First Time Seating Bullets, Not Good!

[scattershot]

Not to inject another variable into the mix, but 150 grains is not a standard weight for the .38 special. That may be the reason you aren't finding much load data for it. If I were to guess, I'd say those bullets were for a .38 SUPER, which is a round for a semiauto pistol. In that case, the diameter is off, too, so you may never get consistent accuracy in your 38.

You might be happier and less frustrated by getting the correct bullets to start with. That way, there won't be so much of a "fudge factor" at each step, and you will be able to figure out why each step is the way it is. Lots of good advice here, and you're off to a good start by asking questions. Good luck!

 

[kbm6893]

Not to inject another variable into the mix, but 150 grains is not a standard weight for the .38 special. That may be the reason you aren't finding much load data for it. If I were to guess, I'd say those bullets were for a .38 SUPER, which is a round for a semiauto pistol. In that case, the diameter is off, too, so you may never get consistent accuracy in your 38.

You might be happier and less frustrated by getting the correct bullets to start with. That way, there won't be so much of a "fudge factor" at each step, and you will be able to figure out why each step is the way it is. Lots of good advice here, and you're off to a good start by asking questions. Good luck!

Thanks but I got these from a reloading shop and specifically asked the owner. I know what 38 Super is and the box is marked 38 special. While I now know the round is not a common one I do not believe they are 38 supers. As for accuracy, for this batch I really don't care. Just looking to blast for fun. As I learn more I will change my goals but as long as these are safe to fire I will shoot them!

 

[Rule3]

Have a few more questions. First of all, as the bullet gets pressed, the waxy grease forms a ring around the base of the bullet at the crimp. I wiped it off with paper towel. Should I not dot hat and just re-spread it on there?

The seating part doesn't stay 100% constant. One came out 1.778, while the others were right around 1.46. These will be shot in a .357. Is there a way to lock down the seating knob? Doesn't say anything in the manual.

SO I'm gonna be using Red Dot and using data from a 158 grain lswc. Right around 3.0 grains. Is this OK/ I do have a Lyman manual that lists data for a 150 grain bullet which, is what I have, but it's a button nose wadcutter. Has me starting out at just under 3.0 grains.

When these lead bullets are gone, I plan to either go to a 158 grain LSWC, which Red Dot has a recipe for, or a plated bullet in 158 grain as well. Would the data for a round nose 158 grain be all that different then for a LSWC?l

lots more reading to do, but I feel I have turned a corner. Thanks to everyone, especially Rule3

Thank you Sir, The website has been down all day. Those look a lot better!!

The seating OAL should not be changing? I do not know why that would be happening that much?? The seating depth is controlled only buy the little knob on top which is friction held by the o ring, Once the whole die is locked into the LnL bushing nothing should be moving??

Without seeing it I can not at all figure that out??

The picture looks good, when you shoot them just go slow and make sure each one leaves the barrel and that you do not have a squib. Bring a 1/4 oak dowel to tap it out if you do. Do not panic remain calm, empty the cylinders and get out a big hammer (kidding) I carry them in my range bag for some of the "what happened" folks at our range.

Get a box of these: softer lead for target velocities, can use them in 357 also at medium velocity.

Missouri Bullet Company




As suggested , ditch those bullets get some 158 gr LSWC from say Missouri Bullets and all you need to do is load them to the cannelure, As I said before tha powder charge for the same weight bullet/ type will be the same, the COL will vary due to the shape, The weight of the bullet can be in the base or the nose depending on the shape.

 

[rwsmith]

If you have mixed brass.........

If you have mixed brass or brass from different lots they can differ in length, and that affects crimping A LOT. You don't have to trim pistol/revolver brass but for uniformity it would be a good idea to do it ONCE. I have a Lee trimmer set up in my drill press and it takes about 3 seconds to trim a case. There's no reason for me not to trim the brass because it's fast and easy as pie.

 

[kbm6893]

Thank you Sir, The website has been down all day. Those look a lot better!!

The seating OAL should not be changing? I do not know why that would be happening that much?? The seating depth is controlled only buy the little knob on top which is friction held by the o ring, Once the whole die is locked into the LnL bushing nothing should be moving??

