aren't the problem. Over a period of forty years or so, I have sat in the front of a police car two or three times, all involving driving an automobile. I was armed on one or two of those occasions, and it really didn't seem to be a matter of concern to anybody.
 
I think the reason this thread rattles me so much is that if you go ahead and pay off the state, prove that you are a legal and law abiding citizen, and chose to utilize your second amendment right… Guess what, you can be legally shafted for it still. So even from the LEO stand point is sounds like IMHO there should be nothing to fear from CCW permit holders. It should make them smile and be proud that a fellow human being is choosing to protect themselves. But instead we run the risk of running the innocent until proven guilty route simply because we are flagged in a system. I had no idea so many states already had the power to round you up simply for not telling the officer that his state has already been paid, and you have already been cleared to carry this firearm. This screams that this should be moved from the Lounge to the Second Amendment forum. I find this whole issue very troubling.
 
Maximumbob54 said:
Because the one and only person that I have met handed the FHP both his driver's license and his CCW permit and was asked to please step out of the car, put your hands on the roof....
Click to expand...
Hate to hear about this as I'm sure you did. The vast majority of FHP officers just want to do their jobs for the people and then go home safely to their families. It's the ones like this that make it tough for the others. Guess we each have to handle this situation as we see fit and hope all turns out well.

Bob
 
smith revolver cop said:
In Ohio, it also pops up when your driver's license is run.
Click to expand...

In CCW class they also tell you (well, I was told) to roll down the window, keep your hands on the steering wheel top, and turn on an inside light if dark outside. Chances are very high they have already ran your plates before exiting the patrol car and know what to expect.
I have told my wife this if she is driving my car, but then again, she will not drive over the speedlimit, and ALWAYS slows down to stop for a yellow light.

My thoughts are this: LEOs have enough things to worry about when approaching a car, make it easy to see you are not a threat - even when not carrying.
 
Hold on a second while I don my flame suit......

OK, here goes. Having a concealed weapons permit does not mean you are a good guy or are particularly law-abiding. In a "shall issue" state it means you don't have any felony convictions, you may have taken a quickie CCW course, and you paid a fee.

I worked a Hell's Angel "fun run" in Montana a while back. Quite a few of those boys obligingly handed over concealed weapons permits when stopped. Non-felons legally carrying? Yes. Good guys? No.

I know it doesn't apply to the fine folks here, but there are dirtbags with permits out there. The cops just want to have all the information that is legally available to them when they make their approach to the vehicle.
 
Sig,
Let me hide behind you as I don't have a fame suit...

Whether we are in the right or not about informing a LEO about being a CCW holder, I believe it is only courteous behavior to let them know if you are carrying or not. I know and work with lots of them and most are really good people who I am happy to be courteous to. Their jobs are hard and dangerous enough without me adding to it.
 
Firearmsrookie said:
Sig,
Let me hide behind you as I don't have a fame suit...

Whether we are in the right or not about informing a LEO about being a CCW holder, I believe it is only courteous behavior to let them know if you are carrying or not. I know and work with lots of them and most are really good people who I am happy to be courteous to. Their jobs are hard and dangerous enough without me adding to it.
Click to expand...

I'm another who believes that notification is simple courtesy. Since it's also the Law in Michigan it's also a requirement. BTW, Michigan not only links the CPL to the drivers license it's also linked to car registrationss. So, if you have a CPL and you're driving a car registered in your name that Police Officer will know about your permit as soon as he runs your tags.

As for shady characters with permits in Shall Issue state, Michigan has a rather long list of relatively minor offenses that will exclude someone from qualifying for a permit. Even a ticket for Reckless Driving is enough to get you excluded for 3 years and almost any infraction that indicates irresponsible behavior of any type can get you excluded for anywhere from 3 years to much longer.
 
