Dry firing a 617

[reddog81]

Enough speculation on this thread , time for pictures that don't lie!
This pic is not a 617 cylinder. It's from a ruger single 10 i bought online without seeing it.
The cylinder was damaged that bad I couldn't even seat some of .22 cartridges all the way when loading. This gun was sent back to the dealer for an instant refund. A total lemon and should not have been even put up for sale in this condition .
But it clearly shows the extensive damage from dry firing a rimfire revolver. And that's good enough for me.

The damage i'm seeing in that picture looks like the firing pin is striking the cylinder besides the recesses for the case rim. I believe this type of damage would happen regardless of if a round is chambered or not.

I find it extremely odd that S&W says that dry firing a .22 revolver will damage the firing pin and they do not mention damage to the cylinder. How will dry firing the rimfire models effect the firing pin differently compared to center fire models.

I tried using Google to find damage to S&W .22 cylinders and there are surprisingly few pictures out there. I'm guessing S&W has done a good job of figuring out the exact tolerances that still allow for reliable ignition yet don't mar the cylinder when dry firing. Still the safest answer is to not dry fire.

 

[D Brown]

As a young kid I dry fired my fathers Ithaca 16G SS field gun.

He bought the gun in the 30s and I came along mid 40s. From the time I was old enough to hold it he let me dry fire it.
Must have "fired it a thousand times like that. After I got old enough to actually shoot shells used that gun for hunting. My father is long gone but I still have the gun and it still shoots well and without taking it apart it appears all is fine.

Going forward I have a Weatherbe OU 12G Skeet gun and I always put snappers in there and pull the trigger twice when I'm done. Older and much smarter than I was when just a kid I am protecting my firing system and also taking pressure off the extraction/ejecting system springs..

Just so you know... On an Over and Under Shotgun with Auto Ejectors, snapping the hammers (dropping the hammers on snap caps is the same as firing the gun with live ammunition for all intents and purposes) cocks the hammers on the ejectors so they're ready to eject the "empty hulls" when the action is opened. So as long as you're keeping your O/U shotgun fully assembled, either the Firing Pin Hammers, or your Ejector Hammers are going to be in the cocked state, and thus under tension. The only way to avoid this situation is to break the shotgun down (separate the barrel from the receiver) when it's not in use.

Personally, I don't think you can hurt the springs, either set, by leaving them in tension, that's why I don't use snap caps for the purpose you have described. I've put over 75,000 rounds through my Browning XT Trap over the last 12 years, and never used a snap cap on it, nor have I ever taken it down between shoots.

 

[ggibson511960]

Not Inertia Firing Pins on S&W Revolvers

The firing pin is free floated so after contact with the hammer, inertia carries it until it contacts the cylinder. When you measure the firing pin protrusion, you must do it with the firing pin pushed all the way forward against the spring pressure. If you do it with the hammer only pushing on the rear of the pin, you won't see the distance it travels on its own after contact with the hammer. YMMV with different guns and from chamber to chamber within the same gun. If you want to dry fire your gun, use snap caps or empty cases to cushion the pin or you will eventually cause a peen where the pin contacts the cylinder.

I tested this on a my M-17 and M-34 by pushing on the firing pins and neither have any more protrusion than what the hammer imparts at the bottom of its arc. These two Smith revolvers are fitted so that the hammer and firing pin shoulder bottom out on the frame at the same time. These are not inertia firing pins. Makes sense, otherwise the transfer bar wouldn't make the revolver drop safe. This may not be the case with S&W automatics. I have a M-41, but have not pulled it apart to measure pin protrusion. I've misplaced my Dychem. I want to smear the firing pin nose and see if it makes contact with the cylinder recess face. I don't think it does, but a Dychem contact check would prove it once and for all.

Folks have obviously broken firing pins and peened breach faces on all types of rimfires, but I still wonder if S&W revolvers or autos break them from contacting the cylinder (breach) recess face or bottoming the firing pin shoulder against the frame, or if they break them at all. Bottoming a firing pin collar on the frame spreads contact stresses over a larger area, normally decreasing the chance of breaking the pin. I love mechanical puzzles. Remember "Stump the Chumps" on Car Talk?

 

[ggibson511960]

Citoris Cock Ejector Hammers on Action Closing

Just so you know... On an Over and Under Shotgun with Auto Ejectors, snapping the hammers (dropping the hammers on snap caps is the same as firing the gun with live ammunition for all intents and purposes) cocks the hammers on the ejectors so they're ready to eject the "empty hulls" when the action is opened. So as long as you're keeping your O/U shotgun fully assembled, either the Firing Pin Hammers, or your Ejector Hammers are going to be in the cocked state, and thus under tension. The only way to avoid this situation is to break the shotgun down (separate the barrel from the receiver) when it's not in use.

Personally, I don't think you can hurt the springs, either set, by leaving them in tension, that's why I don't use snap caps for the purpose you have described. I've put over 75,000 rounds through my Browning XT Trap over the last 12 years, and never used a snap cap on it, nor have I ever taken it down between shoots.

Result is the same, but the hammer fall does not cock the ejectors. Action closing cocks the ejector hammers. Opening the action moves the extractors, cocks the hammers then trips ejector sears on fired chamber(s). Here is detailed explanation from a knowledgeable Citori gunsmith.

https://www.gun-tests.com/special_r...i-american-gunsmith-13959-1.html#.XD05gPZFxzk

If you want to un-cock everything, open up the gun, letting both ejectors fire, take the barrels off, push the top lever and let it release to center, then fire the hammers. Now you have everything un-cocked, but must store it disassembled to leave it that way. As you note, it doesn't hurt Citoris to store forever with everything cocked. Sear face and spring metallurgy is too good to let anything deteriorate.

 

[captainwayne]

Remove the firing pin and thus the related issues!

 

[Roller Delayed]

Remove the firing pin and thus the related issues!

Are you then smacking the aluminum frame with the hammer?