Federal Judge says 2nd does not apply to illegals.

[walnutred]

Judge rejects 2nd Amendment argument from illegal immigrant living in Ohio | Fox News

If I read this correctly the Judge is saying that illegals are not protected by the Bill of Rights because they have not sworn loyalty to the US. I agree with this in theory but in the past it seemed that illegals had more rights than citizens. So frankly I'm having a hard time processing the potential ramifications of this decision if it is applied to other cases.

 

[hkcavalier]

It's an interesting can of worms. All have the natural right to self defense via the possession of arms...but illegals don't have a legal way to obtain modern firearms.

 

[murphydog]

There have been cases filed in favor of those in the legal citizenship pipeline (“green card” holders) to be eligible for 2nd Amendment protection, but I can see how someone not in the system and no verification possible to be denied.

 

[s&wchad]

Appropriate decision... Constitutional protections only apply to US citizens or those lawfully here.

He was in our Country illegally and lied on form 4473 multiple times claiming to be a US citizen. He doesn't have the right to possess firearms, vote or even be here. I hope they confiscate and sell his property and deport him. Legal Ohio taxpayers shouldn't be on the hook for his incarceration.

 

[sigp220.45]

He lied on the 4473. Nice try, off to the pokey.

 

[Telecaster]

“Convicted of a felony in any court” is DQ. If being here illegally is a felony, and he was convicted of it, QED.

 

[robvious]

It clearly states "We The People" not just people... it is a closed defined group.

 

[M29since14]

Duh......

 

[LVSteve]

As a legal immigrant who has owned and purchased firearms under all the weird and wonderful rules, I concur with the judge’s decision.

 

[BC38]

The answer to this question isn't even a close call.
The defendant's lawyers are throwing everything they can "up against the wall - just to see what sticks".

Looking at the FACTS of this case:

1) The defendant was in the US illegally. At the most basic level, that defines him as a criminal - someone who has already shown a complete disregard for our laws by breaking the immigration laws of our country.

2) In addition to that foundational violation of the rule of law, he also acquired firearms by repeatedly breaking the existing laws of our country (regardless of whether one sees them as right or wrong) - by lying on the 4473 forms that all of us law-abiding citizens are required to complete to LEGALLY purchase firearms.

So, if this guy isn't prosecuted for these violations of our laws, we are no longer a "nation of laws - rather than a nation of MEN".

The law has to be applied equally to everyone. We can't make every case an exception and still uphold the ideal of EQUAL protections under the law.

JMO...

 

[kraynky]

Appropriate decision... Constitutional protections only apply to US citizens or those lawfully here.

He was in our Country illegally and lied on form 4473 multiple times claiming to be a US citizen. He doesn't have the right to possess firearms, vote or even be here. I hope they confiscate and sell his property and deport him. Legal Ohio taxpayers shouldn't be on the hook for his incarceration.

AMEN! Our United States of America Constitutional rights and laws apply to it's citizens. An illegal immigrant is not a citizen of our Country. Period.

I don't care if they are Canadian, Russian, British, Chinese or Mexican. A legal US citizen is entitled to their rights as a citizen. Illegals in this country illegally are not Citizens, therefore the rights of the citizens are Citizens Rights.

However, the "Laws" of our Country apply to all within her borders. Rights are Rights and Laws are Laws.

At least that is my opinion. The Supreme Court has the ultimate power to decide.

 

[Gunhacker]

Absolutely the correct call. I for one am sick and tired of U.S. Citizen rights being diluted by granting illegal anything's the same level of protections.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives began investigating and watching Serrano-Restrepo after he purchased at least 22 firearms, and claimed to be a U.S. citizen on the firearms forms.

That's the whole case right there.

However, to continue:

Fourteenth Amendment (1868) declared that all persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to its jurisdiction are citizens thereof. It forbids the states to abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States or to deprive any person of life, liberty, or property without due process of law.

(c) Brittanica

Citizens. Legal aliens. Etc. Not illegal aliens who lie on Federal government forms.

 

[pantannojack]

It clearly states "We The People" not just people... it is a closed defined group.

I paid in good faith for my entry to the closed defined group. Military dependent, no long term home or peers. Then Two Year Military Obligation. Honorable Discharge. No felonies. I mean to not be displanted by sycophant pets for the pretenders in power.

 

[dsf]

There are previous and conflicting decisions on this issue from two courts - the 5th and the 7th Circuit. One court determined that illegal aliens are "of the people" and afforded certain rights but that their behavior put them in a category of "prohibited persons" per Congress. Another decided outright that illegal aliens did not have the right.

If we take the approach that illegal aliens are not "of the people" it can be said they do not have the right of free speech or assembly, nor protection against cruel and unusual punishment, nor unlawful search and seizure and so on.

While that may be inviting the courts have already traveled down that path by affording those rights.

The text, which is interesting in that it proposes "of the people" is still to be decided regarding the 2nd Amendment.

https://abc6onyourside.com/resource...418efec3-2ccd1929dd494eb186cac04b841e13d5.pdf

The plaintiff certainly lied on his 4473 for, several times. And can be prohibited on that accord.

I'm not to keen on the "failed to swear allegiance to the US" assertion. Those of us who served in the military did, however only while serving. I doubt most born in the US have done so.

 

[Onomea]

..I doubt most born in the US have done so.

From memory:

I pledge allegiance,
to the flag
of the Unites States of America.

And to the republic,
for which it stands,
one nation, under God, indivisible,
with liberty and justice for all.

A generational thing, I'd guess.

 

[Buford57]

I'm amazed to see someone actually being prosecuted for false statements under the current administration. The statistics I hear from 2A orgs usually put the figure below 10%.

Call me an unrepentant originalist, but I see the Constitution, as amended, as a commitment to safeguard preexisting human rights, not conferring them on select individuals or classes thereof.

 

[BC38]

I'm amazed to see someone actually being prosecuted for false statements under the current administration. The statistics I hear from 2A orgs usually put the figure below 10%.

Call me an unrepentant originalist, but I see the Constitution, as amended, as a commitment to safeguard preexisting human rights, not conferring them on select individuals or classes thereof.

I agree with your assertion that the rights enumerated in the Constitution and Bill of Rights are not granted by those documents, but rather they are acknowledged and guaranteed by those founding documents.

HOWEVER, criminals FORFIET those rights when they commit criminal acts. Thieves, murderers, or even criminal invaders do not (or should not) have the same right to come and go as they please that a law-abiding citizen enjoys. Nor should they. They forfeit those rights when they violate our laws.

When we throw out that principle in the name of "human rights" we throw the whole concept of JUSTICE and consequences for unlawful behavior out the window. The ultimate result of that mindset is anarchy.

 

[SWFan27]

You don't have Constitutional rights if you are not an American citizen.

 

[SWFan27]

From memory:

I pledge allegiance,
to the flag
of the Unites States of America.

And to the republic,
for which it stands,
one nation, under God, indivisible,
with liberty and justice for all.

A generational thing, I'd guess.

I said it in school, and I meant it when I said it. And I still do today. If I visit a foreign country legally or illegally, that does not make me a citizen of that country. Nor does it entitle me to the same rights as a citizen of that country. I would be a guest if there legally. I would be a criminal if I were to be there otherwise.