I just got off the phone with a friend who had just did the shooting and the school for the Arkansas concealed carry and I told him I didnt think they were connected, he said the officer that did the training told his class that if stopped to include the CCL along with the drivers license and proof of insurance as it might save a problem with the officer. I have the 74th license issued in Ar and the first class was not informed, has probably been modified since it was passed. Jeff
 
Last edited:
In Texas you are required to present your CCL along with your drivers license. If they want to know if your are carrying they will ask you. Some do, and some don't. I have not received any tickets, except for warning tickets, but I have been pulled over, or presented license after an acccident when I was rearended. Each time a presented my CCL, and the officer, both local and highway patrol, very nicly thanked me for presenting the CCL. Of course they knew I had it because it is linked to your DL. A couple of times the officer and I actually got into a discussion of what our favorite pistols are. In Texas at least, the last person I want to shuck and jive or give a hard time to is a Texas Highway Patrolman. They are very courteous and professional, up to a point. Maybe I've been lucky, but I have never ran into a Texas LEO that was anti-gun or anti-CCL holders.
 
I was in an accident (not my fault) last summer. The LEO was a young kid (late 20's) and both parites involved had CCW permits. I was not carrying, the other guy had his weapon secured in his car trunk. We both immediatley informed the officer and he was appreciative, and seemed a little better mood (this was his 4th accident in 3 hours due to the other main interstate being one lane due to construction).

The officer has a SWAT patch on his uniform, and took a few minutes to talk to my son about it when he heard the kid mention it to me. Since then my son has expressed an interest in law enforcement after high school (10th grade now).
 
Not paranoid but...

In CA I've heard the CCW info is on your license. Also child support info, organ donor info, and on and on. :eek:

This is one reason I do not allow merchants to swipe my DL when making a purchase or cashing a check. I don't know how much of that info they can capture and share. :cool:
 
Don't count on the cops to know the laws either.

Got pulled over on my motorcycle a few years back. When I took my D/L out , I also pulled my LTCF (I keep them together), which I slid back in. State cop asked if that was a 'carry permit'? I replied yes , as he put his hand on his sidearm and stepped back and shouted "OK , where's the gun?"!

He very loudly and angrily told me I was supposed to inform him I was carrying a firearm immediately whenever pulled over. State law says different , only have to inform IF asked , besides , I wasn't carrying any firearms on me at that time anyway.
 
mkk41 said:
Don't count on the cops to know the laws either.

Got pulled over on my motorcycle a few years back. When I took my D/L out , I also pulled my LTCF (I keep them together), which I slid back in. State cop asked if that was a 'carry permit'? I replied yes , as he put his hand on his sidearm and stepped back and shouted "OK , where's the gun?"!

He very loudly and angrily told me I was supposed to inform him I was carrying a firearm immediately whenever pulled over. State law says different , only have to inform IF asked , besides , I wasn't carrying any firearms on me at that time anyway.
Click to expand...
We had an even worse occurrence here a while back.

Beachwood cops, during a felony stop, ordered a guy not to speak. After ***51 seconds*** he managed to inform them that he had a CHL and was carrying. They charged him with "failure to 'promptly' notify", and he actually went to trial. He was of course acquitted. I expect him to sue everybody involved, since this was not just ignorance (inexcusable in any case), but actual MALICE. They ORDERED him not to notify, AT GUNPOINT, then charged him for obeying their orders.

For this reason, I will shout over any cop if necessary to inform here.

The notification requirement is an open invitation to abuse and needs to be eliminated.
 
cmort666 said:
We had an even worse occurrence here a while back.

Beachwood cops, during a felony stop, ordered a guy not to speak. After ***51 seconds*** he managed to inform them that he had a CHL and was carrying. They charged him with "failure to 'promptly' notify", and he actually went to trial. He was of course acquitted. I expect him to sue everybody involved, since this was not just ignorance (inexcusable in any case), but actual MALICE. They ORDERED him not to notify, AT GUNPOINT, then charged him for obeying their orders.

