F-105 Thundrchief in SE Asia War

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During the Vietnam war, our primary air-to-air fighter was the F-4 Phantom. The F-105 seems to have been used mainly to bomb.

Anyone know how it performed against MiG's? It was fast, but may not have been maneuverable enough to fare well in air combat. ??
 
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The F-105 "Thud" was more known for its use as a SAM hunter in the Wild Weasel application than as a dog fighter. They were supposed to find and destroy the SAM sites. Sometimes they did this by drawing fire from the SAM launchers. I believe I once read a book about the Thuds and their pilots.
 
The F-105 "Thud" was more known for its use as a SAM hunter in the Wild Weasel application than as a dog fighter. They were supposed to find and destroy the SAM sites. Sometimes they did this by drawing fire from the SAM launchers. I believe I once read a book about the Thuds and their pilots.

But the Phantoms were also used as Wild Weasels" - it was felt that having a separate set of eyes was valuable - especially since they weren't busy flying the aircraft. I once worked with a Weasel pilot - he was still slightly crazy. :eek:
 
F-105 was built for nuclear low level, high speed delivery in Europe. They were tough as nails. If they caught a MiG at low level they might do okay, not so much at high altitude. In 1966 I got my one and only F-105 ride at Nellis AFB. It was a thrill. We did a low level, high speed inert nuclear bomb toss on the range. Back then I was 6 foot tall and was amazed I could walk under the plane at the wing root. I never realized it was that big.
 
wild weasels...

But the Phantoms were also used as Wild Weasels" - it was felt that having a separate set of eyes was valuable - especially since they weren't busy flying the aircraft. I once worked with a Weasel pilot - he was still slightly crazy. :eek:

I read that at one point in the war the "attrition rate" was 73% with Wild weasels, IIRC.
 
IIRC the 105's only recorded something like 20 or 25 air to air kills during their entire use in VN. They had a very efficient 20mm gun in the nose, and I do know the later models had an improved sighting system.

A 105 loaded to it's max bomb load was a heck of a sight. Been a long time, but I think they held a max of 16000 pounds of bombs.
 
I had a close friend that held the record for Wild Weasel Flights in Nam. After 252 missions they sent him home. Last name is Bowling.

regards

yashua
 
I knew a connected guy who did about 5 or 6 WW missions in the Thud..Then he was transferred into something else. He later made General. He did say honestly it was pucker time once he got painted with G to A radar... I do understand that...but considered he was making his bones for the future. I was told he WAS a good pilot though... by another friend that made 2 stars. I got a back seat ride in a F-4 with him... I considered him just a little crazy.... but... so was I.
 
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Our penchant....

Out penchant for using platforms designed for nuclear delivery in conventional combat roles really cooked our goose. The only thing that overcame this was the pilots and planes themselves. Consequently the Thud, a mighty bomber, was the only plane every pulled from service due to attrition rate. They could carry more bombs than a B-17 or B-24. One role that it excelled and continued in until the end of the war was the Wild Weasel.

BTW In spite of their size they had good guns and with improved sights could shoot down planes. Two Wild Weasels did their missile suppression duties and shot down two Mig 17s the same day. It was given fighter attributes that gave it some air to air capabilities but by the time of Vietnam, it was just outdated.
 
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A few comments on some of the posts above, and the F-105 in general:

1. 382 F-105Ds and F's were lost in South East Asia, 320 in combat and 62 in operational accidents in the course of over 20,000 sorties in SEA, representing a loss rate of 1 aircraft every 62.5 sorties.

That sounds like a lot and it was, but you have to consider that until the 1968 bombing halt, the F-105s were flying a very high percentage of missions over Route Packs 5 and 6A - the most heavily defended airspace in history. After the bombing halt the Thuds were more often than not flying over Laos bombing very heavily defended sections of the ** Chi Minh trail, so their level of risk was very high as well.

This risk was also made far worse, by micromanagement of the air war over North Vietnam, including dictating predictable routes, times and flight altitudes by bureaucrats in the Pentagon and state department, something that made it far easier for the North Vietnamese to down F-105s.

2. The F-105 losses compare to 445 F-4s lost in total,including 382 in combat. The F-4 did not become the USAF's principal ground attack aircraft in SEA until after the F-105Ds and F-100Cs and Ds went home in 1970-1971.

