Federal License How?

[oldguy66]

Can anyone tell me how to get a Federal Firearms License? The gun dealers around me get up-set when I suggest buying a gun from a store on the Internet. If I would run the purchase through them they want some outrageous transfer fee to handle the purchase. Is it a big deal with a lot of paper work and hoops to jump through to get a FFL?

 

[ingmansinc]

You need to contact the BATF for starters. ATF Online - Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

A few of the hoops will involve business licenses, business location suitable with local codes, sales tax number, articles of incorporation, insurance, workers compensation filing, and of course pay the fees and complete the application to the BATF.

It is involved and if you get this far the work has just begun.

I buy from my local dealer as they give me service, a place to visit with other gun owners, drink coffee, and I don't have to worry about getting ripped off by some dishonest jerk on the internet. If my local dealer doesn't have a gun that I want and it is available on the internet then I would pay their fee and forget it. It would be a lot easier and cheaper than becoming an FFL and risking capital and making a career change.

 

[oldman45]

The main thing the Feds look for is a storefront with good security. They do not allow sales from home on new applications. I made an attempt to get a license a few years ago and it took two months for me to decide it is not worth the trouble and I was not going to rent a building just so I could buy guns.

I also found that some larger stores could sell new guns cheaper than I could buy them from the distributor. My only inventory would be basically used guns and they were and are selling so high a person would have difficulty in buying to re sell.

 

[JcMack]

I thought the store front provision was a state or local requirement. Some gun shops around here flat out refuse to receive "in production" guns. I can't understand that as they can charge as much for the handling fee as they would profit from the sale of a new gun.

 

[oldman45]

I thought the store front provision was a state or local requirement. Some gun shops around here flat out refuse to receive "in production" guns. I can't understand that as they can charge as much for the handling fee as they would profit from the sale of a new gun.

Several years ago, I believe it was during the late 90's, the Feds decided that too many people were operating out of their homes and making some questionable sales. To eliminate the amount of firearm dealers, they wrote into the rules that an actual storefront was required before a license could be obtained.

I am not sure if that rule still holds or if it has been done away with. The government changes the rules as they see fit.

On Edit: I found the rule still holds. Here is what is said about licensing requirements.

Now before you fill out your application, there a few basic requirements that the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives says you must meet in order to become licensed. These are as follows:

The first is that you're 21 years of age or older.
The second is that you're not prohibited from possessing firearms.
The third is that you haven't violated any regulations of the Gun Control Act.
The fourth is that you can't lie on your application, or fail to disclose information on it.
The fifth is that you have an approved location or premises that will be used for conducting business or for your gun collection.

Furthermore, once you've met those requirements, you'll also be required to confirm that:

Any business that you're intending to conduct at the licensed location is not prohibited under any state or local laws.
That you'll comply with any local or state laws that may pertain to your business within 30 days of approval of your license.

That you will not do any business until such time as you have met all of the local and state laws that pertain to your business.

You must notify your local Chief of Police via a form, that you intend to apply for a license, and where the licensed location will be.

And finally, you'll need to provide some type of secure storage and safety devices for any firearms that are sold at your location.

 

[JcMack]

I'm talking through my hat here. I really don't know anymore. I do know one friend that moved from Illinois to Indiana because the town he lived in enacted a store front law. When he and a couple other FFL holders attempted to rent a store the village put a lot of obstacles in their way. So some moved and some gave up licenses. As I recall under the Klinton reign 500 more ATF inspectors were put on the streets.

 

[gunlovingirl]

I prefer older guns, so I got a C&R license. But it's only good for 50+ year old guns. So I still have to pay the lgs to do transfers of newer guns. If you have more than one lgs in your area, shop around. The transfer fee can vary widely.

 

[Jellybean]

I had a license in the 80s and I know things changed under the Clinton administration in the 90s, and like most change it wasn't for the better.

The federal license is to allow you to "engage in the business" of dealing in firearms. On of the major requirements is that you have a business with business hours. I don't know if the requirements have changed but when I had mine I had to have a "store" that was open to the public. I was allowed to have it in my house, as long as zoning laws permitted it, but if I did the ATF would be allowed to check the entire house under the regulations.

The changes in the 90s were intended to weed out the license holders that weren't really engaged in the business and were using it for personal purchases or favors. I know it worked because the number of license holders dropped by a large margin.

Local regulations will be a different headache you will have to deal with.

 

[Grog]

I guess I'm lucky to just pay $15-20 for transfers.

 

[OKFC05]

The federal license is to allow you to "engage in the business" of dealing in firearms. On of the major requirements is that you have a business with business hours.

There it is.
If you want an FFL just so you and a few friends can buy guns cheaper, you won't have the license long, if you get it at all. And they will inspect your "business."

 

[oldman45]

Even at best, I think it would take months to obtain and cost a lot of money.

 

[jkc]

If you just want to avoid exorbitant transfer fees, shop around --- On GunBroker.com, click the "For Buyers" button. In the "Before you bid" section, click on "Find a transfer dealer", and enter your Zip Code. This will bring up a list of nearby dealers, most with published transfer fees, which, around here are all over the lot, ranging from $15 - $50, some inexplicably charging more for long guns than handguns...

