What are the expenses and troubles of maintaining a FFL. Cheers!
FFL?
- Thread starter Ted Neff
- Start date
Register to hide this ad
I don't know the expenses, but troubles thats a different story.
A good LGS thats been around for a long time and still does stuff the old fashion way with pen and paper, Had the ATF going through his paper work,
they were there for almost a week. If you are going to do this out of your home, how would you like the ATF to show up when you are sitting down to dinner, hint they won't wait for you to enjoy dinner.
I am not a FFL holder and never plan to be, you will get better info from a FFL or 2 I am sure.
Years ago I bought a gun from Dicks, a week later I got a call from Dicks saying my paper work was not filled out proper and I needed to come in and fix it ASAP. While it was their mistake I said I would straighten it out at my next visit to the store.
The manager said if they come to inspect our paper work we will be in big trouble, he offered me all kinds of discounts and coupons if I came in that day. That made my gun purchase one of the best firearm deals I ever made.
A good LGS thats been around for a long time and still does stuff the old fashion way with pen and paper, Had the ATF going through his paper work,
they were there for almost a week. If you are going to do this out of your home, how would you like the ATF to show up when you are sitting down to dinner, hint they won't wait for you to enjoy dinner.
I am not a FFL holder and never plan to be, you will get better info from a FFL or 2 I am sure.
Years ago I bought a gun from Dicks, a week later I got a call from Dicks saying my paper work was not filled out proper and I needed to come in and fix it ASAP. While it was their mistake I said I would straighten it out at my next visit to the store.
The manager said if they come to inspect our paper work we will be in big trouble, he offered me all kinds of discounts and coupons if I came in that day. That made my gun purchase one of the best firearm deals I ever made.
Last edited:
I used to have a FFL and a commercial reloading license FFL. I allowed them to lapse after one cycle (5 years I think) in large part because of the ATF access issue. Also, the local cops produced a policy of formally opposing all residential FFLs within the city limits. The city I live in hates guns and legal gun owners.
sigp220.45
US Veteran
I had one in the 90s when everyone did. Then came a crackdown on things like business hours, zoning restrictions, and inspections, so I let it lapse (like almost everyone did).
I wouldn't bother with it now.
I wouldn't bother with it now.
Store front or home based?
Security system with direct response
with local LE.
Check zoning laws
Harden access
Set hours
Insurance
Inventory & accessories
What ever state and local regulations require.
Secure storage
Security system with direct response
with local LE.
Check zoning laws
Harden access
Set hours
Insurance
Inventory & accessories
What ever state and local regulations require.
Secure storage
If it's a home based business (and an 01FFL IS a business, not a hobby), it must comply with all Local Zoning Laws, Codes and Ordinances.
Signage, Fire, Insurance, Handicap Access, Firearm and Powder storage, security, parking, lighting and on and on.
Some areas are easier to deal with than others by far. Check first if they even allow a home based Fireearms related biz in your zipcode/area/residence if that is what you have in mind.
If you can't meet that simple bar,,you won't be issued the FFL.
It's a Business,,so you will be paying taxes on whatever profit you make, filing the proper Tax forms, etc.
After that it's making sure everything is run as the ATF Book says.
Short cutting the rules will make your business life a short one.
ATF compliance checks are a
sure thing and not always announced before hand.
The 'Business Hours' you must list on the application and renewal are the 'walk-in' hours that the ATF can visit you to check your biz records.
It has nothing to do with the public and doing business with them.
I had ATF checks that were done by them calling first and setting up the time & day. But also blind visits where they just showed up as well.
The checks usually lasted a full business day /plus a couple more hrs.
A few two days.,,and that was just for me as a single prop with a gunsmithing/engraving biz plus buy/sell usually around 40guns per 3yr lic period.
50yrs in it. Out of it now for the last 3 or 4 yrs.
Right now it's the State and local laws that have made it more difficult at least here (NYS) but the Fed regulations are more confusing every yr as well.
You must stay on top of all the laws and changes. Record keeping must be top knotch.
'No excuses excepted' is the general rule from the Gov't.
That's the reason many FFL's opt to the CYA side of anything even remotely seen as unclear in the regs.
Signage, Fire, Insurance, Handicap Access, Firearm and Powder storage, security, parking, lighting and on and on.
Some areas are easier to deal with than others by far. Check first if they even allow a home based Fireearms related biz in your zipcode/area/residence if that is what you have in mind.
If you can't meet that simple bar,,you won't be issued the FFL.
It's a Business,,so you will be paying taxes on whatever profit you make, filing the proper Tax forms, etc.
After that it's making sure everything is run as the ATF Book says.
Short cutting the rules will make your business life a short one.
ATF compliance checks are a
sure thing and not always announced before hand.
The 'Business Hours' you must list on the application and renewal are the 'walk-in' hours that the ATF can visit you to check your biz records.
It has nothing to do with the public and doing business with them.
I had ATF checks that were done by them calling first and setting up the time & day. But also blind visits where they just showed up as well.
The checks usually lasted a full business day /plus a couple more hrs.
A few two days.,,and that was just for me as a single prop with a gunsmithing/engraving biz plus buy/sell usually around 40guns per 3yr lic period.
