FBI 1076

That is ok, I am sure a lot of you noobers will be too venturing out into the world of Nighthawk and Wilson combat soon. Send off your 1076s off to custom pistol smiths to make them even better. I am not hating I guess I can see the fascination by people who are new to 3rd gens or the 10mm but until you get into Smith's real Performance Center guns and shoot one of their high end wheel guns then you have not really experienced Smith and Wesson's better products.

The 10mm is a good round, 10xx series a great gun but are they 1500-2500 dollar firearms? No way but for new people reading these forums and if you are not able to get an actual 1076 then I would go to the lower 1006. The hype of this gun is not what the gun actually is, just saying.
 
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James&theGiant1911 said:
Boy not to rain on your rainbow parades BUT every 1076 produced probably from some time or another ended up in an Armory whether the FBI returned them to Smith and Wesson and they then sent/ sold them to other LEO distributors or dealers. My gun was an armory gun along with a lot of yours. Just because they sent them to the FBI does not mean it was issued and/ or ever put into service. A 1076 is a great firearm, I love mine a lot but they are not a Performance Center gun nor as good as whatever you all are smoking to have a drool fest over.
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Well sir....you are partially correct. There are a handful of FBI 1076 contract guns that were assembled by Paul Liebenberg and the Performance Center.....

ca9d993fcd682b6dcb26dea5ea626dac.jpg


That said....I am a PC guy and I understand your point of view. The majority of the fascination with the 1076 FBI guns is that they were a limited quantity contract gun that was not suppose to get to the civilian market. One of my non PC 1076 FBIs has a fascinating story and documentation from the FBI agent that owned it prior to me. To me as a collector that's worth something.




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I am not quoting you but while it looks like a Performance Center case, that is NOT a Performance Center label. All PC guns I have say Performance Center on them and/ or have PC in the actual serial number. I am not trying to call you a liar but post up an actual letter from the PC pistol smith that said this was a Performance Center model?

The FBI could have sent several back to try and fix their issues with them. From what was reported from the time period the FBI order 10 thousand of them and Smith only filled 2400 of that order the remainder were dumped into armory sales. The 1076 was never intended for the civilian market. I do not care other than this gun is not the holy grail you treat it as. I value my Lew Horton Shorty 40 to a higher level and at 500 pieces it is a lot rarer and an ACTUAL Performance Center pistol.

I am sure some people out there could buy all this limited lettered bull but I don't it adds nothing to the gun, and could care less about that. I have not really even checked to see if my 1076 is an actual FBI gun. I could care less and it ADDS ZERO dollars to any value I would ever place on this gun.

carry on, do your thing and keep pretending you all have a gold nugget in that 13,000 pistol run of these here 1076s.

I take some of that back if you actually have a famous FBI agent pistol that can be verified belonging to that actual agent then maybe it would be worth something more than a standard 1076 if you have the documentation to support it. That would have to be the directors firearm or a gun belonging to a Melvin Purvis type agent. Maybe even Scully and Moulders 1076 might fetch a huge price? You get the idea famous agents that owned the gun that can be proven.
 
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James&theGiant1911 said:
I am not quoting you but while it looks like a Performance Center case, that is NOT a Performance Center label. All PC guns I have say Performance Center on them and/ or have PC in the actual serial number. I am not trying to call you a liar but post up an actual letter from the PC pistol smith that said this was a Performance Center model?

The FBI could have sent several back to try and fix their issues with them. From what was reported from the time period the FBI order 10 thousand of them and Smith only filled 2400 of that order the remainder were dumped into armory sales. The 1076 was never intended for the civilian market. I do not care other than this gun is not the holy grail you treat it as. I value my Lew Horton Shorty 40 to a higher level and at 500 pieces it is a lot rarer and an ACTUAL Performance Center pistol.

I am sure some people out there could buy all this limited lettered bull but I don't it adds nothing to the gun, and could care less about that. I have not really even checked to see if my 1076 is an actual FBI gun. I could care less and it ADDS ZERO dollars to any value I would ever place on this gun.

carry on, do your thing and keep pretending you all have a gold nugget in that 13,000 pistol run of these here 1076s.
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You are right...I'm full of it.....

