Figuring out what I have

[Ron16851]

A customer brought me this S&W .32-44 CTG top break revolver and wanted me to identify/evaluate/value. He has no clue on what the markings mean, in the box with the gun was a old box of .32-20 cases and he asked if this is what it shot. I told him those wouldn't even chamber in it.

Looking for assistance to help me make sure I am giving good info to him. I'm not sure of the forums regs on giving appraisals - if not allowed that's fine. If allowed I'd like to get a ballpark. I can try to grade it using the Standard Catalog and go with that.

Using my 3rd edition of the S&W Standard Catalog I have determined (guessed) that it is a New Model Number Three Target.

It is a single action, .32-44 S&W CTG (marked on the left side of the barrel just ahead of the cylinder).

Here are some other facts:

Wood grips (checkered but no S&W emblem)

S&W logo on frame just below the hammer

Target rear sight

Front sight is rounded with a white dot (not sure if this was done as a modification later, I see no evidence of any work being done anywhere on the revolver)

<*>Smith & Wesson Springfield Mass USA<*> on top of barrel starting immediately after the rear of the front sight (<*> is the best way I can describe it on the computer - it's a filled triangle with something in between)

Side plate on left with 3 screws

One screw on bottom front of grip (tension screw I assume)

Serial number on bottom of grip (but barely readable because it looks like the original stamping was botched a bit)

Serial number (I presume) on the rear of the cylinder which kinda matches what you can make out on the grip.
The serial number is 3757)

Hammer appears to be case hardened

Barrel is 5 1/8" B/C gap - .010 is very tight, .008 is snug, .007 is looser.

Does have a turn line on the cylinder and wear and tear marks but the bore and chambers are pristine, rifling is sharp and crisp. I would grade as Very Good to low Excellent

If there is anything I need to add, pics or whatever, let me know. I'm pretty intrigued by this piece.

 

[opoefc]

Looks to me to be a standard .32/44 Target New Model #3 that has had the barrel cutback to the 5+ inch length from the original 6 1/ in bbl. and a new front sight installed. Are the stocks numbered to the gun ? Ed.

 

[Ron16851]

Tomorrow I'll pull the grips and take a good picture of the muzzle and front sight and post it.

 

[22/32 JDF]

Great gun. JIM

 

[mmaher94087]

Agree with opoefc. Nice revolver and somewhat scarce in the .32-44 caliber. Barrels were originally 6 1/2".

 

[Oyeboteb]

Tomorrow I'll pull the grips and take a good picture of the muzzle and front sight and post it.

Can you also please post us a picture looking in to the Cylinder Chambers so we can see all the way in well, and see how they are bored?

 

[Ron16851]

The grips are not marked with the S/N.

Here's some pictures of the front of the barrel, front sight and chambers

 

[Ron16851]

I am assuming at this time that this would not be considered a "Collectors" revolver (to a point) if the barrel has been chopped and the front sight replaced. What might be the street value?

Also, what cartridge might be safely fired through it? .32 S&W Short or Long?

 

[first-model]

Also, what cartridge might be safely fired through it? .32 S&W Short or Long?

Neither. I believe that 32-44 was a unique cartridge that was exclusive to this gun, and there is no other cartridge that can be safely chambered and fired.

Mike

 

[Oyeboteb]

I am assuming at this time that this would not be considered a "Collectors" revolver (to a point) if the barrel has been chopped and the front sight replaced. What might be the street value?

Also, what cartridge might be safely fired through it? .32 S&W Short or Long?

If you have a good Verneer Caliper, measure your Cylinder Chambers, and, cylinder Bores, and the Barrel's Groove-to-Groove and let us know what those are.

Depth of Cylinder Chamber will be about 31/32nds of an inch, if the Chamber is for the .32 - 44 Cartridge.

Here is your image -

Hosted on Fotki

Here is an image of my .32 - 44 Cylinder -

Hosted on Fotki


.32 - 44 was a Black Powder Target Cartridge and was a larger (about ten/thousandths roughly larger ) diameter Cartridge Case and Bullet, than the other "32"s.

