TheGreatGonzo
US Veteran
This was the same reasoning the Gun Vault used to shrink down the POW list to next-to-nothing. And the reasoning they cited for wanting to go to "nothing but Glocks".
Gonzo
-
Forum Update: We've upgraded the software to improve security, performance, and the overall experience.
👉 Read why we made the change | Support the Forum
F.B.I. why .10mm. over .45ACP. ?
- Thread starter DC3-CVN-72
- Start date
This was the same reasoning the Gun Vault used to shrink down the POW list to next-to-nothing. And the reasoning they cited for wanting to go to "nothing but Glocks".
Gonzo
That's nice. Sounds like yet another case of Americans not thinking like Americans.
dmc8163
Member
Didn't the original Glock contract with the FBI expire?
sigp220.45
US Veteran
Yeah, I think we're buying off the DEA contract right now.
The blast and recoil were a bit much for some of the smaller and lighter personnel. When they finally came up with the "FBI Load" of a 180gr bullet at 900+fps, some genius figured out that performance level could be reached in a smaller cartridge AND a smaller grip for smaller shooters.
Thus was born the 40 S&W cartridge....
Sorry, I missed that part of his post. I always assumed that the origional Norma load was issued initially and later the Federal load.
Having shot a substantial amount of the Norma JHP's thru my 1066, I never really understood why anyone would make the claim that is was too difficult to control or qualify with. I really never felt much difference between them and the 175 STHP.
LuddhaBuddha
Member
You better let me know cuz I wanna come tooo.
Calfed
Member
And , of course, now they have suspended any new POW's for the time being.
I emailed the genius that made that decision and told him that to end a program that has worked so well for so long with three weeks notice was unconscionable. It didn't do any good, but I felt better afterward
sigp220.45
US Veteran
They swear it is just a power play to force the hiring of more gunsmiths at the vault, but I wouldn't be surprised if the POW program never came back.
The vault got pounded with last minute POW orders - a guy I work with got an order in for a Glock 21 just under the wire, and he's still waiting.
The vault got pounded with last minute POW orders - a guy I work with got an order in for a Glock 21 just under the wire, and he's still waiting.
Bullman
Member
A very informative thread indeed. I have been a long time fan of the 10mm, and when the FBI adopted it and I got a 1006, I thought it was going to take off like hotcakes. But alas it died about as fast as it took off. Tis a shame, it is the .357 magnum of the pistol side of the coin, but no one seems to want to carry a magnum anymore.
sigp220.45
US Veteran
The Sig P220 in .45 was the issued pistol of the agents on the Attorney General's protection detail. I don't know if it is anymore.
Loomis Guard
Member
I'll bet the armored vest industry breathed a sigh of relief when the ten went off the radar!!!!! I'll also bet that a ten will come right through my front or side armored windows!!!! Now,,,, I hope the bad guys don't get their hands on that AK47 pistol I see advertised in some gun mags!!!! All of us will be in DEEP S--- over that one!!!!
Loomis Guard
Loomis Guard
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2008
- Messages
- 2
- Reaction score
- 2
The best thing that came out of the 10mm program were the testing protocols that are now being used. Unless you are the one who as to shoot all the rounds until the blood can not flow from your hands anymore.
The hope was that the lower velocity round was going to answer the mail for the handgun need and that a high velocity (like the original Norma load) would be developed for the MP5/10. This never happened. I had several 1076s and was very pleased. I never had a malfuncion of any kind except during the testing when we were attempting to figure out why they were malfuncioning. I a certain that there were various problems. The miles of high speed film that was shot proves it. However, it was mind numbing to track down each malady and remidy it.. S&W bent over backwards to try and figure it out too. I still think the three biggest problems were agents that did not want the "boat anchor" and invented problems, the fact that you had to put some effort into shooting it (not a gun for limp wrists), and three that very straight walls of the case - it just does not lend itself to feeding like a 9mm Para.
