i buy and sell guns, as i'm sure all of you do, quite frequently. here lately, there have been a huge number of people who are buers uinsisting that they can only receive guns from ffl to ffl. i don't get it. if the atf and the fed gov say that a non ffl can ship firearms to an ffl, then why are all these people acting like it's wrong or illegal? i don't own or run a firearms business and neither does my friend who is my ffl. if they insist that he does it, then i tack on $50, for his trouble. that is when they usually back out, but i feel that this is fair. it isn't his job to ship stuff for free and it's unnesessary anyway. i guess my point is that there is no difference between him shippin it or me so why all the extra complication? if i am doin it legal, then it shouldnt break the deal.
ffl to ffl
- Thread starter mr.magnum
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Some FFLs insist on receiving firearms from another FFL only. Don't know why, but it is their option.
Denver Dick
US Veteran
From what I hear it has more to do with the receiving FFL wanting to feel comfortable with "WHO" they are receiving a firearm from rather than thinking they legally must receive a firearm from an FFL. Entering an FFL number is easier and less open to question by AFT if inspected.
I have my 03 FFL (C&R) and a Certificate of Eligibility (COE) from the California Department of Justice. On the few occasions where the 01 FFL, who would be receiving the firearm I'm shipping, insisted on receiving it from an FFL, I offered to provide them with a signed copy of my 03 FFL and COE from California DOJ for identification purposes. On each of the four occasions where this has happened, the receiving FFL agreed to accept my documents and took delivery of the firearm. FWIW
I have my 03 FFL (C&R) and a Certificate of Eligibility (COE) from the California Department of Justice. On the few occasions where the 01 FFL, who would be receiving the firearm I'm shipping, insisted on receiving it from an FFL, I offered to provide them with a signed copy of my 03 FFL and COE from California DOJ for identification purposes. On each of the four occasions where this has happened, the receiving FFL agreed to accept my documents and took delivery of the firearm. FWIW
That's all it is, a level of comfort in receiving an FFL copy to file away and that same info to book the gun in in the bound ledger.
Alot of FFLs feel better with that in hand than a Xerox copy of a D/License and a gun.
There are a few instances where State law may dictate that the receiving FFL can only take delivery from another FFL.
One being in NY State where handguns can only be received from out of state by and from an FFL, wether for transfer or repair.
Alot of FFLs feel better with that in hand than a Xerox copy of a D/License and a gun.
There are a few instances where State law may dictate that the receiving FFL can only take delivery from another FFL.
One being in NY State where handguns can only be received from out of state by and from an FFL, wether for transfer or repair.
I think that some FFL's who are in business have had experiences that some of us don't know about. If you were an FFL, and a gun you got in the mail turned out to be stolen, would you rather have received it from Joe Schmoe the ragman, or from an FFL? What do you think are the relative probabilities of receiving a stolen gun from one as opposed to the other?
Kelly Green
Member
Shipped firearms must be received by an FFL. The sender is not required to have an FFL. Any person legally allowed to own a firearm is legally allowed to ship it to an FFL holder.
ATF 'Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide' (ATF P 5300.4):
(B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier? A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.
ATF 'Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide' (ATF P 5300.4):
(B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier? A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.
oldRoger
US Veteran
The FFL holder who does my transfers has not had a problem personally but knows people who have.
He feels that he needs at least as much information from an out of state transferee as from a new customer walking into his place. The added disadvantage is that over the phone or email he cannot compare the face with the driver’s license photo if a copy is sent to him.
He will ask me: “Do you know this guy”?
The BATFE, bless their hearts, are very concerned that every last “t” is crossed and “i” dotted, no abbreviations are used etc. Consequently FFL holders become very paper work orientated.
Since maintenance of the FFL is basic to the guys business, he must do what he thinks best.
He feels that he needs at least as much information from an out of state transferee as from a new customer walking into his place. The added disadvantage is that over the phone or email he cannot compare the face with the driver’s license photo if a copy is sent to him.
He will ask me: “Do you know this guy”?
The BATFE, bless their hearts, are very concerned that every last “t” is crossed and “i” dotted, no abbreviations are used etc. Consequently FFL holders become very paper work orientated.
Since maintenance of the FFL is basic to the guys business, he must do what he thinks best.
just one more case where crooked jerks and rotten apples make things more difficult fer honest fellas like me. it just ticks me off that i have to go to so much trouble. and the situation that caused this discussion could have all been avoided if the jerk and his ffl knew how to use th u s postal system. my ffl has his lisence for personal use and that of his friends(me) and doesn't own a fax machine. maybe it was all just an excuse to back out of the deal.