Here is a neighboring Thread going on right now, in which this Cartridge is enjoying some discussion and analysis -

?Value on a N Mod #3 ?

 

[Ron16851]

Cylinder length- 1.423"
Rear of chamber - 0.345"
Front of chamber - 0.320
Groove to Groove dia - 0.320"

I looked over the other thread but no one seems to want to give a value. The one talked about there it was said it had about 10% of the finish and one person mentioned 1000

The one I have is easily 60-70% finish. My customer would just like to know what it might be worth to decide whether or not to keep or sell. If it is worth a pretty good amount he will probably keep it to pass on. If it's just a shooter and not worth as much he will probably sell it.

 

[first-model]

The one I have is easily 60-70% finish. My customer would just like to know what it might be worth to decide whether or not to keep or sell. If it is worth a pretty good amount he will probably keep it to pass on. If it's just a shooter and not worth as much he will probably sell it.

I don't blame people for not wanting to venture a value on this. I've been thinking about it all afternoon and I'm still drawing a blank on how to value this gun properly.

I guess if I was looking to add it to my collection (which I'm not; I don't collect Model 3's), I'd probably be looking in the range of $750. I think you're going to struggle to find a buyer for much more than that, since uncut guns have sold for less than $2K.

Mike

 

[handejector]

Look close for the number on the right grip. It was probably written in pencil.
Your front sight looks like an ivory bead.

I think it's a pretty cool old gun. Even cut, it might bring 1000.


Now, who has seen this rear sight before? I don't recall seeing one with those two white lines.......maybe one years ago. I like it!

 

[mikepriwer]

That front sight blade looks like a Sheard or Marble blade - I forget which.

Regards, Mike Priwer

 

[scooter123]

Zoom in on that pic of the white lines. That isn't paint there is a milled recess across the sight blade. IMO it's an Ivory Insert and may have been done at S&W.

 

[Ron16851]

Mike (first-model) and handejector, thanks for the estimates, that is sorta what I have been leaning towards by the comments and because it has been modified.

Scooter123, you are correct sir, it is not paint, those are actually something embedded into the recesses. As old as it is it very well could be ivory.

On the left side of the front sight there are these markings: N'S above CT 6, 85

I could find no other markings on the rear sight. The top of the rear sight is serrated horizontally, and is angled from rear (high) to front (lower), the rear is serrated vertically

Could not find any markings on the inside of the grips. Used a bright light at different angles and nothing showed up.

 

[Ron16851]

Well, I passed on to the owner all the information and thoughts I gathered here.

As it stands right now, my customer is going to hold on to it for now and think about what he wants to do with it. He said he was going to research the 32-44 cartridge to see if it would be viable to try to find some to shoot or to find empty brass to reload.

I don't think he will, and I suspect we will be back to me to see about selling it. Although it has been in his family for a long time, there is no history on it at all.

I thank all who helped me, I learned a lot.

 

[Oyeboteb]

Well, I passed on to the owner all the information and thoughts I gathered here.

As it stands right now, my customer is going to hold on to it for now and think about what he wants to do with it. He said he was going to research the 32-44 cartridge to see if it would be viable to try to find some to shoot or to find empty brass to reload.

I don't think he will, and I suspect we will be back to me to see about selling it. Although it has been in his family for a long time, there is no history on it at all.

I thank all who helped me, I learned a lot.

Fun Gun, fun thread...

Ammunition wise - You could have them review this on-going Thread if they can access the internet -

?Value on a N Mod #3 ?

One can make functional Cartridge Cases for .32 - 44 via re-forming other kinds of Cartridge Cases, if one has the equipment and skill.

This is not a "32" in the usual sense of .32 S & W, .32 Colt, etc.

The Cartridge Case and Bullet are 10 Thousands of an inch larger in Diameter than those.

The Ammunition ( or Brass of same ) was made only in very limited amounts to begin with, and production of it had supposedly ended by 1910.

It's a neat little Gun in it's way, and I think everyone here liked it.