ESR division going bye bye?

[Waywatcher]

MattNH,

The net result of your proposed changes would be
To win CDP, run a 9mm 1911. 45s won't be competitive anymore.
To win SSP, run a big 9mm. Small guns will still be non competitive.
To win Revolver, run an 8 shot .38 special with moon clips. 6 shooters won't be competitive anymore.
To win Open, run as big and heavy a gun as allowed, with as many modifications as allowed. Basically IPSC open.

I don't really like any of those ideas.

I think splitting people out of SSP to create a new CSP (compact service pistol) class will be the best idea and most in line with IDPA stands for. It will also reduce the size of the biggest division.

 

[Gryff]

If IDPA wants to be relevant, they should cater to the CCW folks. There's already USPSA for running a Glock 34 with 10 rounds in the mag.

You're a little confused on your history. There is a place in USPSA for the Glock 34 because of IDPA. Before IDPA was founded, there was no Production Division in USPSA. The reason the division was created was because IDPA demonstrated the popularity of self-defense style pistols in competition.

The exact same is true for Single Stack division.

 

[dynamike]

Do they really consider a G19 a "compact" carry gun? Someone should tell all the PD's that they are packing CCW pistols and not service pistols! A optics division? Really? People CCW these? This only serves to show how far from the shoot what you carry concept they have come. Why does this new team feel like they have to change everything? They remind me of automobile engineers...unless they change this that work, they won't have a job...always looking to build a better mousetrap or redesign the wheel. Heck, just a little while ago, some "gun expert" writing for the IDPA mag advocated doing away with ALL revo divisions!

 

[old&slow]

A optics division? Really? People CCW these? This only serves to show how far from the shoot what you carry concept they have come. !

A couple years ago, over the winter, one of the local indoor ranges thought it would be fun to have a Conceal Carry shoot. I showed up with my S&W m-60 2 1/8" revolver. Several others showed up with their Glock 17's, 34's & 35's ,, full size 1911's,, etc..

One of the very few times I went to a IDPA match I had my 3" Kimber 1911. Again Glock 34's , 35's , full size this and that everywhere..

Really conceal carry guns ?? Really ?? I know lots of shooters,, cops ,, etc.. Only one maybe two guys I know, actually carry a full size 1911. A couple sometimes carry a G 17 /22. But, No one I know actually carries a G34 / 35.

" But, Really this IS my actual Carry gun ! " ,,, Ahhhhh Right ? ,, I don't really care, but it is funny ..

 

[Mushki]

Not trying to sound as though I know it all or anything like that. This is only my opinion.

In my area there are two types of guys shooting revolvers, older gentleman who really enjoy shooting them and some other shooters who want to win in a division. Personally the guys who are really not good shooters at all that are chasing a win in the revolver divisions are sad to me. I shoot ssp and some CDP but do not care about the occasional class win I pick up. I just want to be top ten overall, none of the class/division stuff matters to me. If I shot a gun that did not fit into a division locally they would still allow me to shoot just not for the wins and I would be fine with that.

I hope they do not go the optic route because there would be a fair number of poor shooters doing way better than they would deserved verses the rest of the non optic shooters but hey who really cares. I predict that half of the guys currently shooting revolvers would move to the optics in my local clubs just to beat a few of the seasoned shooter for hollow victories. That and I really do not want to buy a new gun for competition only uses, because I hate losing to guys who do not have any real skills.

End of rant.

I personally would shoot at least half of the local matches with my carry gun no matter what the rule change, I already have been for years. A new division that would give me an advantage would be fine with me but really I do not care, I just want to beat some of my friends overall on currently only one of them is in my class/division who would no longer be if the rules change. Now if he went from his 34 to his carry gun the race would be on.

 

[oldafsp]

My biggest concern is how IDPA intends to meld ESR and SSR.

Let's face it, full moon clips are at least a full second faster on reloads than speed loaders. So now the rimmed cartridge shooters move further down the food chain.

Since the rules on stage design changed, every sanctioned match I have attended this year designed it's stages for semi auto pistol shooters. Rarely do you find a stage that gives wheel gunners a fighting chance anymore.

I know, I know...shoot a competitive pistol instead of that old antiquated wheelgun. How about the equipment inspector that I ran into at my last sanctioned match. Questioned me on my revolver being legal for SSR. "Unauthorized modification" removal of the rear sight he said...WHAT ?!?!?!?! Are you kidding me?

He had never seen what I was shooting that day. A Model 681. He had to check with the match director, who thankfully was knowledgeable about revolvers. Another shooter was using a Model 64 that day. Wow, TWO fixed sight wheelies in a single match !!!