Thanks for your posts about how pedestrian the FBI 1076s are and how much better the PC autos are. It added a lot to this thread....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
James&theGiant1911 said:
I am not quoting you but while it looks like a Performance Center case, that is NOT a Performance Center label. All PC guns I have say Performance Center on them and/ or have PC in the actual serial number. I am not trying to call you a liar but post up an actual letter from the PC pistol smith that said this was a Performance Center model?

The FBI could have sent several back to try and fix their issues with them. From what was reported from the time period the FBI order 10 thousand of them and Smith only filled 2400 of that order the remainder were dumped into armory sales. The 1076 was never intended for the civilian market. I do not care other than this gun is not the holy grail you treat it as. I value my Lew Horton Shorty 40 to a higher level and at 500 pieces it is a lot rarer and an ACTUAL Performance Center pistol.

I am sure some people out there could buy all this limited lettered bull but I don't it adds nothing to the gun, and could care less about that. I have not really even checked to see if my 1076 is an actual FBI gun. I could care less and it ADDS ZERO dollars to any value I would ever place on this gun.

carry on, do your thing and keep pretending you all have a gold nugget in that 13,000 pistol run of these here 1076s.
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FBI designation adds zero value, eh? You sellin'? Because that's some straight up ignorant stuff there, man. Haha.

I think you're missing the point once again, clouded by your own personal bias.

I'm not a Smith and Wesson guy, I'm a 10mm guy. I'm not buying the 1076 because it's the be all end all with the best trigger on planet Earth and performance center parts. As I said, if you could read, the history of this gun and the CONTEXT of these guns in the world at the time are not like many other guns. They just aren't. Whether you agree or not, that makes them special to some people.

So you can take your performance center guns and high end customs, but they'll never compare to the 1076 as far as the history of the 10mm cartridge goes, and that's what it's about for me. To compare the 1076 to these higher end guns is just silly and it's a moot point because no one is saying these 1076s are necessarily a "better gun." You're comparing apples to oranges. I'll say it again - it's the provenance of these guns which is appealing.

Also you mentioned inflating the price of these guns on gunbroker. How is putting up a NO RESERVE auction with no buy it now price and starting it at $.01 inflating the price? The market is literally deciding the price of these guns and the market says they are going up in value right now. Maybe you're just upset that you didn't buy a few when they were still $500 a pop?
 
The_Truth said:
FBI designation adds zero value, eh? You sellin'? Because that's some straight up ignorant stuff there, man. Haha.

I think you're missing the point once again, clouded by your own personal bias.

I'm not a Smith and Wesson guy, I'm a 10mm guy. I'm not buying the 1076 because it's the be all end all with the best trigger on planet Earth and performance center parts. As I said, if you could read, the history of this gun and the CONTEXT of these guns in the world at the time are not like many other guns. They just aren't. Whether you agree or not, that makes them special to some people.

So you can take your performance center guns and high end customs, but they'll never compare to the 1076 as far as the history of the 10mm cartridge goes, and that's what it's about for me. To compare the 1076 to these higher end guns is just silly and it's a moot point because no one is saying these 1076s are necessarily a "better gun." You're comparing apples to oranges. I'll say it again - it's the provenance of these guns which is appealing.

Also you mentioned inflating the price of these guns on gunbroker. How is putting up a NO RESERVE auction with no buy it now price and starting it at $.01 inflating the price? The market is literally deciding the price of these guns and the market says they are going up in value right now. Maybe you're just upset that you didn't buy a few when they were still $500 a pop?
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Yeah, maybe every one here should have bought every third gen that they could have gotten their hands on in the 1990s. They would have a booming business these days, literally.