For this reason, I will shout over any cop if necessary to inform here.

The notification requirement is an open invitation to abuse and needs to be eliminated.
Click to expand...

I'm inclined to disagree with this sentiment. The simple fact is that every single Police Officer has as much right to go home at the end of his shift as any other person. Think about the recent spike in police officers who've been shot and consider that every single officer in this nation is aware of that spike. Without notification I can assure that they will not react gently if they spot that you are armed and have not informed them of that fact. At least with notification and the linking of carry permits to license records the police have some advance notice. Yeah, it does introduce the potential for a Felony Stop but I haven't seen any indication of this being done in my area, generally Felony stops are triggered by overt actions on the part of the driver or a report of that particular vehicle being used in a recent crime.

So, my immediate question pertaining to that Beechwood stop is what was the driver doing that caused him to be the subject of a Felony Stop? The simple fact is that Felony Stops require a lot of manpower to execute properly and aren't undertaken without some cause.
 
I don't think in Calif. that my concealed carry permit is linked to my driver's license, as no questins have ever been asked if I was carrying whenever I was pulled over, however about 20 yrs ago, I was pulled over and the cop took my driver's license, walked back to his car and ran it on his computer. he came back and said " Wow, you sure own a lot of guns!" So there must have been a link to guns registered in my name. We talked about guns for awhile and I wound up selling him a deer rifle. That's never happened since, so that link must not exist now. Ed.
 
sigp220.45 said:
Hold on a second while I don my flame suit......

OK, here goes. Having a concealed weapons permit does not mean you are a good guy or are particularly law-abiding. In a "shall issue" state it means you don't have any felony convictions, you may have taken a quickie CCW course, and you paid a fee.

I worked a Hell's Angel "fun run" in Montana a while back. Quite a few of those boys obligingly handed over concealed weapons permits when stopped. Non-felons legally carrying? Yes. Good guys? No.

I know it doesn't apply to the fine folks here, but there are dirtbags with permits out there. The cops just want to have all the information that is legally available to them when they make their approach to the vehicle.
Click to expand...

Noted. Thank you.
 
scooter123 said:
I'm inclined to disagree with this sentiment. The simple fact is that every single Police Officer has as much right to go home at the end of his shift as any other person. Think about the recent spike in police officers who've been shot and consider that every single officer in this nation is aware of that spike. Without notification I can assure that they will not react gently if they spot that you are armed and have not informed them of that fact. At least with notification and the linking of carry permits to license records the police have some advance notice. Yeah, it does introduce the potential for a Felony Stop but I haven't seen any indication of this being done in my area, generally Felony stops are triggered by overt actions on the part of the driver or a report of that particular vehicle being used in a recent crime.
Click to expand...
  1. Requiring a NON-criminal to notify that he's carrying has exactly WHAT effect on a criminal who's carrying unlawfully?
    The guy who just robbed a liquor store is going to notify? It's nothing but harassment of NON-criminals.
  2. We all have a choice, obey the law or not. Not is a bad choice, whether you're an LEO or a citizen. If the law doesn't require me to notify, I'm not going to do it. If a cop doesn't like the law and acts out because of it, there will be consequences. "Officer safety" is NOT a pass to commit crimes and civil torts. If any LEO feels that he cannot BOTH obey the law AND do his job, I encourage him to find alternate employment.
  3. Again, this was NOT a matter of LEOs failing to know the law (inexcusable at any rate). It was a matter of LEOs ORDERING a citizen NOT to do something then ARRESTING him for OBEYING THEIR ORDERS.

scooter123 said:
So, my immediate question pertaining to that Beechwood stop is what was the driver doing that caused him to be the subject of a Felony Stop? The simple fact is that Felony Stops require a lot of manpower to execute properly and aren't undertaken without some cause.
Click to expand...
The victim had a shouting match with his girlfriend. He left the house alone. There was no violence, nor any threats. A friend of the girlfriend called police who executed the felony stop on the basis of erroneous information.

