+1. Lots of info about his family in that book.
Elmer Keith's Family.
- Thread starter smoothshooter
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+1. Lots of info about his family in that book.
gwpercle
Member
Yes , please do !
After reading "Sixguns" and buying a Ruger Blackhawk , Elmer Keith started me on a now 50+ years hobby of casting bullets , reloading and shooting handguns ... I never had the chance to meet him but would have liked to , just to say Thank You .
Gary
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I met Ted and his wife at the annual meeting of the S&WCA in Boise, ID in 2012. A good friend of mine from my graduate school days at the University of Montana had retired from Boise State and knew Ted from there and had also taught his wife biology. He was a guest at the meeting and the four of us had a great discussion about the Elmer Keith gun collection on display at Cabela's. Ted was also kind enough to donate an Elmer Keith Commemorative Model 29-3 to the S&WCA and it raised a good deal of money for the Association. Sorry to hear of his passing and about his divorce, as he and his wife were good people.
Bill Cross
Bill Cross
A good friend of mine (God rest his soul) was on an extended vacation back in the 60's, and touring the West. He was close to Salmon and wondered if he could see Elmer. He located his house and actually stopped by and said hello. Being a shooter they got along well, and when Elmer heard Bill mention he was a Plumber he mentioned his toilet had a problem which Bill immediately fixed. They had their picture taken together, both were about the same height, and that picture was in Bills family room where a group of us had drinks every Friday about 5PM. We always had show & tell with whatever someone brought as a recent gun purchase. Boy, do I miss those days.
As we grow old our "mentors" pass away.......George Nonte was a favorite gun writer of mine......Yet no one remembers him now..........At some point WE ALL pass into oblivion.
M E Morrison
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In the early 70's Maj. Nonte inspired my thirst for a .38 Super, recently satisfied.
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...and Otto Scofield
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I've mentioned this before... sort of like Jeff Cooper articles, I never much cared for George Nonte's material. Despite that, and not really knowing what a good article was, I read their stuff in the '60s.
However, Nonte was involved in the preparation of one of the most interesting gun articles ever published, at least in my opinion, and I began reading everything I could find on guns in about 1962.
Neal Knox (HANDLOADER and RIFLE magazine editor) was an excellent writer and Lee Jurras, the Super Vel guy were also involved with the article. It was a two-part series: "Duplicating Hot Factory .38s" appeared in HANDLOADER #26, July, 1970 and "Pressures of Those Hot .38s" was in HANDLOADER #27, September, 1970.
These are lengthy, detailed articles about the warmest of factory .38 ammo before anyone ever heard of +P anything. Their handloads (I think) corresponded with the factory loads. The crew of three fired lots of ammo in many revolvers to come up with the interesting results. I haven't read the articles in a long time, but they're worth reading if you can locate them. Articles of this quality are seldom seen today.
However, Nonte was involved in the preparation of one of the most interesting gun articles ever published, at least in my opinion, and I began reading everything I could find on guns in about 1962.
Neal Knox (HANDLOADER and RIFLE magazine editor) was an excellent writer and Lee Jurras, the Super Vel guy were also involved with the article. It was a two-part series: "Duplicating Hot Factory .38s" appeared in HANDLOADER #26, July, 1970 and "Pressures of Those Hot .38s" was in HANDLOADER #27, September, 1970.
These are lengthy, detailed articles about the warmest of factory .38 ammo before anyone ever heard of +P anything. Their handloads (I think) corresponded with the factory loads. The crew of three fired lots of ammo in many revolvers to come up with the interesting results. I haven't read the articles in a long time, but they're worth reading if you can locate them. Articles of this quality are seldom seen today.
gwpercle
Member
"Articles of this quality are seldom seen today "
Truer words were never spoken .
I read an article on the 38 Special in the latest "Handloader Magazine " by a fellow who has been reloading it for over 50 years ... there were exactly 0 loads in the article ...Nada , Zip ...none, what a waste ...
You would think after 50 years he could publish a few of his "pet" loads .
I miss Skeeter Skelton too ... he always had some good info .
Gary
Truer words were never spoken .
