JCR575
Member
New goodies for my FBI 1076s
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FBI 1076
- Thread starter dacoontz
- Start date
New goodies for my FBI 1076s
Nice accoutrements for the pair!
I'm curious about your holsters, about 15 years ago I was researching the holster for FBI's use of the 1076, was told that the Safariland 5181 like the one on the right in your pic was correct, I see your other has the thumb/hammer strap. It was my understanding at the time that the one on the right was correct, did they issue both versions??
I use mine with my M4586's on occasion, not as secure feeling as an IWB so it doesn't get used much, but it's a cool holster.. Mine is marked 5181 2096 and also is stamped 1076.
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OP
dacoontz
Member
JCR575,
Well, that just doubled the amount of 15 rounders posted in this thread. What a score.
Well, that just doubled the amount of 15 rounders posted in this thread. What a score.
JCR575
Member
Nice accoutrements for the pair!
I'm curious about your holsters, about 15 years ago I was researching the holster for FBI's use of the 1076, was told that the Safariland 5181 like the one on the right in your pic was correct, I see your other has the thumb/hammer strap. It was my understanding at the time that the one on the right was correct, did they issue both versions??
I use mine with my M4586's on occasion, not as secure feeling as an IWB so it doesn't get used much, but it's a cool holster.. Mine is marked 5181 2096 and also is stamped 1076.
Thanks
Interesting information about the holsters you mentioned.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/member...holsters-for-s-and-w-model-1076-and-more.html
I hope the link works. DMC8163 has a picture gallery of FBI holsters. I have 2 of the 5181 and 1 of the 518. I think they are cool holsters as well.
OK, I'll need to set the record straight..... Old age and memory isn't what it used to be, and I didn't dig far enough into my holster box
. When I posted about the 5181, something wasn't right about it (I had pulled it out of my holster box) as the area covering the end of the barrel just had more material (from the muzzle back) than I remembered. So, after looking at the pic in that gallery, I climbed back up in my storage and pulled the box out, dug deeper, and lo-and-behold found my 5183, also marked for the 1076, this one is the one I was talking about when I had researched it. I looked all over and found it at a Police supply house in Salt Lake City (they only had one), and bought it. I liked it a lot due to the "less material" and almost competition like coverage at the end of the slide (less is more).
I'll need to take a pic and post of the two, the 5183 is the one I now remember as being the correct one, but who knows, there were probably many in use due to supplier production/stocking issues (?)
The material is less in all areas, less at the muzzle, no hammer/thumb break, and the two sides up at the top are lower than the 5181, very competition like, i.e., IPSC Race gun style.
FWIW
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And......
Need to say that I should have not got rid of my two 15 round magazines years back. They are just too hard to find, and the prices have skyrocked recently...
At least I know where one still is, and he's a good friend, should I ask hard enough I could prolly get it back...
Need to say that I should have not got rid of my two 15 round magazines years back. They are just too hard to find, and the prices have skyrocked recently...
At least I know where one still is, and he's a good friend, should I ask hard enough I could prolly get it back...
tg4360
US Veteran
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- Mar 25, 2011
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Fact.
As a Trooper (Virginia), my first issued auto was the long slide 1076. Agents at the time got the short gun which is the same as the FBI gun. We turned them in several years later when we switched to Sigs so those must be floating around out there somewhere.
We could buy ours when they got turned in and yes... I was an idiot and didn't get mine.
We got called in shortly after issue to have them gone over by Smith armorers. While we stood there, they removed and replaced several parts of the fire control and dimpled under the decocker to show that the mod had been done. Gentle requests for info as to "why" were equally gently rebuffed.
I never heard of any of our guns locking up but we did have a little transition learning curve of short recoil FTF and stovepipes. I understand that the FBI was shooting a cartridge that was not full house 10mm and if the FBI did it we did too. Between that and we had the long barreled guns (and I suspect a lot of the troops who'd been shooting our six guns with +P 158gr SWHP were breaking their wrists in recoil) was what our problems were.