The nature of the stop is completely and utterly irrelevant. He was not charged with a crime relating to the friend's call. He was charged with and tried for "failure to 'promptly' notify"... AT THE DIRECT ORDER OF THE OFFICERS ON THE SCENE. It wouldn't matter if they suspected that he had a trunk full of weaponized anthrax. Any time police order a person to do or not do something, then ARREST him for OBEYING THEIR ORDERS, that is prima facia malice and shocking misconduct.

No matter how you tie yourself into knots trying to deny it, what the Beachwood Police did was despicable. They should no longer have the legal opportunity to engage in that specific misconduct. Notification of LEOs by CHL holders needs to eliminated.
 
Last edited:
Whenever I drive through Beachwood (maybe twice a year) I ALWAYS drive the speed limit and not one mile per hour over! Too many stories like this one or of people getting pulled over for driving 3 miles over the speed limit and getting huge fines.

That and I'm usually going to my brother's house up the lake shore to shoot and have multiple guns in the trunk (all locked up with trigger locks on them and the ammo locked in a separate ammo can!).
 
In NY State it's connected. Of course we always try to avoid being pulled over but if I ever do my hands are both holding the top of the steering wheel when approached by the officer. We do not have to inform the officer but will be sure to be asked if they run the license. I have actually gotten off in the past on getting a ticket because I showed a gun the officer liked and wished he had. That was over 20 years ago so I'm sure things have changed.
 
I'm not aware of any requirement to inform an LEO of having a CCW here in Pa, but I consider it appropriate to do so, at the very least, a courtesy.
Last year at this time I had just picked up two revolvers at a local gun shop and was driving home when I was pulled over by a local LEO. I was coming through an unfamiliar area of a small town and did not see the change in speed limit from 35 to 25 mph. I was really, REALLY, sweating it as I did not initially know the reason for the stop when I pulled over at the first convenient place. Also, it was the first time I had been in possession of a handgun in over 20 years! So there I am, more than a little anxious, with two handguns on the seat beside me and an LEO getting ready walk up and say howdy! Pulled my keys from the ignition and placed them on the dash, then kept both hands in full view on the steering wheel. When he came up to my window and greeted me I returned his greeting and said that he needed to know that there were two unloaded handguns on the seat beside me. He said "What was that!" and I repeated it. He leaned down and took a closer look then asked me for my drivers license.
I volunteered to show him my CCW but he declined. The rest was anti-climatic. He said that I was going a little too fast and to "next time, just watch your speed closer" and let me off with a have a nice day! If the guns had not been in view, as in the trunk, glove box or cased, I would have probably not said anything about them unless asked.
I realize that this occurrence was no big deal. It wasn't a life threatening situation and I'm sure the background check he did on my plate before approaching me showed little, but there is always the potential in any situation for overreaction. Being in a small, rural community also had a bearing. I would have kept the guns out of site if it was a large city or suburban area.
In situations like this it has always been my experience that being calm and courteous helps to ease things. I may not always agree with how any one particular LEO behaves, or anyone for that matter, but I realize that they have a hazardous profession, and have to deal with all sorts of low life and tense situations. They deserve the respect of the public they serve. Common courtesy may not seem like much but it's effects are usually positive for everyone involved.
John
 
I agree about not all CCW holders are good guys. I attended a gun show in Valley Forge and decided to wait outside the entrance to the show (entrance was indoors inside a hotel) and watch as people entering had to check their guns at the door (hey put plastic zip ties through the guns and let you take them into the show). Let me tell you, be afraid, be very afraid - I wouldn't trust half these guys to walk my dog let alone carry a gun.

PA is a shall issue state. Your permit means you have never been caught, nothing more.
 
Cmort, consider this a bit of advice and not a criticism because I really don't intend to start a fight. However, I've noticed that you have a distinct animosity towards the Police in your posts and would advise you to think about something.