 

[Jellybean]

Here's a link to FAQs at the ATFs homepage. It looks like they've changed it since the last time I looked at it, hopefully it'll still answer your questions.

ATF Online - Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions

 

[DOEBOY1]

I have my ffl it was not so hard to get just a few hoops. they are people just like we are not trying to take all our guns. they just have a job to do. I have a building that I work out of for all my transfers and charge $25 above the cost of the gun or to transfer a gun. If you add up the time it takes to go through all the steps then you will see unless you are big time then it is not produceing any income. I tend to lose money ordering for someone else when I could be doing my regular job. Doeboy

 

[2152hq]

It was the demand placed upon the applicant/renewal to show that local zoning allow a (firearms) business at the licensed premises that caused many to lose their license or be denied.
There is no requirement for an established 'storefront' that I'm aware of but that zoning requirement demands many applicants go in that direction if they try to have a business.


That change in policy was the big one that came with the changes implimented during the Clinton Admin. The goal was to reduce the number of FFL dealers by more than half and they did just that as I understand.

It became easy to deny a license simply on the basis of the fact that local zoning requirements did not allow such. It was especially effective in a residential area.

Added also was the notification of the local Chief L/E Officer (CLEO) that you had applied for an FFL or later on applied for renewal of an existing FFL. Plus listed business hours (no more 'by appointment only' unless you opt to use your 01FFL for gunsmithing only).
I think they added the 3 year head count of aquisitions/dispositions also then. I don't recall that it was on the renewal before then,,maybe it was.

The first application/renewal form under that new policy back then was a shadow copy of the one used for TitleIII dealers. The applicant had to supply a floor plan drawing of the licensed premises (your home if that's where it is) including all entrances/exits and window locations, lot lines, driveway(s), out buildings and a defined 'X' markings showing the location of FFL record storage, and inventory on the premises.
That in itself scared alot of people away. Then by signing the application/renewal, you consented to search of the entire premises at any time.

That floorplan requirement went away after one time around. Haven't seen it since then.

 

[perrazi]

that was how i lost my ffl after 25yrs. we moved and the batf wouldn't reissue with new address because i zoned for retail even though several others in my town had not lost their licenses. btw, i was doing it for a living then. you can get around the zoning thing if you can get a variance but you will have to comply with everything else.

 

[jrm53]

I had one for about 13 years, you cant believe the hoops they will have for you to jump through or the things you will have to be subjected to it is easier to just find a good dealer and pay the tranfer fees. Jeff

 

[oldman45]

It was the demand placed upon the applicant/renewal to show that local zoning allow a (firearms) business at the licensed premises that caused many to lose their license or be denied.
There is no requirement for an established 'storefront' that I'm aware of but that zoning requirement demands many applicants go in that direction if they try to have a business.

.

Nope, there is a requirement that there be a commercial location, open access to the public, set store hours and much more. The Feds also reserve the right to enter at any time to inventory the records and stock.

As it was said when the rule was enacted, it stops the kitchen table sales.

Zoning is under local law.

 

[2152hq]

Nope, there is a requirement that there be a commercial location, open access to the public, set store hours and much more. The Feds also reserve the right to enter at any time to inventory the records and stock.

As it was said when the rule was enacted, it stops the kitchen table sales.

Zoning is under local law.

I never said there wasn't a commercial zoning requirement,,,only that there was no 'storefront' requirement.

I did say that local zoning laws must allow the firearms business to be established at the applicants location or the application/renewal will be denied. That is a true fact.
That in most instances will call for commercial zoning. However some localitys will allow a home business in a residential area with some restrictions and possibly a variance.
If to comply with necessary local zoning to obtain the license also means establishing a 'storefront' of some sort, that's a local issue of zoning,, not a BATF issue.


I know of 2 local FFL's that kept their 01FFL's when the Clinton changes occured and the Zoning would have put them out of business had they not been able to secure a variance to the zoning code. A PITA for sure for them. I know of several others that were not able to do so.

Yes zoning is under local control. The FFL application and renewals demand (printed proof on the application IIRC) that local zoning will allow the business. Without it,,no license.
I had the Agent stop at the local Town Hall after a compliance check a couple of years ago to verify the zoning once again for my location. I imagine they have to recheck that as local zoning laws change all the time. The FFL renewal only has a place on it where you check the box to verify that the local laws allow the business.

I mentioned the 'open to the public hours' on the application (no 'by appt. only' in most circumstances).
How accessable the business is by the public would be the responsibility of the business owner.
I mentioned the 'subject to search at any time' by L/E (includes the entire building/house) when you sign the application/renewal.

I think I got it right.

Typing this from my kitchen table....
FFL for 39yrs.

 

[R. G. Amos]

The requirements for an FFL were changed during the Clinton administration to discourage people from doing exactly what you want to do. You would have to buy a hell of a lot of guns to compensate for the cost and hassle of getting your own FFL for in effect hobby purposes.