Lots of modifications and tricks were used to get them reliable. The final deathblow was the inability for agents in the field to clean out the firing pin hole. As such, grime and powder would build up and prevent the pin from making contact with the primer. Ironic now that agents can strip the pin from their 1911s.
It was an ok gun for a double action (unforgiving- those that could shoot- liked them- those that could not hated them), and an even better round. It all started for the BU with a personally owned Delta Elite 10mm that was thrown into the testing for fun. Ironic since the best pistols the BU has ever issued are the colt .38 Supers and Springfield .45s.
The hope was that the lower velocity round was going to answer the mail for the handgun need and that a high velocity (like the original Norma load) would be developed for the MP5/10. This never happened. I had several 1076s and was very pleased. I never had a malfuncion of any kind except during the testing when we were attempting to figure out why they were malfuncioning. I a certain that there were various problems. The miles of high speed film that was shot proves it. However, it was mind numbing to track down each malady and remidy it.. S&W bent over backwards to try and figure it out too. I still think the three biggest problems were agents that did not want the "boat anchor" and invented problems, the fact that you had to put some effort into shooting it (not a gun for limp wrists), and three that very straight walls of the case - it just does not lend itself to feeding like a 9mm Para.
Lots of modifications and tricks were used to get them reliable. The final deathblow was the inability for agents in the field to clean out the firing pin hole. As such, grime and powder would build up and prevent the pin from making contact with the primer. Ironic now that agents can strip the pin from their 1911s.
It was an ok gun for a double action (unforgiving- those that could shoot- liked them- those that could not hated them), and an even better round. It all started for the BU with a personally owned Delta Elite 10mm that was thrown into the testing for fun. Ironic since the best pistols the BU has ever issued are the colt .38 Supers and Springfield .45s.
dmc8163
Member
ARM hawaii,
Your profile contains no contact information. Please see my profile and email me off the forum.
Thanks, D
Your profile contains no contact information. Please see my profile and email me off the forum.
Thanks, D
I had occasion to visit the FBI building a number of years ago as part of a class trip to DC for my son and one of the things they did was an agent did a firing demonstration of the HK submachine gun and the SiG pistol. He was none too happy when I asked the question in front of the group as to why America's most venerable law enforcement agency was using guns manufactured by foreign entities...to his credit however he gave an honest answer..."We buy based on the lowest bid". And we lament the loss of domestic manufacturing, is it any wonder why?
As to this thread, fascinating reading. I love my 1076, and find it a joy to shoot. The insight provided by several posters as to the thinking inside the Bureau is a rare glimpse of how things work, and I thank you for sharing.
As a postscript, I remember reading about the 10mm MP's in one of Clancy's books, now there is a gun I would like to learn more about. Would it be possible to post the picture again, or provide some more details?
As to this thread, fascinating reading. I love my 1076, and find it a joy to shoot. The insight provided by several posters as to the thinking inside the Bureau is a rare glimpse of how things work, and I thank you for sharing.
As a postscript, I remember reading about the 10mm MP's in one of Clancy's books, now there is a gun I would like to learn more about. Would it be possible to post the picture again, or provide some more details?
TheGreatGonzo
US Veteran
The first time I ever saw a 1076 was the first day I met John Hall. I had the great pleasure and honor of getting to know him. And, if you knew John, you also knew there were two things that were ever present on his belt: a 1076 and the silver eagle buckle.
I truly loved my 1076 and only gave it back under great duress. The Gun Vault started resorting to trickery and outright threats to get them back. Tricky little buggers! As for the Springfield...I have not heard a lot of positive reports from the current folks. In fact, most of what I have heard has been negative. Most I know would gladly trade them for their old P220 or a 4506. I'm sure the opinions vary, though.
Gonzo
I truly loved my 1076 and only gave it back under great duress. The Gun Vault started resorting to trickery and outright threats to get them back. Tricky little buggers! As for the Springfield...I have not heard a lot of positive reports from the current folks. In fact, most of what I have heard has been negative. Most I know would gladly trade them for their old P220 or a 4506. I'm sure the opinions vary, though.
Gonzo
