First post, need help identifying hand ejector.

[Galak]

Hello everyone,

I have been trying to figure out what I have acquired. My googling landed me here, and this community seems very very knowledgeable!

It was allegedly a .455 Webley but had been converted into a .45 auto rim. Barrel length is 6 1/2 inch.

I appreciate any and all help!

Thanks!

 

[murphydog]

Welcome! You have a .455 Mk II (the cartridge, aka "Webley") Hand Ejector 2nd model, made for the British during WW I.

There were/are two ways to increase headspace from the thin rimmed .455 to the .45 ACP/Colt; one is shaving the rear cylinder face. You can tell this by a missing serial number there.

The second method involves taking a small amount of metal off the recoil shield and counterboring the charge holes slightly. Either method works but this one looks nicer.

.45 ACP/Auto Rim runs at higher pressure than .455 Webley, so lighter target type loads would be advisable. Enjoy!

 

[Absalom]

Indeed, interesting gun. Welcome to the forum. We have some experts here on these; until they show up, I can tell you that this was originally a .455 Hand Ejector 2nd Model made for the British in 1916. It was also surplused out in Britain and thus has both pre-service acceptance markings and post-service commercial proofs, besides the factory stampings and the converter’s caliber change marks.

 

[Wiregrassguy]

Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass!

 

[Galak]

Awesome! Thanks for the quick response! The serial number is still on the rear of the cylinder.

If using .45acp this will require moon clips correct?

Are these revolvers notoriously inaccurate due presumably to conversion?

I apologize for the series of questions. This is admittedly my first smith revolver.

Thanks!

 

[Absalom]

...
Are these revolvers notoriously inaccurate due presumably to conversion?

No. Certainly not notorious. The issue is more the case length and rim than the diameter. The nominal diameter of the .45 is .452, of the .455 it is .454. So especially with lead bullets, the difference is irrelevant for handgun distance accuracy.

 

[Muley Gil]

Welcome to the Forum.

I find it odd that the serial number is present on the cylinder. Generally, the much greater headspace required for .45 ACP rounds in clips would mean that a lot of metal would need to be removed from the rear face of the cylinder and the serial number would be gone. Does this cylinder SN match the SN stamped on the butt?

 

[delcrossv]

Welcome to the Forum.

I find it odd that the serial number is present on the cylinder. Generally, the much greater headspace required for .45 ACP rounds in clips would mean that a lot of metal would need to be removed from the rear face of the cylinder and the serial number would be gone. Does this cylinder SN match the SN stamped on the butt?

Need a picture of the rear of the cylinder to see how they did it. If counterbored, you couldn't use moons. You'd need auto rim cartridges.

45 ACP/Auto Rim runs at higher pressure than .455 Webley, so lighter target type loads would be advisable. Enjoy!

Yep. Full on acp/auto rim loadings would be proof loads for this gun. Not Advisable.

 

[Muley Gil]

Factory .45 Auto Rim rounds are usually milder than .45 ACP.

 

[Absalom]

.... If counterbored, you couldn't use moons. You'd need auto rim cartridges.

I would suspect this to be the case just due to the fact that the caliber stamping has been specifically amended with “A.R.”

Or was that commonly put on all conversions?

 

[Galak]

Need a picture of the rear of the cylinder to see how they did it. If counterbored, you couldn't use moons. You'd need auto rim cartridges.


Yep. Full on acp/auto rim loadings would be proof loads for this gun. Not Advisable.

The rear of the cylinder

 

[delta-419]

.455 Conversion

A photo of the face of the recoil shield would help. The gap between the shield and rear of the cylinder seems large from the side view of the revolver. If it is shaved, it would accmodate the moon clips for a .45ACP. If you reload, lead bullets are available and loads could be crafted for reduced pressures. I reload for a number of these guns in my collection plus those converted to .45LC. Enjoy!