Our first Sigs were 9mm and now we have .357 sig.... almost seems like we should have stuck with the 10 and just fired full power loads.
TG
James&theGiant1911
Member
The .357 Sig is a massively better firearm, I own a 1076 and really do not understand the fascination with that firearm. I own a Shorty 40 which is massively better than the 10mm round 1076. Not only that any tactical and Lew Horton edition 3rd gen is also massively better. I do not see myself selling my particular 1076 since it has a Novak trigger job and shoots really well.
Maybe it is FBI status or maybe the gun has a cult following. Either way there are lots of better carry firearms out there and I carry Sigs as I really do not want to lose my prime 3rd gens and while the 1076 is one of them. They are not the best 3rd gen ever made.
Maybe it is FBI status or maybe the gun has a cult following. Either way there are lots of better carry firearms out there and I carry Sigs as I really do not want to lose my prime 3rd gens and while the 1076 is one of them. They are not the best 3rd gen ever made.
BUFF
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
You have to keep time in perspective. When the FBI 10mm Auto deal was going on, there was no .40 S&W cartridge. There was no .357 Sig cartridge. For law enforcement, there was 9mm and .45 ACP.
I doubt anybody in this thread sees the 1076 and the 10mm Auto as the be-all and end-all for a carry gun these days, law enforcement or citizen. Sure, it would work, but it's not the solution to anybody's current needs except for us S&W fans, most likely, as a historical footnote and an interesting piece of the recent past.
I doubt anybody in this thread sees the 1076 and the 10mm Auto as the be-all and end-all for a carry gun these days, law enforcement or citizen. Sure, it would work, but it's not the solution to anybody's current needs except for us S&W fans, most likely, as a historical footnote and an interesting piece of the recent past.
CBus660R
Member
For me, the 10xx series represents the 1st credible 10mm that you can shoot (the Bren Ten is strictly a collector piece/safe queen). Also, since it is built strong, you can play around with full power loads unlike what you can do with some of the other options. When I picked my 1076 up, my options were a 1911, EAA Witness, or Glock. 2 of the 3 have/had a bit of a reputation for not liking hot loads like Underwood, Buffalo Bore, and handloads. The 3rd is either a love it or hate it proposition. I've just never gelled with Glocks and since I got my 1076 for less than what a G20 was going for, it made the decision very easy. I don't think too many are arguing that a 1076 is the be all end all in the pistol world, especially for EDC. Its sorta like having a nice '57 Chevy in the garage. You wouldn't daily drive it and it isn't as good as a '16 Chevy Impala in any practical sort of way, but it's cool and nice to own and enjoy.
When I spotted this Kentucky State Police 1076 in my LGS, I picked it up and never handed it back. I had to have it. I actually like it a lot. I'll have to look for the slide block as mentioned further up, but I'm most certain it is not stamped with the "capable of firing without magazine" label. The front of the trigger guard is checkered and it has Trijicon night sights. It came with straight backed grips on it, I put the Hogues on it from a 1006 I used to own. I prefer the 1076 over the 1006 myself.
Trijicon said they will re-lamp them for $54, if I send them my slide. I will do it someday ......... they still glow a bit.
Trijicon said they will re-lamp them for $54, if I send them my slide. I will do it someday ......... they still glow a bit.
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JCR575
Member
I recently purchased a 1076 that I really did not know much about besides it has been polished and did include the original grip. I am quite the distance from my FFL so I have asked for pictures of the handgun and grip.
So handgun looks great and bonus was a palm swell grip. I had noticed in the grip picture at the bottom was what looks to be a S&W box so I text friend at the gun shop to see if my 1076 came in the factory box. He said yes box, no serial label. I finally get to my FFL yesterday to fill out paperwork and yes very nice 1076 and was very surprised to see that it has all the FBI features including the U stamp under trigger guard, night sights, no mag safety, and palm swell grip. The serial number is in the FBI range. I pick up the box to find the end label torn off the box, I turn it to look at the other end and there is the serial label I have seen before that had not been noticed by my friend.