3. The F-105s flew twice as many sorties over North Vietnam than any other aircraft type, however, by 1970, the loss of 382 aircraft our of only 610 F-105Ds and a handful of F-105 F/G aircraft meant that the F-105 was getting hard to support in the field due to the dwindling numbers.

However, it's not accurate to imply that the F-105 was pulled out of combat due to the high loss rate or the inability of the aircraft to handle the mission.

The fact was that nothing was faster on the deck than the F-105 and it was very well suited to the conventional air to ground fighter bomber role, despite it's origins as a high level nuclear bomber.

4. The F-105 scored 27.5 kills against MiGs in SEA, 3 of them with AIM 9s and the rest with the 20mm cannon. This compares to 17 losses due to MiGs in SEA.

The F-105 didn't turn well, due to the same high wing loading that gave it excellent capability in high speed, low level flight, but it was fast and it accelerated well, giving it the ability to determine when the fight started and ended.

5. A number of F-105Fs were modified with all weather radar and bombing capability under the Commando Nail project and these became the genesis of the F-105G Wild Weasel III aircraft.

The F-105G actually replaced the unsuccessful F-4C Wild Weasel II, and the earlier F-100F Wild Weasel I aircraft. (The US Navy's counterpart to the Wild Weasels were the modified Iron Hand A-4E Skyhawk and A-6B Intruder).

The F-100F was replaced as it didn't have the range at high speed and low level to enable it to loiter in the target area long enough to cover a strike from start to finish.

The first effort to convert the F-4C to the Wild Weasel role was not successful, but eventually the attrition in the F-105 F/G aircraft forced the USAF to revisit the concept and this resulted in the F-4C Wild Weasel IV, and eventually in the F-4G Wild Weasel V, converted from F-4E airframes.

All of the above aircraft, with the exception of the A-4E Skyhawks, were two seat aircraft. It was however not uncommon to pair a Wild Weasel F-105G with a single seat F-105D to put iron bombs on a SAM site after the F-105G took out or forced the shut down of the SAM site's radar.
 
My last exposure to 105's was in 1962 at Wheelus AFB Tripoli Libya. Our
Squadron of F84's was next to a Squadron of 105's. (Wheelus was a training base where Squadrons from all over Europe came for bombing and gunnery practice in the desert). One night on routine leak check a crew chief was running up one of the 105's (which was parked directly in line with a second one broadside) and accidentally hit AB without tie downs in place. That dart nose made a perfect spear into the second one just behind the cockpit. Really made a mess out of both of them. I never did hear if they were repairable or not.
 
Two excellent books about flying the F-105 in combat are "GOING DOWNTOWN" and "RUPERT RED TWO" written by John or Jack (not sure which, books are on the bottom of my stack) Broughton. He flew them and gives seat-gripping descriptions of the combat and politics involved.

F-105's were based at Hill AFB north of Salt Lake City and flew low level practice missions in the mountain valleys of Utah. I remember a couple of times fishing from an inflatable in Smith & Moorehouse reservoir and getting the **** scared out of me by pairs of Thuds coming down the valley at warp six and 50 feet. They were on you and gone before you even knew they were there.

When the Air Force phased them out, they had a mustering out ceremony at Hill (called "Thud Out") which included a flight by 6 or 7 of them around the Wasatch Front. They were very loud and made a fine sight in their camo against the Wasatch Mountains. It was the only time I ever saw Thuds flying in the Salt Lake valley.
 
HRichard-

Were those F-84F's? How long did they stay in service? I've posted before that the Thunderbirds flew them in the 1950's and one let me sit in the cockpit of his plane. I built a model of the F-84F after that.

I think the F version with swept wings was quite a bit faster than the original F-84 Thunderjet. The F form was called the Thunderstreak. I don't think it ever saw combat, arriving too late for Korea.
 
In the pics of the F-105 above, some bombs have what look to me like very long fuses. Are those laser guided bombs? Why else are the fuses (?) so long?

I don't know much about bombs, obviously. I was in the USAF, but never got to talk much to bomb ordnance people. We have some on the board. I hope they'll share their knowledge about what our fighter- bombers and attack planes carry.
 

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