Expander die

[MJFlores]

I'm wondering if I'm the only one who's stopped using an expander die when reloading typical revolver cases such as .44, .38, .357, etc? The last few hundred rounds I've loaded for my .44, I didn't bother expanding the case mouth and everything turned out fine. I'm using a single stage press, and the bullets are plated (I don't think I'd try it with lead ). Anyway, I get to skip a step and in my mind working the brass a little less is always a good thing. Just wondering who else does this.

 

[JBnTx]

Expanding the case is a very important reloading step that should not be skipped.
You risk damaging the bullet which might affect the bullet plating, and even cause leading with coated bullets.

Not to mention crushing the brass case if the bullet just refuses to enter the case mouth.

..

 

[SMSgt]

I've never had a problem with over working the brass.

 

[sophie]

Looks like you may be one of the few who stopped using the expander die. I still use my expander die in all my loadings and I have a one at a time old RCBS JR press.

 

[MJFlores]

I dont know...we dont expand rifle cases. With my .44, the bullets sit on the mouth of the case, and the die aligns them and they slide right in just seating any of the rifle cartridges I load. Decided to try it and it worked great so I stopped using the expander doe last summer. Again, I bet lead bullets would possibly shave but plated a jackets seem to slip right in, and I'm getting excellent accuracy.

 

[Mad_Charlie]

I dont know...we dont expand rifle cases. With my .44, the bullets sit on the mouth of the case, and the die aligns them and they slide right in just seating any of the rifle cartridges I load. Decided to try it and it worked great so I stopped using the expander doe last summer. Again, I bet lead bullets would possibly shave but plated a jackets seem to slip right in, and I'm getting excellent accuracy.

Hey, if you're happy, I'm happy, but I use a certain amount of "neck tension" even on my straight walled pistol and revolver cases. To this end I custom make my expander plugs, I shoot primarily cast and I don't want to size my softer bullets with the case as the bullet is seated.

Do as thou wilt...

 

[DWalt]

"I dont know...we dont expand rifle cases"

Huh? Doesn't your FL resizing die have a neck expander button on the decapping rod? I've never seen a set for a bottleneck rifle cartridge which didn't.

 

[MJFlores]

I wasn't saying I don't resize my cases, I simply don't run them through an expander die prior to seating. Was just looking to see if others have moved to this, I must be the odd ball It could be the bullets I'm using, havent tried it with another brand or style but I have a bunch of Berry's and they slide right in.

 

[Leonard]

I always use an expander on straight walled cases. Pistol bullets tend to be flat based, most rifle bullets will have a slight taper at base.

 

[JBnTx]

...It could be the bullets I'm using, havent tried it with another brand or style but I have a bunch of Berry's and they slide right in.

I think you're just lucky with that brand of bullet and cases. Sooner or later you're going to run across a combination where the bullet just crushes the case as you try to seat it. Then you'll understand why expanding is so important.

 

[MJFlores]

In the meantime, try not using an expander when loading your next pistol cartridges, you may be surprised. Could be that expander dies were needed for lead bullets, but really aren't for plated or jacketed bullets. It's worth experimenting anyways.

I noticed you can buy a pretty expensive set of pistol dies from Redding, that comes with a sizer, seater, and crimp die...no seater included. Maybe it's the wave of the future...

 

[scott1970]

I dont know...we dont expand rifle cases. With my .44, the bullets sit on the mouth of the case, and the die aligns them and they slide right in just seating any of the rifle cartridges I load. Decided to try it and it worked great so I stopped using the expander doe last summer. Again, I bet lead bullets would possibly shave but plated a jackets seem to slip right in, and I'm getting excellent accuracy.

I use the Lyman M die to expand the cases on my .35 Remington brass, because I shoot homemade powder coated bullets.

 

[Magload]

If I don't bell the case mouth a little I find it hard to set the bullet stright on top of the case to seat it. I use Berry's platted for 5 different handgun calibers plus coated bullets. Don

 

[ontargetagain]

I would guess the bullets you are seating without first expanding have a taper bottom to them which would sure help getting them started. I think you can expand the case without belling the mouth if you want to put less stress on the brass but just think of what it actually goes through when you fire off the round in the chamber! There is a whole lot of expansion and contraction and it survives just fine, usually

To reduce the risk of shaving plating and to start and seat the bullet more squarely I think proper expansion of the case is a good idea. Also depending on choice of seating stem it is possible to distort the bullet nose with the additional amount of force needed to seat it. I can't imagine not properly expanding and slight belling to correctly seat lead bullets for best accuracy.

Expansion without 'belling' the mouth might be a better compromise. I wonder if your resizing die is slightly oversized that it allows you to put in the Berry's without expanding as that won't work with my Lee or Lyman resizing dies.

Thanks for sharing your findings, its always good to hear of other success stories and learn from others trials.
Karl

 

[imakmst]

I've made the mistake of loading a case without expanding it first. Was not pretty.

 

[rwsmith]

I just bell the mouth....

I just bell the mouth of the case slightly. If you can get by with skipping that step, more power to you. My bullets tend to catch on the edge of the mouth and crinkle it, or worse.

 

[fla_gun]

I noticed you can buy a pretty expensive set of pistol dies from Redding, that comes with a sizer, seater, and crimp die...no seater included. Maybe it's the wave of the future...

That would be the die sets from Redding for progressive presses that have already have a expander/powder dispenser die.

In all due respect I think you are barking up the wrong tree telling people to try not expanding pistol cases.

 

[Nemo288]

Quite the opposite.
I have 3 or 4 expander stems of various diameters to match the bullets I am loading at the moment.
RCBS once sent me by mistake a stem that had not been ground down and was .430".
I thought the bullets were loose! They were.
Later I discovered this could be use with oversized .432" bullets.
I write the size on the top of each stem and now have a die frame for most of them so they can stay set-up.
For consistancy's sake, I like to keep the fit at -.002".
That's a radial .001 interference.
Keeps cast and plated bullets from deforming and yet enough to hold copper bullets in place.

===
Nemo

 

[MJFlores]

That would be the die sets from Redding for progressive presses that have already have a expander/powder dispenser die.

In all due respect I think you are barking up the wrong tree telling people to try not expanding pistol cases.

I wouldn't want anyone to try anything that's out of their comfort zone...and of course I'm not telling people they have to do it. I was just seeing if others are doing what I started doing last summer. No big deal...what I'm doing is working well for me, but nobody else has to try it. The last thing I wanted was to start a seemingly negative post. Mods you can lock or delete this one if you want. Sorry everyone.

 

[Nemo288]

Always interesting to see the wide variety of things going on out there.
All of it was experimental to us the first few times we tried something.
I am sure there are some details of my method few people use.
I have picked up tricks and tips along the way for decades now.

For instance I never knew that by "swirling" powder down the side of the funnel so it goes in sort of a helical pattern down into the case, you can get a better pack and fit more tubular powder in a case without having to crush it with the bullet.
Metallic-Cartridge-Handloading
There is a hard cover version too.

Some "experts" recommend seating the bullet down into the case to take up the unused space to
increase accuracy in the big cylindrical cases like the 44 and 45 (McPherson is one of them).
Yet others want the bullet as close to the throat as possible to minimize the free space jump.
You never know what will work for you until you try it.
With revolvers darn near anything is possible.

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Nemo