I am very happy. I will update with S&W letter request results. Have a great holiday season.
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
So handgun looks great and bonus was a palm swell grip. I had noticed in the grip picture at the bottom was what looks to be a S&W box so I text friend at the gun shop to see if my 1076 came in the factory box. He said yes box, no serial label. I finally get to my FFL yesterday to fill out paperwork and yes very nice 1076 and was very surprised to see that it has all the FBI features including the U stamp under trigger guard, night sights, no mag safety, and palm swell grip. The serial number is in the FBI range. I pick up the box to find the end label torn off the box, I turn it to look at the other end and there is the serial label I have seen before that had not been noticed by my friend.
I am very happy. I will update with S&W letter request results. Have a great holiday season.
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
The_Truth
Member
I'm so very excited! I just picked up TFE1599 for a trade +cash deal.
I did some research on this pistol TFE1599 and my goal was to figure out which police agency bought this gun originally. It's confirmed by S&W that this gun is NOT an FBI gun unfortunately, but they did tell me that it was shipped to Virginia on 6/20/1990. They wouldn't tell me which agency though. In fact, the guy wouldn't really give me much info at all except the ship date and I had to ask a few questions to get the info that I did get.
Is there any way to get provenance for this gun now that Mr. Jinks is not doing letters anymore? I've been searching for a VSP gun for over 2 years, so if this gun turns out to be one of those pistols I would be absolutely ELATED!
I did some research on this pistol TFE1599 and my goal was to figure out which police agency bought this gun originally. It's confirmed by S&W that this gun is NOT an FBI gun unfortunately, but they did tell me that it was shipped to Virginia on 6/20/1990. They wouldn't tell me which agency though. In fact, the guy wouldn't really give me much info at all except the ship date and I had to ask a few questions to get the info that I did get.
Is there any way to get provenance for this gun now that Mr. Jinks is not doing letters anymore? I've been searching for a VSP gun for over 2 years, so if this gun turns out to be one of those pistols I would be absolutely ELATED!
The_Truth
Member
JCR, I could be wrong, but I am almost positive that gun with the polished slide is a Virginia State Police gun. I believe there is a matching 1026 out there somewhere too from the same original owner.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
The_Truth
Member
Sorry for the triple post, I'm very excited. TFE1599 has been confirmed to be a Chesterfield VA Police gun. Now I just need the letter saying so 
JCR575
Member
The Truth
Mr.Jinks is still researching the Letters of Authenticity. I have received my letter request back from him in under 3 weeks. I had a good idea that the polished 1076 was in fact an FBI gun because I can see through the used gun label to the original label which states FBI in the features area. I do have my letter to confirm and I am a happy camper too.
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
Mr.Jinks is still researching the Letters of Authenticity. I have received my letter request back from him in under 3 weeks. I had a good idea that the polished 1076 was in fact an FBI gun because I can see through the used gun label to the original label which states FBI in the features area. I do have my letter to confirm and I am a happy camper too.
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The_Truth
Member
Thanks JCR, and congratulations! PM inbound
James&theGiant1911
Member
Boy not to rain on your rainbow parades BUT every 1076 produced probably from some time or another ended up in an Armory whether the FBI returned them to Smith and Wesson and they then sent/ sold them to other LEO distributors or dealers. My gun was an armory gun along with a lot of yours. Just because they sent them to the FBI does not mean it was issued and/ or ever put into service. A 1076 is a great firearm, I love mine a lot but they are not a Performance Center gun nor as good as whatever you all are smoking to have a drool fest over.
James&theGiant1911
Member
I don't really care, and if some of you all are the ones throwing them on auctions sites, which I suspect you are then more power to you. Third gens are bringing crazy prices but this gun is not a Wilson or a Nighthawk. I have a 1076 cause I loved the gun and wanted it not because I wanted to sell it and make 2-3 times my money back. This drives prices up within these firearms which are already pegged out.
I am not whining glad I bought them when I did but this artificial pushing of prices of third gens makes me hold on to the ones I have, and all my new gun purchases have been premium customs and Sigs. It is sad that this is what the 3rd generation pistols have turned into.
