Electric Vehicle Stupidity - Update Post 288

[BC38]

Is you oven or stove gas or electric! If Electric than you have a 240-volt power source on your property! As for apartments, that between you and your apartment management to work out…


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Dude! Do you even understand the difference between a 120v circuit and a 240v circuit?
Yes, it is true that if your breaker panel is wired for 2 or more 120v power phases, then you CAN install a 240v circuit. Assuming that your breaker panel is set up for it.
But that doesn't mean you just magically have a 240v circuit available. That kind of circuit has to be WIRED and INSTALLED.

It can't just be "replicated" out of thin air, and that kind of installation costs MONEY. Like $1000-$2000 of cold hard cash.
You really have no clue about the real world do you?

 

[BC38]

Sorry - I don't own a garage.

If the cake is chocolate it may have a bit too much caffeine and could exacerbate arguments.

Yeah, once again, no logical arguments, so default to snark.
That adds a lot to the debate.

My argument is give the people a CHOICE. Rather than forcing a "one size fits all" solution (that really doesn't fit us all) down our throats. You on the other hand seem to be all for using the power of the government to force us all to accept what they mandate as being "for our own good".

 

[Secundius]

Dude! Do you even understand the difference between a 120v circuit and a 240v circuit?
Yes, it is true that if your breaker panel is wired for 2 or more 120v power phases, then you CAN install a 240v circuit. Assuming that your breaker panel is set up for it.
But that doesn't mean you just magically have a 240v circuit available. That kind of circuit has to be WIRED and INSTALLED.

It can't just be "replicated" out of thin air, and that kind of installation costs MONEY. Like $1000-$2000 of cold hard cash.
You really have no clue about the real world do you?

If you have Central AC in your home, or and Electric Furnace or electric Range/Oven in your home, than you have a dedicated 220/240-volt power system running in your house, whether you decide to use it or not…


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[BC38]

If you have Central AC in your home, or and Electric Furnace or electric Range/Oven in your home, than you have a dedicated 220/240-volt power system running in your house, whether you decide to use it or not…


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OK, so since you seem so knowledgeable about electrical power, please explain to all of us what it takes to get a 240V circuit in the average, ordinary home that is wired for 120v. And further, please also explain how the fact that such a home that already has a 240v circuit can add another at little or no cost.

What exactly is this 240v "dedicated power system" you speak of, and what does it take to expand it to include an EV charging station - without the use of "3D printing replication" of course?

This should be entertaining...

 

[Grayfox]

It seems that a whole new issue has come to light. I saw this on the evening news. Batteries are heavy! EVs are as much as several thousand pounds heavier than ICE vehicles. So when they are involved in an accident, more weight means more damage and a much higher likelihood of serious injury. Especially to the other vehicle.

Story Here

 

[BC38]

It seems that a whole new issue has come to light. I saw this on the evening news. Batteries are heavy! EVs are as much as several thousand pounds heavier than ICE vehicles. So when they are involved in an accident, more weight means more damage and a much higher likelihood of serious injury. Especially to the other vehicle.

Story Here

No problem. I LOVE my EV - let them eat cake!

 

[Secundius]

OK, so since you seem so knowledgeable about electrical power, please explain to all of us what it takes to get a 240V circuit in the average, ordinary home that is wired for 120v. And further, please also explain how the fact that such a home that already has a 240v circuit can add another at little or no cost.

What exactly is this 240v "dedicated power system" you speak of, and what does it take to expand it to include an EV charging station - without the use of "3D printing replication" of course?

This should be entertaining...

In your neighborhood, we're all the houses constructed their built around the same time, where or not their using Gas or Electric!/? Then it's likely you have a 220/240-volt electrical supply in your house whether you know it or not…


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[BC38]

Home AC units typically operate at 220/240-watts…


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"220/240 WATTS" - REALLY? Forgive me for pointing out that your complete and total IGNORANCE of this topic is showing...

Do you even know what a WATT is?

FWIW a typical home AC unit operates on 220-240 VOLTS, and volts and Watts aren't the same thing - not even close...

 

[BC38]

In your neighborhood, we're all the houses constructed their built around the same time, where or not their using Gas or Electric!/? Then it's likely you have a 220/240-volt electrical supply in your house whether you know it or not…


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Again, please explain to all of us what a 220/240-volt electrical supply is and how it works. Otherwise you are just spouting nonsense that you read somewhere...

It isn't a matter of whether or not your electrical service installation is capable of 220v/240v service - it is a matter of whether or not you have the spare 220v-240v CIRCUIT installed and available for use - or whether you would have to HAVE that circuit installed to charge your EV....

You continue to spout nonsense in support of EV's and the more you post the clearer it becomes that you really have no clue.