That is that any Police officer you come in contact with will pick up on that animosity immediately and will respond to it by taking a "hard line" approach. This means that you are going to continue to have bad experiences with the Police and it is going to be in large part due to your attitude.

I'd also like you to think about what the line officers of today face. In many areas Policing has shifted in large part from protecting the public to an income generating operation. Many communities have had to do this because it's the only way that they can keep their police departments funded, unfortunatey between dropping property values, declining employment, and a reduction in taxes collected, the only way many communities can continue to operate a police force is by using their officers as tax collectors. I can assure you that the police officers don't appreciate being used this way but with so many departments closing they go along with the program so they can keep their jobs. What this means is the today's police officers are expected to write citations that 20 years ago would have earned them a lecture from the administrator in a Mayor's Court.

Put yourself in the line officers place, in order to keep working you're expected to hand in a certain number of citations every day, even if they are for something as minor as a 2 over the limit infraction. I know a few cops and I can tell you that every single one of them just LOATHES doing this. However, they do it because they have mouths to feed and not a lot of options concerning finding work at a different department. If you haven't noticed, there are a lot of well qualified police officers looking for work nationwide because their police department closed up shop. So, before that officer even exits his car he's not in the best frame of mind. Now, consider what takes place when he is immediately greeted by someone who is obviously distinctly hostile, the result is anything but a pleasent encounter. You should also remember that there have been many police officers who were greeted with gunfire. Fact is that it's not an easy career path and today it's become just miserable.

Now, it happens that back in the 70's I worked at the Sohio station at exit 13 on the turnpike in Boston Heights. At that time the Boston Heights PD had the highest income in the entire state per capita of any community in Ohio. On the face, it was a real speed trap, however the Boston Heights PD didn't pull anyone over if they were less than 20 mph over the limit on Rt. 8. While working there I had a lot of contact with the BHPD an Staties from the turnpike. One bit of advice from a sargent with OHP stuck and has proven to be invaluable to me. That was to be as pleasent and courtious during the stop as I would be with my father. It's not the place or the time to argue about specifics of the infraction, we have courts for that. Be nice, be calm, be willing to take your lumps, and you may get nothing more than a warning to slow down. That's actually worked well for me for over 40 years and I've actually had officers testify on my behalf on 2 seperate occasions when I did get cited and appeared in court. The first time the Mayor's court administrator dismissed the charge and the second time the fine was cut in half with no record imposed provided I satisfied a 6 month probation with no violations.

Just something to think about. The police today don't have an easy job to do and just a bit of courtesy and a good joke can go a long way towards getting a break. You won't always get off with a warning but I think that you'd be very surprized and how often being pleasent can result in getting nothing more than a warning.
 
scooter123 said:
Cmort, consider this a bit of advice and not a criticism because I really don't intend to start a fight. However, I've noticed that you have a distinct animosity towards the Police in your posts and would advise you to think about something.
Click to expand...
I have an animosity toward people who violate the law, including people who believe that they can enforce the law without actually obeying it themselves.

Nobody has to like the law, merely obey it. There's no exception for LEOs.

It doesn't matter what either the LEO or I "face". What matters is our choice to obey or disobey the law.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Faulkner
Instead of rear ended, I got front ended
Replies
25
Views
2K
Sistema1927
Sistema1927
ddeanjohnson
For Sale WTS: 15 guns -- all offers respectfully considered -- collection liquidation
2
Replies
37
Views
23K
fredcoyote
fredcoyote
ddeanjohnson
  • Locked
WITHDRAWN. WTS: Collector downsizing-- 26 collector handguns
Replies
10
Views
7K
ddeanjohnson
ddeanjohnson
codenamedave
The $255 Highway Patrolman
2
Replies
40
Views
5K
codenamedave
codenamedave
federali
Road Rage Shooting
Replies
27
Views
4K
Ogandydancer
Ogandydancer

Latest posts

Back
Top