The_Truth
Member
I don't know what you guys are talking about. It's as simple as looking for a toy in the bottom of a Cracker Jack box, except now it's transferred into looking for our favorite weapon, only a little more special version of it. I love these guns because the history is pure awesomeness. The 10mm round itself is pure awesomeness, and the way it went from invention, to the freakin' FBI!!!!, then back down to nothing is something that can't be said about many pistol calibers as effective as 10mm.
You can argue until you're blue in the face, it won't change the fact that this market exists, and it won't change the fact that people will always love these guns. They are truly special. They aren't meant to be target custom guns. They are special because of their time and place in the world, and because they were so short lived despite being arguably some of the best pistols ever made. The story of the FBI adoption of 10mm is cool as hell, and if you don't think so I'll bet you're the same type of person that when you were a kid you went around telling all your friends that Santa wasn't real. Those of us who knew better didn't care, and you didn't ruin anything for us - we just sat back and wondered how your life could be so miserable that you needed to poke holes in something you didn't even understand to begin with.
Tell me a TEU- prefix 1076 isn't special and I'll tell you you're wrong.
Heck, I've been shopping for over 2 years for a 1076 but I wanted a particular one - a Virginia State Police issued 1076 - and I have found a grand total of THREE of them in that 2 year period, and 1 of them had a polished slide. Once I find the right VSP gun it will bring me great happiness to finally own it because it's special. You can't get on gunbroker and find one much less go to a storefront and find one. That's what's cool about it. I just bought my first 1076 TODAY, and it wasn't a VSP gun. It was damn close though. I really thought I had found one. I didn't find the VSP gun but Chesterfield VA is 10 minutes from me, so that's good enough to be my first.
You can argue until you're blue in the face, it won't change the fact that this market exists, and it won't change the fact that people will always love these guns. They are truly special. They aren't meant to be target custom guns. They are special because of their time and place in the world, and because they were so short lived despite being arguably some of the best pistols ever made. The story of the FBI adoption of 10mm is cool as hell, and if you don't think so I'll bet you're the same type of person that when you were a kid you went around telling all your friends that Santa wasn't real. Those of us who knew better didn't care, and you didn't ruin anything for us - we just sat back and wondered how your life could be so miserable that you needed to poke holes in something you didn't even understand to begin with.
Tell me a TEU- prefix 1076 isn't special and I'll tell you you're wrong.
Heck, I've been shopping for over 2 years for a 1076 but I wanted a particular one - a Virginia State Police issued 1076 - and I have found a grand total of THREE of them in that 2 year period, and 1 of them had a polished slide. Once I find the right VSP gun it will bring me great happiness to finally own it because it's special. You can't get on gunbroker and find one much less go to a storefront and find one. That's what's cool about it. I just bought my first 1076 TODAY, and it wasn't a VSP gun. It was damn close though. I really thought I had found one. I didn't find the VSP gun but Chesterfield VA is 10 minutes from me, so that's good enough to be my first.
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James&theGiant1911
Member
That is ok, I am sure a lot of you noobers will be too venturing out into the world of Nighthawk and Wilson combat soon. Send off your 1076s off to custom pistol smiths to make them even better. I am not hating I guess I can see the fascination by people who are new to 3rd gens or the 10mm but until you get into Smith's real Performance Center guns and shoot one of their high end wheel guns then you have not really experienced Smith and Wesson's better products.
The 10mm is a good round, 10xx series a great gun but are they 1500-2500 dollar firearms? No way but for new people reading these forums and if you are not able to get an actual 1076 then I would go to the lower 1006. The hype of this gun is not what the gun actually is, just saying.
The 10mm is a good round, 10xx series a great gun but are they 1500-2500 dollar firearms? No way but for new people reading these forums and if you are not able to get an actual 1076 then I would go to the lower 1006. The hype of this gun is not what the gun actually is, just saying.
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dotdsd334
Member
Well sir....you are partially correct. There are a handful of FBI 1076 contract guns that were assembled by Paul Liebenberg and the Performance Center.....