I read an article on the 38 Special in the latest "Handloader Magazine " by a fellow who has been reloading it for over 50 years ... there were exactly 0 loads in the article ...Nada , Zip ...none, what a waste ...
You would think after 50 years he could publish a few of his "pet" loads .
I miss Skeeter Skelton too ... he always had some good info .
Gary
M E Morrison
Member
I suspect that "liability" is the reason for no load data - nobody wants to get sued....
Salox
Member
Have a few interesting Keith items to share:
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Model19man
Member
I read the same article in Handloader the other day and thought "Damn Mike just phoned this one in". Normally I like most of his writing but this one just smacked of being either hurried or lazy. Maybe the editor requested a set number of words to fill a blank spot in the magazine.
Geronimo Jim
Member
I am going to the gun room now and dig out my copy of
Hell I was There .......been 20 years since I read it.
I remember thinking..."this is the best best book I ever read".
Guess I like it so much because I could relate to a lot of
it as my parents were born on a farm and had no electricity
no running water and farmed with horses.
Hell I was There .......been 20 years since I read it.
I remember thinking..."this is the best best book I ever read".
Guess I like it so much because I could relate to a lot of
it as my parents were born on a farm and had no electricity
no running water and farmed with horses.
gwpercle
Member
That is so sad ... and probably so true ...I suspect that "liability" is the reason for no load data - nobody wants to get sued....
Makes me want to cry !
Gary
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I suspect that "liability" is the reason for no load data - nobody wants to get sued....
That could be; I don't really know and I'm pretty sure many others don't know either, but "liability" is mentioned more frequently than anything else because everyone's read that over the years. Probably some truth to that, but how much?
Perhaps the method of pressure measurement is more accurate today than it was in the past. This factor alone may have significant bearing on current published data. Most, maybe all, published load data from reputable sources is pressure tested today.
That hasn't always happened. Some published load manual data was worked up in the same manner many handloaders use, citing pressure signs like flattened primers, case head expansion, and other methods that have since proven to be less than reliable in many instances.
This is all very interesting to me. I believe Ted helped with the guiding and there is a picture of him with a pack string in Sixguns, I believe. Skeeter had most of the parts for the SAA he built for Bart in his War Bag some were Christy I think. He said in the article that he wanted to have the hammer re-case hardened but there was a 50% failure rate and he had it blued and the sides polished instead. Colt SAA parts were hard to find then. I miss most of the writers mentioned here and Dean Grinnell too. I'll be 69 in June most of my mentors have gone on. Thanx for helping me remember...........
good memories
Many thanks to Gregor for filling in the family details, however sad to read. I have several of the books Elmer sent me, with the nice handwritten notes. Great informative ways to remember one of our heroes. Glad I got to see the display at Cabela's in Boise before it was taken away. I have enjoyed circling back to loading and shooting .44s w/ "Keith bullets" after years of messing around with the more "modern" guns.
Many thanks to Gregor for filling in the family details, however sad to read. I have several of the books Elmer sent me, with the nice handwritten notes. Great informative ways to remember one of our heroes. Glad I got to see the display at Cabela's in Boise before it was taken away. I have enjoyed circling back to loading and shooting .44s w/ "Keith bullets" after years of messing around with the more "modern" guns.
Gregor44Keith
Member
North Powder Oregon each year the farmers allowed small groups of hunters on the farms to kill off the overpopulated Townsend ground squirrels. Grandpa Elmer and my dad Ted took me when I was 7 and Elmer gave me a .22 Marlin semi auto rifle with a big scope. But I was born legally blind and animals hard to hit so Elmer got angry and told everyone to be quiet and stop the truck. From the top of the old International truck he taught me how to breathe then squeeze the trigger and my target was down. After that dad gave me a box of 500 22 long and said don't shoot at any people. I
was on my own Safari hunting for the giant ground squirrels of North Powder Oregon.
was on my own Safari hunting for the giant ground squirrels of North Powder Oregon.