FWIW, my neighborhood was built in the late 1970's (the electrical permit for my home is dated 1977). Yes, I have a 240v circuit for my clothes dryer, and another for my HVAC unit. BUT, I don't have any "extra" unused 240v circuits already installed that I could use to connect an EV charger. The only way to get another 240v circuit for an EV charger would be to INSTALL one.

To install an EV charger would require installing an ADDITIONAL 240v circuit. At a cost of a couple of thousand dollars - and that is assuming that there is space in my existing breaker panel to add another 240v circuit. If not, then the price to install another sub-panel for the EV charger circuit would add another $500 or so to the total cost.

As a service manager for an electrical contracting company I did this kind of estimating for a living for 3+ years after I retired from my first career. People seem to think this stuff is simple, straightforward, and easy. But I can tell you from experience that is just ain't so. Retrofitting these kinds of things to existing buildings is never simple, cheap, or easy. It costs real money!

 

[Secundius]

Again, please explain to all of us what a 220/240-volt electrical supply is and how it works. Otherwise you are just spouting nonsense that you read somewhere...

It isn't a matter of whether or not your electrical service installation is capable of 220v/240v service - it is a matter of whether or not you have the spare 220v-240v CIRCUIT installed and available for use - or whether you would have to HAVE that circuit installed to charge your EV....

You continue to spout nonsense in support of EV's and the more you post the clearer it becomes that you really have no clue.

FWIW, my neighborhood was built in the late 1970's (the electrical permit for my home is dated 1977). Yes, I have a 240v circuit for my clothes dryer, and another for my HVAC unit. BUT, I don't have any "extra" unused 240v circuits already installed that I could use to connect an EV charger. The only way to get another 240v circuit for an EV charger would be to INSTALL one.

To install an EV charger would require installing an ADDITIONAL 240v circuit. At a cost of a couple of thousand dollars - and that is assuming that there is space in my existing breaker panel to add another 240v circuit. If not, then the price to install another sub-panel for the EV charger circuit would add another $500 or so to the total cost.

As a service manager for an electrical contracting company I did this kind of estimating for a living for 3+ years after I retired from my first career. People seem to think this stuff is simple straightforward, and easy, but I can tell you from experience that is just ain't so. Retrofitting these kinds of things to existing buildings is never simple, cheap, or easy.

And your Dryer and HVAC operate on two different 220/240-volt power lines coming in from the street or are they operating from the same voltage line?/! If there operating from the same line, than you also have a means of charging your car…


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[BC38]

And your Dryer and HVAC operate on two different 220/240-volt power lines coming in from the street or are they operating from the same voltage line?/! If there operating from the same line, than you also have a means of charging your car…


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No, again, your ignorance is showing.

My home, like most, is wired to bring 2 phases of a 3 phase 480v system (the grid) into my breaker panel. Installing a breaker that spans across those two phases gives me a 240v circuit. So, I have a 40a breaker installed across those two phases to power my 240v HVAC unit, and another, separate 40a breaker installed across the 2 phases to create a second circuit for my 240v electric range.

BUT to install ANOTHER 240v circuit for an EV charger would require installing a THIRD 2-phase 40a breaker in my breaker panel. Of course that is assuming that my breaker panel has space for another 2-phase 240v breaker. If not, then it would require installing a separate sub-panel to house the new breaker.

Either way it will still require running 10 gauge wire, and the conduit to house it, and the electrical boxes at both ends in order to get that power from the new breaker in the panel to the new 240v outlet for the charging station.

Does all that make sense? Do you get it now? The fact that you have 240v service available in your home does NOT mean you can have a 240v charging station for free. The installation costs are still somewhere in the $1500-$2000 range. Unless you want to try to charge your EV on an existing 120v circuit in your garage. That will only take a couple of DAYS for each recharge. Forget using it as a daily driver.

A previous homeowner converted from an electric dryer to a gas dryer and abandoned a 240v outlet in the garage? GOOD FOR YOU! You just won the EV lottery, because THEY spent the money for you to have that outlet available for your new EV charger. How many people are so lucky? Not many.

Or a previous owner of your home had an RV and spent the money to install a 240v outlet somewhere outside your home that you can now use to hook up your shiny new EV charger? SCORE! Consider yourself really lucky.

But just because someone else has already borne most of the cost of your EV charger installation doesn't mean that the same will be true for everyone. Or even for very many people.

And so we come back to my main objection - ONE SIZE DOES NOT FIT ALL! No matter how much the Emperor and his minions want to claim it will or no matter how hard they try to force us all into accepting that premise. It just ain't so.

Get it?

 

[Secundius]

No, again, your ignorance is showing.