That said....I am a PC guy and I understand your point of view. The majority of the fascination with the 1076 FBI guns is that they were a limited quantity contract gun that was not suppose to get to the civilian market. One of my non PC 1076 FBIs has a fascinating story and documentation from the FBI agent that owned it prior to me. To me as a collector that's worth something.
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James&theGiant1911
Member
I am not quoting you but while it looks like a Performance Center case, that is NOT a Performance Center label. All PC guns I have say Performance Center on them and/ or have PC in the actual serial number. I am not trying to call you a liar but post up an actual letter from the PC pistol smith that said this was a Performance Center model?
The FBI could have sent several back to try and fix their issues with them. From what was reported from the time period the FBI order 10 thousand of them and Smith only filled 2400 of that order the remainder were dumped into armory sales. The 1076 was never intended for the civilian market. I do not care other than this gun is not the holy grail you treat it as. I value my Lew Horton Shorty 40 to a higher level and at 500 pieces it is a lot rarer and an ACTUAL Performance Center pistol.
I am sure some people out there could buy all this limited lettered bull but I don't it adds nothing to the gun, and could care less about that. I have not really even checked to see if my 1076 is an actual FBI gun. I could care less and it ADDS ZERO dollars to any value I would ever place on this gun.
carry on, do your thing and keep pretending you all have a gold nugget in that 13,000 pistol run of these here 1076s.
I take some of that back if you actually have a famous FBI agent pistol that can be verified belonging to that actual agent then maybe it would be worth something more than a standard 1076 if you have the documentation to support it. That would have to be the directors firearm or a gun belonging to a Melvin Purvis type agent. Maybe even Scully and Moulders 1076 might fetch a huge price? You get the idea famous agents that owned the gun that can be proven.
The FBI could have sent several back to try and fix their issues with them. From what was reported from the time period the FBI order 10 thousand of them and Smith only filled 2400 of that order the remainder were dumped into armory sales. The 1076 was never intended for the civilian market. I do not care other than this gun is not the holy grail you treat it as. I value my Lew Horton Shorty 40 to a higher level and at 500 pieces it is a lot rarer and an ACTUAL Performance Center pistol.
I am sure some people out there could buy all this limited lettered bull but I don't it adds nothing to the gun, and could care less about that. I have not really even checked to see if my 1076 is an actual FBI gun. I could care less and it ADDS ZERO dollars to any value I would ever place on this gun.
carry on, do your thing and keep pretending you all have a gold nugget in that 13,000 pistol run of these here 1076s.
I take some of that back if you actually have a famous FBI agent pistol that can be verified belonging to that actual agent then maybe it would be worth something more than a standard 1076 if you have the documentation to support it. That would have to be the directors firearm or a gun belonging to a Melvin Purvis type agent. Maybe even Scully and Moulders 1076 might fetch a huge price? You get the idea famous agents that owned the gun that can be proven.
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dotdsd334
Member
You are right...I'm full of it.....
Thanks for your posts about how pedestrian the FBI 1076s are and how much better the PC autos are. It added a lot to this thread....
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The_Truth
Member
FBI designation adds zero value, eh? You sellin'? Because that's some straight up ignorant stuff there, man. Haha.
I think you're missing the point once again, clouded by your own personal bias.
I'm not a Smith and Wesson guy, I'm a 10mm guy. I'm not buying the 1076 because it's the be all end all with the best trigger on planet Earth and performance center parts. As I said, if you could read, the history of this gun and the CONTEXT of these guns in the world at the time are not like many other guns. They just aren't. Whether you agree or not, that makes them special to some people.
So you can take your performance center guns and high end customs, but they'll never compare to the 1076 as far as the history of the 10mm cartridge goes, and that's what it's about for me. To compare the 1076 to these higher end guns is just silly and it's a moot point because no one is saying these 1076s are necessarily a "better gun." You're comparing apples to oranges. I'll say it again - it's the provenance of these guns which is appealing.