If your not running a black pistol, your not flowing in the mainstream I guess.

Glad I didn't invest over 1K in a 625 like I was going to for next year. Just waiting to see what happens next.

 

[old&slow]

I know, I know...shoot a competitive pistol instead of that old antiquated wheelgun. How about the equipment inspector that I ran into at my last sanctioned match. Questioned me on my revolver being legal for SSR. "Unauthorized modification" removal of the rear sight he said...WHAT ?!?!?!?! Are you kidding me?

He had never seen what I was shooting that day. A Model 681. He had to check with the match director, who thankfully was knowledgeable about revolvers.
/

Now , That is Funny !!

 

[Pizza Bob]

We are all collectively holding our breath. Personally, I have to question the 3% number they purport. What is that based on? My bet would be sanctioned matches. The story may be different at the club level where more people, that wouldn't think of shooting a sanctioned match with a revolver, would give it a try, just for fun. Some of those go on and pursue competitive wheelguns to the extreme - that's your 3%. But the majority of revolver shooters are at the club level.

Just waiting to see what they screw-up next. Obviously they've never heard the old saw, "If it ain't broken, don't fix it."

Adios,

Pizza Bob

 

[manyguns]

I was an IDPA match director and safety officer instructor when they only had 4 divisions. 5" 625s were legal then. When they decided that they would change to 4" max. they basically said "tough luck' to the people who had purchased 5" revolvers. Then they added ESR to "make it fair". They started out saying they wanted to be vested in the club level matches but that quickly changed to the emphasis being on sponsored shooters at sanctioned matches. Now they are run by a committee and the rule changes make even less sense. Our club left when they basically told us that we exist to support the big national events and little more. A few people carry full sized service weapons concealed but they are the minority. The claim that they represent the real world of carry guns has been lost to them for a long time. Of course there is room now for a new sport to fill that niche.

 

[S&WIowegan]

I shoot IDPA-style matches at two local clubs, but I will NEVER join the IDPA national org. That's based on a number of direct personal experiences with Bill Wilson including having Wilson Combat do a build for me. I also remember when he demanded USPSA ban any mag over 10 rounds or he would withdraw his sponsor support for USPSA matches. We refused and he left...good riddance.

I don't care how they change the rules. I shoot whatever I feel like and the club is happy to get my entry fees.

 

[not-fishing]

An old revolver shooter

7 years ago my #2 son and I started shooting IDPA with semis. We had so much trouble with them we switched to wheelguns. I shoot a 625 in ESR and the #2 & #3 son shoot 686 SSR's. Because we began shooting wheelguns we learned to make shots count and trigger control. Something the National should consider.

All shooters should start with revolvers to learn trigger control and how to shoot without the big magazine crutch otherwise let's just open it up to 30 round mags.

Back when IDPA was being founded the CDP division was closely tailored to keep 1911's alive and well -- otherwise ESP/SSP would eliminate them. (Apparently all classes are created equal but some are more equal than others) So 3% is bad but 6% is good??? I shoot both classes

The real reason ESR is being eliminated is the power factor is set so high that most people don't want to take the pounding.

If they add a CCP class the barrel length should be limited to 3 1/2" or even 3" with a corresponding limit to 6 rounds. They could be wheelguns or semi's. Only then would they be truly compact

 

[Canuck44]

I am not sure where the 3% comes in BUT only 74 shooters classified in 2014 to shoot ESR. 74! I know for a fact two of those shooters used either the Ruger GP-100 or the 686 in .357Mag to classify. I was one of them and one other fellow from our club classified using his 686.

We are going to see the two divisions combined with the moon clip guns shooting at a slightly lower PF, down from 165 to remove some of the hurt. It will be interesting to see if this helps or just ends revolver division. I would have preferred IDPA to just let the 625 die out. The ESR Division was really a one gun division and at that limited to the US in the main. S&W never did make a 4.2" 625. Had they, I think SSR would have survived as is and grown now that Ruger and S&W are both making competition guns for the Division. I have both a Ruger GP-100 and a 686 Smith. I use the 686 as back up. You really cannot tell the difference when shooting both guns. The Ruger is one once lighter and has better sights than my 686. The latter are just stock notch & post.

Take Care

Bob
ps I agree with the fellow who suggested they should have left the 5" guns in ESR. With USPSA making the six shot revolver obsolete there would have been a lot of the guns up for sale. IPSC may follow USPSA by going to 8 shot revolvers as well.

 

[Lee's Landing Billy]

Wouldn't a 4" 625 with 45AR and speedloaders be an SSR? 250gr bullets @ 425 fps would be interesting...

I like the way you think!!!!!!