Dry firing a 617

[joe44va]

I had posted asking if I could dry fire my recently purchased 617. The general consensus was not to do it and if I do to use yellow wall anchors or snap caps. This to prevent piening of the cylinder.
I'm wondering why, after a century of having this issue, that it hasn't been corrected. So, I dug around my junk to find my old machinist hat and measured the gap between the firing pin and the cylinder. After pulling the trigger the gap was 0.024". The Federal case that I measured had a rim thickness of 0.041" and the thickness of the rim where the firing pin had struck was 0.028". It seems that our friends in Springfield deserve kudos for solving this. For those wondering how I measured this space that you can't get to, I used Play Doh. This stuff works great for measuring blind clearances like this because it's soft and takes the impression but dries hard overnight so you can measure it. I am now comfortable dry firing my 617. YMMV

 

[Gunna1day]

It's your gun but I've seen a few 617 cylinders damaged caused from firing pin contact. So for peace of mind I don't risk dry firing any rimfire guns. Rifles included.

 

[andy52]

I don't dry fire any of my .22s without snap caps. I just bought a .22 combat masterpiece that someone had done that with and the face of the cylinder had several peen marks in it.

 

[Camster]

Other concerns besides peening the cylinder. The hammer will still slam into something, without the cushioning effect of the cartridge rim or a snap cap.Hit anything enough times, and you might get stress cracks. I wouldn't dry fire any gun.

 

[Speedo2]

As said above, it's your gun to do with as you please. But consider the accumulated impact between the hammer and FP bushing. Something will eventually get hammered. I would be curious if the apparent clearance between the FP tip and cylinder recess stays constant after around 100 dry fires. Personally, I wouldn't risk it. Dry wall anchors are cheap; K22 cylinders, not so much. -S2

 

[6actual]

It's your gun but I've seen a few 617 cylinders damaged caused from firing pin contact. So for peace of mind I don't risk dry firing any rimfire guns. Rifles included.

This has been my experience on any rimfire revolvers as well

 

[jaymoore]

Not an empirical study, but I've been dry firing my 617 4" no dash for 20 years now. Tens of thousands of times, plus multi case lots of ammo live fire, mostly DA and it's still running strong, as of two days ago. It has long ago sheared one of it's ejector/extractor pins, but it still carries up well. The ten shooter 4" probably has only 2-3000 rounds and dry fires out of it, so it's still an "infant".

The 8 3/8" 617 no dash has been around about as long, and it gets dry fired, too, without protection, but it's probably only got 10-20,000 rounds out of it. (No burning through steel plate racks, etc.)

None has any firing pin marks or serviceability dramas.

I have some 17s that were purchased with firing pin indentations BETWEEN the chambers, but I really can't figure out how they got there.

Even the Pre-WWII .22 K frame gets dry fired along, but it just doesn't have the good trigger pull either DA or SA that the newer ones do.

 

[Gunna1day]

Enough speculation on this thread , time for pictures that don't lie!
This pic is not a 617 cylinder. It's from a ruger single 10 i bought online without seeing it.
The cylinder was damaged that bad I couldn't even seat some of .22 cartridges all the way when loading. This gun was sent back to the dealer for an instant refund. A total lemon and should not have been even put up for sale in this condition .
But it clearly shows the extensive damage from dry firing a rimfire revolver. And that's good enough for me.

 

[Narragansett]

50 years ago, I was with someone when they dry fired a shotgun in the house, and the inertia sent the head of the pin across the room and hit the wall.

Since that time, i dry fire nothing without a snap cap

if you are trying to smooth out your trigger with tens of thousands of dry fires, I guess i would send the gun out for a master action job first

Just my.02

 

[Tazman1602]

Neither rim fires nor shotguns should be dry fired for the reasons stated above. Don't think there's any way to harm a centerfire pistol or rifle though.

Art

 

[RGVshooter]

It's clearly stated in the owner's manual and on S&W's website to NOT dry fire the model 617.... And I've seen many examples of peening on cylinders and chambers over the years that would prove your "machinist hat" wrong.

 

[ggibson511960]

How Does It Happen?