Also you mentioned inflating the price of these guns on gunbroker. How is putting up a NO RESERVE auction with no buy it now price and starting it at $.01 inflating the price? The market is literally deciding the price of these guns and the market says they are going up in value right now. Maybe you're just upset that you didn't buy a few when they were still $500 a pop?
James&theGiant1911
Member
Yeah, maybe every one here should have bought every third gen that they could have gotten their hands on in the 1990s. They would have a booming business these days, literally.
My 1076 has actually been worked over by Novaks who do great 3rd gen work and it has the best trigger out of any 1076 I have ever seen since you all I am sure know that the 1076s normal trigger is not very smooth at all. I like my 1076 but imo it is a 750-1200 dollar gun. I guess the ones on GB right now selling for 1500 -2000 grand with FBI letters are just outside the normal range? I don't think so, I think it is sites such as this and reflect in GB pricing that has pushed the market up. So now you have pawn owners across the nation looking for beat up or whatever 1076 that they can find to stick on the auction site to get big bucks for them. I guess they probably will settle down again but the days of 500-600 dollar third gens is long gone. Making some of the new Performance Center pieces good deals at 850-1200 so I guess it is what it is.
I love my 1076 but it sucks to see it artificially inflated by all this FBI hype like that should add value to it. Again the FBI ordered 10 thousand of them, the VA state police ordered 2 thousand of them and they made 13 grand. When the FBI cancelled their contract, Smith and Wesson sent the rest of them to armories not very far from their own factory most of them stayed on the east coast at LEO armory shops.
If you all are doing it to discuss collectable 1076s that is cool, but when you see this site and some new members piling on then go to the auction sites and see the same pieces with letters? It is a little like are they doing this to discuss the firearm and its history or are they doing this to increase price?
Does not in the end matter to me, I am keeping my Novak 1076 anyway.
Carry on 1076s
The_Truth
Member
I definitely don't disagree that there is a bit of hype behind the FBI guns, but the hype is at least somewhat warranted in my opinion. Not all of those 10K guns still exist, and of the ones left I wonder how many are in NIB condition or better with a letter from S&W? I'd venture to guess not many. Many were destroyed. It'd be a shot in the dark to even guess, but MAYBE a couple thousand? Of THOSE guns, how many TEU- prefixes or other "1st batch" guns are there on the market? The number is probably very small. THOSE guns are worth the big number, but the run of the mill FBI guns I agree aren't worth the big number, but the market seems to disagree.
As for the VSP gun, feel free to post a link to one for sale. They aren't there. I think I was lucky enough to score a Chesterfield PD gun, and the seller didn't even know what it was. Who knows how few of those still exist. I won't say exactly how much I paid, but I traded a 2013 P229 .40 plus some cash for it. I may keep it, or I may use it as trade bait for the elusive VSP gun. Either way, I'm having it lettered. I live in Virginia, so the Virginia agency guns are cool to me. I'm willing to bet most of these collectors are probably LEO or former LEO themselves.
I think people are trying to educate about these guns, and I think it's great. I've learned most of what I know about these guns on here. Some people may not know what they have until they learn about it.
James&theGiant1911
Member
I passed on a Virginia State Police 1076 when I bought mine 7 or so years ago. They were out there then, I think a lot of it depends on a lot of factors out side your control. When they get a shipment of them, and if you can find someone in the right place and the right time. Like my 1076 pictured or the Ticino Swiss Police p228 pictured with it. I was lucky to acquire it on the tail end of those LEO trade in pieces which were shipped here from LEO agencies in Switzerland. They all got snatched up quickly and there are no more out there. I think you will find one, it will just take time but from recent history you probably will have to bring some serious cash to the table to get it.
I have never seen 3rd gens peak this high ever, and I thought 2 years ago was bad. LOL
A testament to those guns from that ERA that Smith and Wesson built.
I have never seen 3rd gens peak this high ever, and I thought 2 years ago was bad. LOL
A testament to those guns from that ERA that Smith and Wesson built.
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The_Truth
Member
I'll give ya $500 for it