An FFL can pass along a stolen firearm just as easily as a nonlicensee. FFL's have no magic system to check for stolen,,NCIC is secured for L/E use only.
FFLs buy from non-licensees all the time,,either at their shop or at gunshows. The used gun goes up for sale on the net, it gets shipped by the FFL.
The FFL doesn't provide any guarentee to the transaction to insure that the gun isn't stolen.
If loosing money by having a (stolen) gun confiscated is a concern,,in the end, it doesn't matter which source it came from. If the gun is shown to be stolen, you the FFL will loose the firearm.
You will not get instant compensation from either an FFL nor a non-licensee that sent it to you.
Both will have received the gun from someone else before sending it to you and the finger pointing starts, but no check writing begins.
The restitution and the crime are two different issues,,neither quickly nor easily sorted out generally.
As long as Mr Schmoe has the proper ID that you demand of him, you keep it on file, you log the firearm properly in (and out), you have nothing to fear of the transaction from the BATFE.
Of course if your suspicions tell you that the gun may be something other than what it's being presented as, then you have the right to refuse the seller/buyer and the transaction.
As long as you follow correct procedures (obtaining proper ID of either the FFL or the non-licensee, booking the gun in and out, etc) you are just another person in the line of possession paper trail.
But as always, the FFL has the option of setting his/her own criteria, and if it makes them feels better rec'vg from another FFL only, then they can set that as a rule in their business.
What ever they want to do. It may hurt their business as others see it,,but when you have an FFL you get protective of it. Especially in todays world.
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Landpimp
Member
when I use to buy alot of guns online, my FFL(which today is me, but before was not, clear as mud right?) just wanted a copy of a drivers lic, we enter that info in the computer(bound book)
But as WA State wants us to collect sales tax on incoming transfers....we just dont do them anymore
But as WA State wants us to collect sales tax on incoming transfers....we just dont do them anymore
That is so if the transaction is run through NICS. But not necessarily so in some states that handle their own background checks. I am a Tn. FFL and we must transmit all of the info about the gun transferred as well as the prospective buyer and the gun is checked to see if it is stolen. This applies to all guns including new ones.
ar15ed
Member
i have at least 3 local ffl holders who will transfer for 10 dollars, then can ship by uspostal priority. the average shipping is less than 15 dollars. there is no way for an individual to ship a handgun by ups or fedex for 25 dollars, not even remotely close! i use the ffl holder 100% of the time!
i have a few friends who are ffl holders, and i can understand why they don't like to receive from individuals. having a ffl license is basically a free pass for batfe to scrutinize any and every aspect of your life, whenever they feel like it! one tiny mistake can easily have your license revoked, and that is the very tip of the iceberg. when an ffl receives a gun from another licensed ffl, the transaction at the shipping dealer's is completely logged into HIS books, and hopefully, HE has at least checked the sender's i.d.! at any rate, you, as the receiving ffl, can prove instantly where YOU got the gun from. i can understand how it would be much less hassle to tell the two batfe agents standing in front of you asking about the glock 23 "i received it from Joe's pawn, ffl #ABCD123, route1 box 12, gambler's grove, WI, on June 12, 2006." instead of "well, it came in the mail to me and as far as i know this is the guy's driver's license number."
i KNOW it is legal, but i can fully understand how a lot of dealers just will not fool with it.
i have a few friends who are ffl holders, and i can understand why they don't like to receive from individuals. having a ffl license is basically a free pass for batfe to scrutinize any and every aspect of your life, whenever they feel like it! one tiny mistake can easily have your license revoked, and that is the very tip of the iceberg. when an ffl receives a gun from another licensed ffl, the transaction at the shipping dealer's is completely logged into HIS books, and hopefully, HE has at least checked the sender's i.d.! at any rate, you, as the receiving ffl, can prove instantly where YOU got the gun from. i can understand how it would be much less hassle to tell the two batfe agents standing in front of you asking about the glock 23 "i received it from Joe's pawn, ffl #ABCD123, route1 box 12, gambler's grove, WI, on June 12, 2006." instead of "well, it came in the mail to me and as far as i know this is the guy's driver's license number."
i KNOW it is legal, but i can fully understand how a lot of dealers just will not fool with it.
If an FFL to FFL transaction is being done, are you required to call the info in to the Tn State authoritys?(no NICS required).
If I am just shipping it to an FFL then no, but If I received it from an FFL or anyone the info on the gun would be transmitted to the state authority before I could transfer the gun to the buyer. If it is stolen I must hold the gun for LE.
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