 

[Pizza Bob]

Not at all what I expected to see. I figured that they had counterbored the cylinder to accept the Auto Rim cartridge rim. Apparently the rear of the cylinder has been milled. I would have to guess that the serial number was restamped. If this is the case, then you should be able to use .45 ACP in moon clips. BUT, as others have warned, use light loads.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

 

[Galak]

A photo of the face of the recoil shield would help. The gap between the shield and rear of the cylinder seems large from the side view of the revolver. If it is shaved, it would accmodate the moon clips for a .45ACP. If you reload, lead bullets are available and loads could be crafted for reduced pressures. I reload for a number of these guns in my collection plus those converted to .45LC. Enjoy!

Is this image helpful?

I have been looking to get into reloading, it’s just a poor time to find the supplies honestly.

Thanks!

 

[Muley Gil]

Galak, have you tried to chamber a .45 Auto Rim cartridge or .45 ACP rounds in full or moon clips? Or perhaps a .45 Colt cartridge, though the chambers don't look long enough or deep enough?

 

[handejector]

Apparently the rear of the cylinder has been milled. I would have to guess that the serial number was restamped.

I agree. You can tell the cyl has been shaved because the locking notches are so close to the rear edge. Also, the extractor appears to be in the white. The recoil shield has not been shaved.
It is not reamed to 45 Colt.

 

[Hondo44]

I agree the recoil shield has not been shaved, it still has the ramped surfaces for fully seating the rims as the cartridges rotate into battery. The cyl face had to have been shaved. And although re stamping the serial # is hardly ever seen, it is nonetheless obvious because the font is so different from the old time period font of the butt serial #.

Having the cyl shaved requires a new frame lug in the lower right cyl window corner to prevent excess fore and aft cyl play. If that’s the case with your gun and you do have excess movement, the frame lug was not corrected.

If the cylinder chambers had been recessed, the use of 455 ammo would be retained since it’s larger diameter rim does not fit into the recesses for the smaller 45 AR rim diameter. Although it's likely still possible to shoot 455 because of the extra long hammer noses (firing pins) used in that period.


The 45 AR is designed for revolvers and therefore has 25% lower operating pressures than ACP (15,000 which is the same as 455 vs. 45 ACP ~20,000) due to the fact that AR does not require and is not designed to reliably operate 45 auto pistol slides. Therefore AR is safe in non-heat treated cyls like the 455 cyls. And the AR lead bullets create less pressure as well while having the accuracy advantage of gripping the rifling in the slightly oversize 455 bore.

Therefore I would not shoot factory ACP ammo in your 455 because it does not have the heat treated cyls of the 1917 ACP revolvers, although it would work but only with half or full moon clips of course.

 

[Hondo44]

Note: if you remove the yoke and cyl, beware of 'launching' and losing the pin and spring of the cyl detent/hold open device from the yoke joint. Do this inside a zip lock bag or with a towel over the gun as you pull the yoke and cyl assembly forward out of the frame.

 

[Galak]

Galak, have you tried to chamber a .45 Auto Rim cartridge or .45 ACP rounds in full or moon clips? Or perhaps a .45 Colt cartridge, though the chambers don't look long enough or deep enough?

Hey there, I currently have moon clips on order and headed my way in the mail. I placed .45 colt in the cylinder but it wasn’t deep enough to accept it. I’ll be procuring a box of auto rim and perhaps .455 webley if I can find some.

How different is this hand ejector from a 1917? Is there any part interchangeability?

 

[H Richard]

There should be no difference in part interchangeability with a 1917. Be aware that when these guns were made they were fitted by gunsmiths, so any parts you might want/need to change would probably have to be fitted, and wouldn't be a drop in fit.

 

[steelslaver]

If you plan on shooting acp ammo in it you would be better off getting a 1917 or newer N frame 45acp cylinder for it. 455 rounds may or may not fire in it it the cylinder was shaved. 455 have very thin rims
(.040)and AR cases have a real thick rim (.083). Your firing pin tip (hammer nose) may not reach primers very well on 455.