Without seeing it I can not at all figure that out??

The picture looks good, when you shoot them just go slow and make sure each one leaves the barrel and that you do not have a squib. Bring a 1/4 oak dowel to tap it out if you do. Do not panic remain calm, empty the cylinders and get out a big hammer (kidding) I carry them in my range bag for some of the "what happened" folks at our range.

Get a box of these: softer lead for target velocities, can use them in 357 also at medium velocity.

Missouri Bullet Company




As suggested , ditch those bullets get some 158 gr LSWC from say Missouri Bullets and all you need to do is load them to the cannelure, As I said before tha powder charge for the same weight bullet/ type will be the same, the COL will vary due to the shape, The weight of the bullet can be in the base or the nose depending on the shape.

Maybe I didn't press hard enough on the handle? I was only loading dummy rounds so maybe. So you would advise me not to load these bullets?

How's the leading in your gun when shooting lead? Berrys has plated bullets which are a bit more but if it saves me clean up time maybe worth it

 

[kbm6893]

If you have mixed brass or brass from different lots they can differ in length, and that affects crimping A LOT. You don't have to trim pistol/revolver brass but for uniformity it would be a good idea to do it ONCE. I have a Lee trimmer set up in my drill press and it takes about 3 seconds to trim a case. There's no reason for me not to trim the brass because it's fast and easy as pie.

You trim then chamfer and deburr? I have the lee attachment for the drill but haven't tried it yet

 

[Rule3]

Maybe I didn't press hard enough on the handle? I was only loading dummy rounds so maybe. So you would advise me not to load these bullets?

How's the leading in your gun when shooting lead? Berrys has plated bullets which are a bit more but if it saves me clean up time maybe worth it

You clean your guns anyway don't you? Another patch or 2 is no big deal. It's the lube and carbon more than actual lead that gets cleaned out, I do not care for plated bullets in revolvers as you can not put a firm roll crimp on them without cracking through the plating, They are limited to around 1200 fps so not real 357 mag velocities. Lots of people shoot them so just my opinion. Different brass will not change over all length it will vary were the crimp lines up with the cannelure but not to the extent that you numbers showed. That's way different. Talking about a few thousandths like in the picture I posted. The Nickel was trimmed all the same the brass colored just random different headstamps.

You size, then trim then chamfer and deburr,

I don't for any handgun brass. I do for rifle 223 and 308.

 

[kbm6893]

You clean your guns anyway don't you? Another patch or 2 is no big deal. It's the lube and carbon more than actual lead that gets cleaned out, I do not care for plated bullets in revolvers as you can not put a firm roll crimp on them without cracking through the plating, They are limited to around 1200 fps so not real 357 mag velocities. Lots of people shoot them so just my opinion. Different brass will not change over all length it will vary were the crimp lines up with the cannelure but not to the extent that you numbers showed. That's way different. Talking about a few thousandths like in the picture I posted. The Nickel was trimmed all the same the brass colored just random different headstamps.

You size, then trim then chamfer and deburr,

I don't for any handgun brass. I do for rifle 223 and 308.

I clean them religiously. Have a Lewis lead remover too. Good to know about the plating cracking. I'll stick with lead for revolver and plated for semi auto

You've been a huge help!

 

[walnutred]

A 150gn bullet for the 38 Special may have been one of the earliest alternative bullets available. The Ideal 360271 came out around 1902 as a SWC bullet for the 38 S&W. I can't imagine target shooters who reloaded for their 38 Specials did not run them through their pistols. Until they told Ideal "Hey, we like the weight for target loads but can you make a full wadcutter?" and the 148gn DEWC was born.

 

[Boogsawaste]

Just throwing my .02 in here. If you want to pull apart those dummy rounds you got there a cheap inertia bullet puller can be had it about $15. You'll probably want some kind of puller eventually anyway once you start making some live rounds for those mess ups that I think we all have.

And second, if you keep them for dummy practice rounds, do yourself a favor and paint them or something. You never want to mix up live ammo with fake stuff. Painting the shells red or something will help prevent that.