It's really interesting reading your perspective being that you are Elmer's Grandson. Pretty amazing. The part about Ted's LIBERAL daughters really hit home and struck a chord with me in that we parents have to be very cognizant of what our children believe and what their being taught and by whom - or our children will end up just as Ted's daughters did. Thanks for posting here Gregor -
Have all of Elmer's books and those written about him. a truly remarkable man
LittleAugieMo
Member
I remember George Nonte also remember ah,er...old whats his name..the "Gain Twist" guy.
Harry Pope!
Harry Pope!
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In two of his books there are numerous pictures of his family, He'll I Was There and Keith,an Autobiography
bruce381
Member
Theodore Keith Obituary
Theodore "Ted" Keith
1935 ~ 2019
Theodore Frank Keith – A Life Well Lived
Theodore "Ted" Keith was born in Salmon, ID on December 6, 1935 to Elmer Merrifield Keith and Lorraine Katherine Randall Keith. He grew up on a ranch near North Fork by the Salmon River Primitive area, still maintained by his family today. Big responsibilities rested on young shoulders as he began hunting and packing for the family at age 12. They lived off the land without modern conveniences for many years, and later moved to Salmon and "city life." Ted spent summers working for the U.S. Forest Service as both a Fire Lookout and Smoke Jumper (40 fires), and served in the U.S. Army Reserve for seven years, earning the rank of sergeant first class. He also earned his Bachelor's Degree in Accounting at the University of Idaho, Moscow, and later his CPA and CIA.
He married Betty Heuck in 1960, worked initially for Roseburg Lumber Company, OR, then a Boise Cascade division in St. Paul, MN, before settling in Boise, ID. He next served as Director of Internal Audit for Boise State University for 30 years, until he retired. Professionally Ted was also a member, then president of the National Association for Internal Auditors. The couple had four children, and over time relocated to Sand Hollow, ID.
Ted's father Elmer was a noted hunter, author and firearms pioneer, and passed on a love of the outdoors and hunting to his son. Ted bagged bear, deer, elk, moose, antelope, ducks, pheasants, geese and wild boar. "The older I get, the smaller the game I pack out," was a favorite sentiment. Ted stewarded Elmer's big game trophy collection, firearms, and personal memorabilia, and worked with Cabelas to establish an Elmer Keith museum in Boise for many years.
Ted was also a 62-year member of Lemhi Masonic Lodge No. 11 in Salmon, Idaho. He additionally served as Potentate of the El Korah Shrine in Boise, helping support the twenty-two Shriners Hospitals for Children ®.
During his life Ted's travels included the UK, Italy, China, Canada, and more than a dozen U.S. cities, but never found country as beautiful as his home state. He enjoyed fishing, boating, camping, hiking, and spending time with his children and grandchildren. He also doted on his vintage car collection of Model Ts and Cadillacs, noting "my art collection includes classic things on wheels."
In recent years he suffered from Parkinson's disease, and passed away from complications on September 1st at age 83, eight months, while in home hospice with his daughter Heidi. He was preceded in death by his sister Dru Keith, and survived by his daughters Heather, Heidi, Holly, and son Gregor; grandsons Josh, Andrew, Damian and Connor; and granddaughters Sarah, Madison and Ashlyn.
A Vigil will be held Wednesday, September 11, 2019 at Summers Funeral Home, 1205 W. Bannock St., Boise during the hours of 5-8pm.
A Celebration of Life will be held at Summers Funeral Home, 1205 W. Bannock St., Boise, on September 12, at 10 am, followed by a luncheon reception at the Boise El Korah Shrine Temple, 1118 W. Idaho St. Final interment with Ted's father, mother and sister takes place September 14, 1 pm, at the Salmon Cemetery, South Salmon on Cemetery Road overlooking the Bitterroot Mountain Range, which Ted considered the Alps of America.
In lieu of flowers, donations can be made online in Memory of Ted Keith to the Shriners Hospital for Children in Portland, donate.lovetotherescue.org, or contact 503-241-5090.