50yrs in it. Out of it now for the last 3 or 4 yrs.
Right now it's the State and local laws that have made it more difficult at least here (NYS) but the Fed regulations are more confusing every yr as well.
You must stay on top of all the laws and changes. Record keeping must be top knotch.
'No excuses excepted' is the general rule from the Gov't.
That's the reason many FFL's opt to the CYA side of anything even remotely seen as unclear in the regs.
Excellent response,/\ /\ more detailed than mine.
All apply whether home based or store front.
All apply whether home based or store front.
Biggest trouble is that you have to know what you are doing. Be familiar with laws and regulations and have a lot of capital to invest for a fairly low return in a competitive market. Having administrative skills and being good in sales will help but those qualities can be put to better use in other fields.
Asking here in this form after having signed up recently is not a qualifier.
Asking here in this form after having signed up recently is not a qualifier.
Last edited:
OP
Thanks for all the input. You all talked me out of it. Cheers
The FFL 01 is for a Business. If you are a collector/Hobbyist you should consider a FFL 03 Which is a Collector of Curio and Relic guns. Allows you to purchase any firearm over 50 years old at any gun show, out of state, etc. Order by mail and have shipped directly to your residence.
I have had one for about 15 years, and the cost is $30 for a 3 year license. You have to maintain the same records as an FFL 01, but you are not inspected, you are not a business.
But if you plan to buy and sell and intend to make a profit, you are a business and need an FFL01.
I have had one for about 15 years, and the cost is $30 for a 3 year license. You have to maintain the same records as an FFL 01, but you are not inspected, you are not a business.
But if you plan to buy and sell and intend to make a profit, you are a business and need an FFL01.
I had an 01 FFL for a number of years but gave it up do the constant changes. Then I had the 03 C&R, but gave it up after the golden days of cheap imports started drying up. I'd probably get an 01 again, but my current location is zoned residential and I've been told that zoning is one of the first things they look at when trying to find reasons to deny your application.
Beemer-mark
Member
I had an '03 C&R license for decades. Gave it up on the last renewal. While you're required to keep a log you don't give your log book (like an '01 FFL) to the ATF when you do not renew. Less risk paying the local FFL $20 to receive a firearm.
GypsmJim
Member
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2009
- Messages
- 4,117
- Reaction score
- 7,247
I have had an 03 FFL for 26 years. Back in the golden era of milsurps the rifles I bought for $19 - $29 - $39 are now selling in the $650 range.
Although I haven't used it in a few years now, for the meager sum of $10 a year I have no intention of giving something up that may eventually be unobtainium for new applications.
Also, in my area $20 FFL charges are long a thing of the past. My last purchase cost $50 for a non C&R purchase.
Last edited:
My friend and FFL used to own a home-based firearm's finishing business. His specialty was fine double barrel shotguns although he could work on nearly anything and has done excellent work for me. He is still using the FFL based on his firearm finishing business, which was home based. He has always done everything possible by the book including completely separate entrance to his home and business. He is quite certain that if he let his current basis for keeping an FFL lapse, he would never get approved for another. He is in his early eighties and doesn't do much "work" anymore but what he does do is still at the top of his game, just a bit slower. I can remember knowing at least a dozen guys that had an FFL back in the 70's and 80's, one guy was on a rotating list that Goodwill used when cleaning out a home and running across a firearm, they were not allowed to even touch a firearm and would make a call to guy supposedly next on the list. He said he would get a call from the office, the boss was a friend and would let him off for the time needed to check the call out. 90% of the time it was some stinker of a wall hanger but the rest of the time it worked out well for him. He was the only guy I knew that had two complete Model 70 Winchester collections, one pre-war, one pre-64. I remember him showing me his pride and joy was a near mint pre-war .22 hornet.
jrm53
Member
I had a FFL in the early 80's thru 94, I never had a visit from the feds but after B Clinton got in I got out shortly after because I live in Ar and and he was the governor and I just thought was time to move on the down side over rules the benefits. Jeff
A friend has one that is home based. He got it in the last ten years and does OK. He is in law enforcement and does a lot of transfers and estates for friends. It is nice to know a guy you can trust. His wife has a law degree and their paperwork is top quality.
I am sure that he knows the hassles of the BATF and considers what he does worth the risk and worth the hassle.
I also know that the courts determined that while the IRS had to be allowed into your home or place of business to examine paperwork, there was no requirement that they be furnished with heat, cooling or light to do so. I assume that is the same for the BATF. Of course, if I were an agent of either and denied this I would look until I found something wrong.
I am sure that he knows the hassles of the BATF and considers what he does worth the risk and worth the hassle.
I also know that the courts determined that while the IRS had to be allowed into your home or place of business to examine paperwork, there was no requirement that they be furnished with heat, cooling or light to do so. I assume that is the same for the BATF. Of course, if I were an agent of either and denied this I would look until I found something wrong.
Had a C&R and when I sold or bought at a gun show I needed to see their drivers license. Most never let me see it to copy the information needed to log it in my log book. Lost some deals so I gave it up, seemed easier just to pay for an occasional on line purchase. Larry
Similar threads
- Locked
Sold/Withdrawn
WTS S&W MODEL 18-3 .22LR W/FACTORY BOX VG CONDITION