My home, like most, is wired to bring 2 phases of a 3 phase 480v system (the grid) into my breaker panel. Installing a breaker that spans across those two phases gives me a 240v circuit. So, I have a 40a breaker installed across those two phases to power my 240v HVAC unit, and another, separate 40a breaker installed across the 2 phases to create a second circuit for my 240v electric range.

BUT to install ANOTHER 240v circuit for an EV charger would require installing a THIRD 2-phase 40a breaker in my breaker panel. Of course that is assuming that my breaker panel has space for another 2-phase 240v breaker. If not, then it would require installing a separate sub-panel to house the new breaker.

Either way it will still require running the 10 gauge wire, and the conduit to house it, and the electrical boxes at both ends from the new breaker in order to get the new 240v circuit from the breaker panel to the new outlet for the charging station.

Does all that make sense? Do you get it now? The fact that you have 240v service available in your home does NOT mean you can have a 240v charging station for free. The installation costs are somewhere in the $1500-$2000 range.

A previous homeowner converted from an electric dryer to a gas dryer and abandoned a 240v outlet in the garage? GOOD FOR YOU! THEY spent the money for you to have that outlet available for your new EV charger. How many people are so lucky? Not many.

Or a previous owner of your home had an RV and spent the money to install a 240v outlet outside that you can now use to hook up your shiny new EV charger? SCORE! Consider yourself really lucky.

But just because someone else has already borne the cost of your EV charger installation doesn't mean that the same will be true for everyone. Or even for very many people.

And so we come back to my main objection - ONE SIZE DOES NOT FIT ALL!

Get it?

So you do have the means to install one, even if it means that the circuit breaker box might have to be installed in an less than ideal location for you! Thank you! I knew we were going to get there eventually…


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[TX-Dennis]

And your Dryer and HVAC operate on two different 220/240-volt power lines coming in from the street or are they operating from the same voltage line?/! If there operating from the same line, than you also have a means of charging your car…


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So, are you sugesting that one should unplug his dryer to plug in the charger?

That wouldn't work, anyway. The typical clothes dryer is on a 30 amp circuit. Most car chargers require a 50 amp circuit, and some need more than that. Such a circuit will not be inexpensive to install, and unless you are a licensed electrician, DO NOT attempt to DIY unless you are suicidal and / or don't mind if your house burns down.

 

[oink]

If you have Central AC in your home, or and Electric Furnace or electric Range/Oven in your home, than you have a dedicated 220/240-volt power system running in your house, whether you decide to use it or not…

Yes you have a dedicated 240 for your AC or furnace. That doesn't mean you have a free 240 circuit to use for your EV charger. You can't just tie into that AC circuit. You will need another circuit and 240 breaker and appropriate wire. Unless you have great insurance and are looking to rebuild. If your panel is already next to where your EV charger is to be than it may not be that big of a deal to add the other circuit IF you have room in the panel.

I suppose it would be easy for me because I have a 240 for my air compressor and a higher amp 240 one for a welder. It would be a case of using the same outlet so it would still be only one use at a time and not a case of EV charger running on the same circuit as the AC.

 

[Racer X]

Don't worry, the politicians will be taxing EVs. Do you think they are going to forego the fuel tax?

Pennsylvania just proposed a bill that imposes a flat yearly fee of $290 per EV. I'd imagine most states will do the same.

There will certainly be taxes on the costs at the charging station too.

Add these things to the cost of EV ownership, no doubt.

in Washington, they already do. $80 to fund more charging stations. Since my Prius is a plug-in, I get dinged, AND pay gas taxes. I have pluged in 4 times in the past decade. Just not worth it. The first gen plug-ins got better fuel economy by virtue of a different battery pack. That's why I got it, not for the 12 mile battery range.

I even have an unused electric dryer outlet in the garage, so someday in the future, maybe.

 

[BC38]

So you do have the means to install one, even if it means that the circuit breaker box might have to be installed in an less than ideal location for you! Thank you! I knew we were going to get there eventually…


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Yes, I can. At a cost of around $2000 - give or take $500.

But I think the part you are missing is how that impacts the potential "savings" from driving an EV,

That AND the fact that you have to own a home to even have the option of installing the charger, AND you have to be able to afford to pay for the installation in the first place.

There are a LOT of people who can't meet BOTH of those criteria.

So, what about them? Let them eat cake?

It still comes down to the fact that "one size does NOT fit all" and that is the kind of solution the powers that be are trying to impose on us all.

 

[s&wchad]

This is getting far too emotionally charged and people are getting amped up.
We're done here...

 

[handejector]

This is getting far too emotionally charged and people are getting amped up.

I see what ya done thare.