My 1076 has actually been worked over by Novaks who do great 3rd gen work and it has the best trigger out of any 1076 I have ever seen since you all I am sure know that the 1076s normal trigger is not very smooth at all. I like my 1076 but imo it is a 750-1200 dollar gun. I guess the ones on GB right now selling for 1500 -2000 grand with FBI letters are just outside the normal range? I don't think so, I think it is sites such as this and reflect in GB pricing that has pushed the market up. So now you have pawn owners across the nation looking for beat up or whatever 1076 that they can find to stick on the auction site to get big bucks for them. I guess they probably will settle down again but the days of 500-600 dollar third gens is long gone. Making some of the new Performance Center pieces good deals at 850-1200 so I guess it is what it is.

I love my 1076 but it sucks to see it artificially inflated by all this FBI hype like that should add value to it. Again the FBI ordered 10 thousand of them, the VA state police ordered 2 thousand of them and they made 13 grand. When the FBI cancelled their contract, Smith and Wesson sent the rest of them to armories not very far from their own factory most of them stayed on the east coast at LEO armory shops.

If you all are doing it to discuss collectable 1076s that is cool, but when you see this site and some new members piling on then go to the auction sites and see the same pieces with letters? It is a little like are they doing this to discuss the firearm and its history or are they doing this to increase price?

Does not in the end matter to me, I am keeping my Novak 1076 anyway.

Carry on 1076s
 
James&theGiant1911 said:
Yeah, maybe every one here should have bought every third gen that they could have gotten their hands on in the 1990s. They would have a booming business these days, literally.

My 1076 has actually been worked over by Novaks who do great 3rd gen work and it has the best trigger out of any 1076 I have ever seen since you all I am sure know that the 1076s normal trigger is not very smooth at all. I like my 1076 but imo it is a 750-1200 dollar gun. I guess the ones on GB right now selling for 1500 -2000 grand with FBI letters are just outside the normal range? I don't think so, I think it is sites such as this and reflect in GB pricing that has pushed the market up. So now you have pawn owners across the nation looking for beat up or whatever 1076 that they can find to stick on the auction site to get big bucks for them. I guess they probably will settle down again but the days of 500-600 dollar third gens is long gone. Making some of the new Performance Center pieces good deals at 850-1200 so I guess it is what it is.

I love my 1076 but it sucks to see it artificially inflated by all this FBI hype like that should add value to it. Again the FBI ordered 10 thousand of them, the VA state police ordered 2 thousand of them and they made 13 grand. When the FBI cancelled their contract, Smith and Wesson sent the rest of them to armories not very far from their own factory most of them stayed on the east coast at LEO armory shops.

If you all are doing it to discuss collectable 1076s that is cool, but when you see this site and some new members piling on then go to the auction sites and see the same pieces with letters? It is a little like are they doing this to discuss the firearm and its history or are they doing this to increase price?

Does not in the end matter to me, I am keeping my Novak 1076 anyway.

Carry on 1076s
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I definitely don't disagree that there is a bit of hype behind the FBI guns, but the hype is at least somewhat warranted in my opinion. Not all of those 10K guns still exist, and of the ones left I wonder how many are in NIB condition or better with a letter from S&W? I'd venture to guess not many. Many were destroyed. It'd be a shot in the dark to even guess, but MAYBE a couple thousand? Of THOSE guns, how many TEU- prefixes or other "1st batch" guns are there on the market? The number is probably very small. THOSE guns are worth the big number, but the run of the mill FBI guns I agree aren't worth the big number, but the market seems to disagree.

As for the VSP gun, feel free to post a link to one for sale. They aren't there. I think I was lucky enough to score a Chesterfield PD gun, and the seller didn't even know what it was. Who knows how few of those still exist. I won't say exactly how much I paid, but I traded a 2013 P229 .40 plus some cash for it. I may keep it, or I may use it as trade bait for the elusive VSP gun. Either way, I'm having it lettered. I live in Virginia, so the Virginia agency guns are cool to me. I'm willing to bet most of these collectors are probably LEO or former LEO themselves.

I think people are trying to educate about these guns, and I think it's great. I've learned most of what I know about these guns on here. Some people may not know what they have until they learn about it.
 
