First 1905, with a twist...

[Darreld Walton]

Picked up this piece, was tagged as a model 10, but it had an adjustable rear sight that was obviously not S&W, as well as a front gold bead on thin post front. Five inch pencil barrel, s/n 3093XX, no prefix, later non-matching grips. Cleaned up well.
Anyone encountered this rear sight, know the maker, or who might have installed it?
Thanks!

 

[glowe]

It was done by a company by the name of Smith & Wesson. That serial number would indicate that the gun was shipped from the factory in about 1920. Also, you measure the barrel length from the front of the cylinder, making it a 6" by my guess. The model would be 38 Military & Police, 4th Change.

 

[DWalt]

Looks like an early S&W rear sight from what I can see. Grips are not original.

 

[JP@AK]

You found a .38 Military & Police target model from 1919. Both the front and rear sights are what are commonly found on this model.

I'm not sure about the finish. It would be good to see a clear photo of the right side of this revolver.

The stocks are much later; they date from the 1946-1952 period. Originally, yours would have had checked Circassian walnut service stocks with the recessed gold medallion. Those postwar stocks have some value of their own.

Overall, this would be a nice addition to any M&P collection.

 

[Darreld Walton]

Understood that the stocks are clearly incorrect, and knew that going in, but I am a complete noob on target models of that vintage. So I stumbled into another weird one, eh?

 

[Darreld Walton]

It was done by a company by the name of Smith & Wesson. That serial number would indicate that the gun was shipped from the factory in about 1920. Also, you measure the barrel length from the front of the cylinder, making it a 6" by my guess. The model would be 38 Military & Police, 4th Change.

You're quite right, I'd measured it correctly but my mind kept saying five instead of six! It is indeed six inches from front of cylinder to end of muzzle.

 

[glowe]

You might try to find some original stocks for the gun. They would look like those on one of my targets from the same era.

 

[Darreld Walton]

You found a .38 Military & Police target model from 1919. Both the front and rear sights are what are commonly found on this model.

I'm not sure about the finish. It would be good to see a clear photo of the right side of this revolver.

The stocks are much later; they date from the 1946-1952 period. Originally, yours would have had checked Circassian walnut service stocks with the recessed gold medallion. Those postwar stocks have some value of their own.

Overall, this would be a nice addition to any M&P collection.

Sorry, I'm not a photographer. If you need to have an ICBM built and targeted, I'm your guy. I've tried to get as clear images as I can with the equipment I have that will cooperate with me. I do not see the S&W logo on either side of the revolver, last patent date that I see on the barrel appears to my eyes to be December of 1914, first October of 1901. All five serial numbers match, if that's interesting to anyone.
I figured to be on the lookout for an original, or near correct set of grips, but in the meantime, I may whittle out a set of shooting/target grips for grins to use for now. What the heck. Momma don't like me no more, and I'm too slow to catch any of the other ones, unless I snare 'em with my cane, and I wouldn't know what to do with 'em after I caught one, anyway!!

 

[handejector]

So I stumbled into another weird one, eh?

No, not weird. Just a nice old Target M&P from just after WW I. The finish looks right to me for the early Post WW I production. It took awhile to get back to the gorgeous high polish of the Pre War years. They had not done it for a couple of years!

 

[Darreld Walton]

You might try to find some original stocks for the gun. They would look like those on one of my targets from the same era.

HA!! I sent a set of stocks that are a dead ringer for those that fit an "N" frame to a dear friend over in Dimondale a couple years back!
Take 'er easy!

 

[Darreld Walton]

No, not weird. Just a nice old Target M&P from just after WW I. The finish looks right to me for the early Post WW I production. It took awhile to get back to the gorgeous high polish of the Pre War years. They had not done it for a couple of years!

Lee, this little revolver will fit just fine with my collection of M1903 Springfields and M1917's from that era. I've been on the lookout for the 'right' S&W 1917 for awhile, MAN have they gotten pricey! I had a Colt for awhile, but it had the absolute worst trigger I've ever had in my hand, and let it be someone else's treasure.
The 1903's prior to the war were blued, too, but the Parker Process of refinishing parts was introduced in the field in theater circa 1918, as it could be done quickly, with a minimum of preparation, and, well, it shows in US Martial Arms clear through to the present. The entire world had a lot of catching up to do in the early 20's.