I pulled out a couple of my S&W .22's, a J-frame and K-frame, to see if I could make a firing pin contact a chamber rim recess. I failed, but had fun trying. There is too much chamber recess depth and not enough firing pin protrusion. So how does this dreaded peening occur in a Smith that is dimensionally on spec? I can only postulate mechanical faults that would allow it. The Ruger cylinder shown above was obviously not in alignment when the hammer fell. You can't do it on a Smith. If the cylinder is not indexed the hammer block/transfer bar won't let the hammer fall to battery. Maybe if you do it enough the frame becomes peened enough to let the hammer fall further and peen the cylinder recesses. Even so, a recess would have to be seriously peened to keep a cartridge from firing reliably.

Can somebody demonstrate how this happens instead of repeating what has been heard for generations? I would like to learn.

 

[wproct]

The manufacturer puts this warning in the owner's manual for a reason. If a person chooses to disregard this warning, damage may occur. In one case it might take hundreds of dry-fires to cause damage, and in another case this damage might occur on the 2nd or 3rd dryfire. I learned this lesson the hard way on a Smith & Wesson .22 caliber semi-auto pistol. I broke a firing pin on about the 4th or 5th dryfire. On your gun it's your choice.

 

[prairieviper]

If the manufacturer says don't do it, I don't do it.

 

[Camster]

If the manufacturer says don't do it, I don't do it.

I agree.
..and if one is compelled to do it, a little insurance in the way of snap caps or wall anchors, has little cost.
...or go for a walk, if one has that much excess nervous energy to use up.


I once owned an engraved K22. Beautiful and it fired ok,but the owner must have dry fired the thing a million times,given the dent on each cylinder rim.

 

[TMan51]

if you are trying to smooth out your trigger with tens of thousands of dry fires,

I see that recommendation often. Why would anyone do that?

Snap caps are cheap, repairs are expensive, and sometimes difficult or impossible.

 

[cds43016]

I just got a new 617 and normally dry fire my revolvers to get a feel for them and break them in. This is what I've been doing for my centerfire revolvers. Dry Fire also reinforces muscle memory when I can't make it to the range.

I sent a note to Smith & Wesson several weeks back asking if it is OK to dry fire the 617 with snap caps. I expected an OK answer but received no answer at all.

I can't see the harm dry firing with a snap cap or wall anchor could have since the firing pin is cushioned and doesn't hit the cylinder.

I wouldn't dry fire any gun including a centerfire without one.

Am I wrong in this assumption?

 

[cmj8591]

Can somebody demonstrate how this happens instead of repeating what has been heard for generations? I would like to learn.

The firing pin is free floated so after contact with the hammer, inertia carries it until it contacts the cylinder. When you measure the firing pin protrusion, you must do it with the firing pin pushed all the way forward against the spring pressure. If you do it with the hammer only pushing on the rear of the pin, you won't see the distance it travels on its own after contact with the hammer. YMMV with different guns and from chamber to chamber within the same gun. If you want to dry fire your gun, use snap caps or empty cases to cushion the pin or you will eventually cause a peen where the pin contacts the cylinder.

 

[Lightfoot4]

While I've heard not to dry fire a 22 rimfire revolver, I've always done it when putting away my rifles so they wouldn't be stored in a cocked position. I think I'll add snap caps to them in storage from now on.

I've never heard that you also shouldn't dry fire shotguns. I did the same with them as I did my rifles, doing that final dry fire before storage. I guess I need to add snap caps to my shotguns as well for storage.

 

[NYlakesider]

While I've heard not to dry fire a 22 rimfire revolver, I've always done it when putting away my rifles so they wouldn't be stored in a cocked position. I think I'll add snap caps to them in storage from now on.

I've never heard that you also shouldn't dry fire shotguns. I did the same with them as I did my rifles, doing that final dry fire before storage. I guess I need to add snap caps to my shotguns as well for storage.

As a young kid I dry fired my fathers Ithaca 16G SS field gun.

He bought the gun in the 30s and I came along mid 40s. From the time I was old enough to hold it he let me dry fire it.
Must have "fired it a thousand times like that. After I got old enough to actually shoot shells used that gun for hunting. My father is long gone but I still have the gun and it still shoots well and without taking it apart it appears all is fine.

Going forward I have a Weatherbe OU 12G Skeet gun and I always put snappers in there and pull the trigger twice when I'm done. Older and much smarter than I was when just a kid I am protecting my firing system and also taking pressure off the extraction/ejecting system springs..