Theodore "Ted" Keith
1935 ~ 2019
Theodore Frank Keith – A Life Well Lived
Theodore "Ted" Keith was born in Salmon, ID on December 6, 1935 to Elmer Merrifield Keith and Lorraine Katherine Randall Keith. He grew up on a ranch near North Fork by the Salmon River Primitive area, still maintained by his family today. Big responsibilities rested on young shoulders as he began hunting and packing for the family at age 12. They lived off the land without modern conveniences for many years, and later moved to Salmon and "city life." Ted spent summers working for the U.S. Forest Service as both a Fire Lookout and Smoke Jumper (40 fires), and served in the U.S. Army Reserve for seven years, earning the rank of sergeant first class. He also earned his Bachelor's Degree in Accounting at the University of Idaho, Moscow, and later his CPA and CIA.
He married Betty Heuck in 1960, worked initially for Roseburg Lumber Company, OR, then a Boise Cascade division in St. Paul, MN, before settling in Boise, ID. He next served as Director of Internal Audit for Boise State University for 30 years, until he retired. Professionally Ted was also a member, then president of the National Association for Internal Auditors. The couple had four children, and over time relocated to Sand Hollow, ID.
Ted's father Elmer was a noted hunter, author and firearms pioneer, and passed on a love of the outdoors and hunting to his son. Ted bagged bear, deer, elk, moose, antelope, ducks, pheasants, geese and wild boar. "The older I get, the smaller the game I pack out," was a favorite sentiment. Ted stewarded Elmer's big game trophy collection, firearms, and personal memorabilia, and worked with Cabelas to establish an Elmer Keith museum in Boise for many years.
Ted was also a 62-year member of Lemhi Masonic Lodge No. 11 in Salmon, Idaho. He additionally served as Potentate of the El Korah Shrine in Boise, helping support the twenty-two Shriners Hospitals for Children ®.
During his life Ted's travels included the UK, Italy, China, Canada, and more than a dozen U.S. cities, but never found country as beautiful as his home state. He enjoyed fishing, boating, camping, hiking, and spending time with his children and grandchildren. He also doted on his vintage car collection of Model Ts and Cadillacs, noting "my art collection includes classic things on wheels."
In recent years he suffered from Parkinson's disease, and passed away from complications on September 1st at age 83, eight months, while in home hospice with his daughter Heidi. He was preceded in death by his sister Dru Keith, and survived by his daughters Heather, Heidi, Holly, and son Gregor; grandsons Josh, Andrew, Damian and Connor; and granddaughters Sarah, Madison and Ashlyn.
A Vigil will be held Wednesday, September 11, 2019 at Summers Funeral Home, 1205 W. Bannock St., Boise during the hours of 5-8pm.
A Celebration of Life will be held at Summers Funeral Home, 1205 W. Bannock St., Boise, on September 12, at 10 am, followed by a luncheon reception at the Boise El Korah Shrine Temple, 1118 W. Idaho St. Final interment with Ted's father, mother and sister takes place September 14, 1 pm, at the Salmon Cemetery, South Salmon on Cemetery Road overlooking the Bitterroot Mountain Range, which Ted considered the Alps of America.
In lieu of flowers, donations can be made online in Memory of Ted Keith to the Shriners Hospital for Children in Portland, donate.lovetotherescue.org, or contact 503-241-5090.
BLACKHAWKNJ
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Families seems to fade out after 3-4, at most 5 g.enerations. Read about the Bach family in music. And battles over inheritances and estates are probably the No.1 cause of family estrangement.
SGT ROCK 11B
Member
Children and grandchildren have free will so we have no control over their direction.
Just like in "Yellowstone". Do they want the ranch lifestyle or cashout? When the Patriarch of a very wealthy Utah family died. They sold their mega-ranch. His elderly wife bought a multi million dollar condo in Manhattan. One of their children bought an estate in Honolulu. The other in Florida. After 100+ years in Utah no one lives there now.
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OP
smoothshooter
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I was one of George Nonte's biggest fans. Read and reread every article of hisI could find.
BLACKHAWKNJ
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IIRC C. George Charles was one of Nonte's pen names.
Capt. F.
Member
I was always a fan of your grandfather and his writing. When I got my first Model 29 in 1971 I thought I had graduated into the big league!
I was working for AT&T at the time and had free access to the long distance circuits. So, I did the logical thing and called Elmer for loading instructions. We talked like old friends for over a half hour. He was very cordial and told me to call any time.
Wish I could have met him face to face.
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