I passed on a Virginia State Police 1076 when I bought mine 7 or so years ago. They were out there then, I think a lot of it depends on a lot of factors out side your control. When they get a shipment of them, and if you can find someone in the right place and the right time. Like my 1076 pictured or the Ticino Swiss Police p228 pictured with it. I was lucky to acquire it on the tail end of those LEO trade in pieces which were shipped here from LEO agencies in Switzerland. They all got snatched up quickly and there are no more out there. I think you will find one, it will just take time but from recent history you probably will have to bring some serious cash to the table to get it.

I have never seen 3rd gens peak this high ever, and I thought 2 years ago was bad. LOL

A testament to those guns from that ERA that Smith and Wesson built.
 

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I think I said it already but I traded a 9.5/10 condition 2013 Sig P229 SP .40 with 4 mags and a spare Hogue grip plus some cash. I think I put about 1200 rounds through that gun. All said and done I'd venture to guess the cash equivalent of what I gave up is a little over a grand for a Chesterfield VA Police issued 1076 in probably 9/10 condition. Has the 2 peen marks under the decocker, has the upside down T on the trigger guard, has palm swell grips, has the CAUTION on the slide which is slightly faded, 2 mags, no letter.
 
The_Truth said:
I think I said it already but I traded a 9.5/10 condition 2013 Sig P229 SP .40 with 4 mags and a spare Hogue grip plus some cash. I think I put about 1200 rounds through that gun. All said and done I'd venture to guess the cash equivalent of what I gave up is a little over a grand for a Chesterfield VA Police issued 1076 in probably 9/10 condition. Has the 2 peen marks under the decocker, has the upside down T on the trigger guard, has palm swell grips, has the CAUTION on the slide which is slightly faded, 2 mags, no letter.
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It is not a big deal, you got what you wanted. The VSP model I looked at was a little worn but went for around 750. This was 5-6 years ago, things go up. I realize that, if the third gens were a stock, then I wish I would have bought 3-4 of them when the getting was good. It kind of makes new people just getting into these 3rd gens, a tough spot to find really good pieces. Once the shops and brokers see what these are selling for people hold on to them and less hit the market. Thus the price increase. You have a fine 1076, I like mine as well. They are a good gun no doubt.
 
Unless the price was insanely low I would likely pass on one if it wasn't at least about 85% condition. I wouldn't have picked up this CPD gun if it was in any worse condition, but it won't be going in the safe, it'll be going straight into my EDC rotation.
 
1076NS

First Post...
I have a 1076NS that I bought back in 1991 when I had my FFL.
Does anyone know who the manufacturer of the night sights might have been ? And yes they are very dim, almost gone being 25+ years old. I would like to get them re-lamped if possible. The serial # is a THCxxxx number if that helps. Any information or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
 
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segdoh49 said:
First Post...
I have a 1076NS that I bought back in 1991 when I had my FFL.
Does anyone know who the manufacturer of the night sights might have been ? And yes they are very dim, almost gone being 25+ years old. I would like to get them re-lamped if possible. The serial # is a THCxxxx number if that helps. Any information or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
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When I bought my used 1076 I sent it to S&W for a complete check-up, and had them replace the night sights. Smith should still have them if you want to go that route.
 
segdoh49 said:
Do you remember what they charged you for the night sight replacement ?
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It's been several years, but $125 sounds about right. Your best bet is to just call S&W. Great folks and they treated me well. I mentioned that I needed another magazine and they dropped a good used one for free.
 
segdoh49 said:
First Post...
I have a 1076NS that I bought back in 1991 when I had my FFL.
Does anyone know who the manufacturer of the night sights might have been ? And yes they are very dim, almost gone being 25+ years old. I would like to get them re-lamped if possible. The serial # is a THCxxxx number if that helps. Any information or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...

When I was issued mine, the sights appeared to be Novaks but were not marked.

I liked them. Big white dots. Easy to pick up and they were very bright in the dark.

TG
 
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