 

[RKmesa]

Congrats - Great gun!!! Here is another example from that same era - SN 393657 is a well-used M&P Target that shipped in July 1921:





Thanks for sharing,

 

[JP@AK]

Guys

You keep showing Darreld stocks from the 1920s. But I remain unconvinced that his revolver dates to 1920 or later. He gave 3093xx as the serial number. .38 M&P serial number 316648 was assembled in September 1919. Isn't it much more likely that Darreld's M&P target is from 1919? In that case, it would have had the gold medallion stocks fitted to it.

If he is inclined to spend money on period correct stocks, I'd think we should encourage him to get a letter for the gun first. Even if it turns out that it shipped in 1920, I still think the stocks would likely be of the 1919 style. Perhaps a letter would confirm that (but it might just say "walnut square butt stocks").

 

[RKmesa]

Guys

You keep showing Darreld stocks from the 1920s. But I remain unconvinced that his revolver dates to 1920 or later. He gave 3093xx as the serial number. .38 M&P serial number 316648 was assembled in September 1919. Isn't it much more likely that Darreld's M&P target is from 1919? In that case, it would have had the gold medallion stocks fitted to it.

If he is inclined to spend money on period correct stocks, I'd think we should encourage him to get a letter for the gun first. Even if it turns out that it shipped in 1920, I still think the stocks would likely be of the 1919 style. Perhaps a letter would confirm that (but it might just say "walnut square butt stocks").

Joe:

I read that there was a period of overlap on the gold medallioned stocks (about 1910 to about 1920) and the convex non-medallioned stocks (about 1917 to about 1929). We also know that S&W used what was at hand when they assembled revolvers. So... I agree that depending on when the revolver shipped and what S&W had on hand, it could have shipped with either the convex non-medallioned stocks (pictured above) or the gold medallioned stocks like the stocks on this Oct 1910 shipped, 6.5" barreled M&P Target:





BTW I really like the gold medallioned stocks - one of my favorite styles of all S&W stocks.

 

[handejector]

Guys

You keep showing Darreld stocks from the 1920s. But I remain unconvinced that his revolver dates to 1920 or later. He gave 3093xx as the serial number. .38 M&P serial number 316648 was assembled in September 1919. Isn't it much more likely that Darreld's M&P target is from 1919? In that case, it would have had the gold medallion stocks fitted to it.

If he is inclined to spend money on period correct stocks, I'd think we should encourage him to get a letter for the gun first. Even if it turns out that it shipped in 1920, I still think the stocks would likely be of the 1919 style. Perhaps a letter would confirm that (but it might just say "walnut square butt stocks").

Jack,
You may be right, but I'm not convinced any Gold medallions shipped after the war. Do you have any guns with a Post War date that have Gold medallions numbered to the gun that are convincingly original?

 

[glowe]

309290 Target shipped in January, 1920 but the OP's could have been 1919?? No way of knowing unless the OP gets a factory historical letter. Also, I have been looking at gold medallion K frame stocks for the last 20 years and never found a single one that shipped in 1920 or later. As I can determine, the transition took place on the start of the decade, every decade from 1910 to the start of WWII. I think it was a deliberate decision by the company and maybe leftover stocks went to the Service Department at the start of each decade to be used on repairs. Silver medallions do show up on post WWII M&Ps.

 

[JP@AK]

Jack,
You may be right, but I'm not convinced any Gold medallions shipped after the war. Do you have any guns with a Post War date that have Gold medallions numbered to the gun that are convincingly original?

Lee
I do not have any .38 M&Ps from that period. However, I do have two 32-20s. One shipped in December 1916 and one in June 1917. Both of those wear confirmed original gold medallion stocks.

I know that I've seen several M&Ps that shipped in 1919, wearing the gold medallion stocks. I have also seen one M&P that shipped in very early 1920 wearing those stocks. I cannot confirm that the stocks were original on any of those guns, however, but they didn't show any indication of poor fitment (for whatever that's worth).

 

[glowe]

Below, I have one 32 WCF that shipped in March 1920, #85057. It is certain fact that one will find a 1920 shipped gun with gold medallions, but most likely manufactured in 1919. I agree that early post-WWI guns had gold medallions. Some notes in the old SWCA database note 1919 shipped guns with gold medallion stocks as well. One such example was a Sam Miller/Roy Jinks entry that states #83101 shipped in November 1919 with gold medallion stocks.

 

[mikepriwer]

The front sight blade says STEWART. That is not Marble, and it's not Sheard. I've not aware of a front sight blade, with that name.

Mike Priwer

 

[glowe]

Marbles carried Stewart sights and they were marked with both names. I have only seen them on a 1910s rifles, but not on revolvers?