And lastly, nice work getting the seating thing looking a LOT better than your first pic!

 

[Nevada Ed]

In the world of reloading there are a few bullets that are a mess to handle.........and yes you do need to clean up the dies
after loading these bullets, if possible.

Another quality bullet that shoots well, are the lead Remington bullets but they also have a greasy mess that comes off the bullet and gets all over things.

Since they are so accurate in a lot of weapons, people just put up with it............ I changed to another brand.

 

[kbm6893]

Just throwing my .02 in here. If you want to pull apart those dummy rounds you got there a cheap inertia bullet puller can be had it about $15. You'll probably want some kind of puller eventually anyway once you start making some live rounds for those mess ups that I think we all have.

And second, if you keep them for dummy practice rounds, do yourself a favor and paint them or something. You never want to mix up live ammo with fake stuff. Painting the shells red or something will help prevent that.

And lastly, nice work getting the seating thing looking a LOT better than your first pic!

Already painted them. Both sides so I see them in the speedloader and when they're sitting in the cylinder. I'm a very safe guy!

 

[ironhead7544]

That type of Lee bullet is generally left unsized and then coated with the Lee Alox. Should not really be a problem with 38 Special standard pressure loads. If you get leading the Lewis tool will remove it. Also, you can wrap some material from a Chore Boy all copper scouring pad around a bore brush for a really tight fit in the bore. Easily takes leading out. With that bullet, I would seat it down until the rounded portion of the nose is slightly below the case mouth. Then crimp with the LFC, probably 3/4 turn down. This would prevent the LFC bushing from contacting the bullet and changing the OAL, if that is happening. I prefer bullets with a deep crimp groove that will show you where it needs to be crimped.

Cartridge Over All length will vary between bullets of even the same length. There is a maximum length that is short enough to keep the bullets from coming out the cylinder in a revolver. With standard pressure 38 Special loads this is no problem.

The last loads you showed should be fine if they will fit in the chambers. Your choice of the Lee Factory Crimp die is a good one. It will iron out any round that might be a bit out of specs to allow it to chamber. I use it on all my pistol/revolver loads.

I would recommend joining loaddata.com. It has most manual info and a lot more. Cheaper than buying all the manuals.

Getting started is a bit tricky but you will learn. Handloading is a fun hobby.

 

[Bugkiller99]

KBM
Kudos to you for taking your time on your first reload.

I would suggest a couple of things.

Earlier it was suggested you get a mentor, and or NRA class. If you were to narrow down your location, you may discover one of the forum members is close by. We are a friendly lot, and someone may be willing to give you some help.

I've noted that you have said you favor plated bullets. 38 spl. and cast bullets go together like beer and pizza. I think some of your difficulty is coming from the uncommon bullet you are using. Don't give up on cast bullets just yet. Lot's of online sources for bullets. Try this thread

http://smith-wessonforum.com/reloading/343279-online-bullet-sources.html

Continue to work slowly. Be safe.

 

[kbm6893]

KBM
Kudos to you for taking your time on your first reload.

I would suggest a couple of things.

Earlier it was suggested you get a mentor, and or NRA class. If you were to narrow down your location, you may discover one of the forum members is close by. We are a friendly lot, and someone may be willing to give you some help.

I've noted that you have said you favor plated bullets. 38 spl. and cast bullets go together like beer and pizza. I think some of your difficulty is coming from the uncommon bullet you are using. Don't give up on cast bullets just yet. Lot's of online sources for bullets. Try this thread

http://smith-wessonforum.com/reloading/343279-online-bullet-sources.html

Continue to work slowly. Be safe.

I live in Milford PA. I just ordered 1000 LSWC 158 grain from Missouri Bullets. They have a nice groove and red dot lists data for that exact bullet in their manual so no guessing. Do I have to lube those bullets?

I'm excited to start. Ran a few more practice rounds. Getting much smoother now. Will let you guys know when I make the new rounds!

 

[Rule3]

No lube needed. The waxy blue ring is the lube.

Assuming you have the die bodies set correctly,
You should not have to readjust sizing die or the powder through die (it is the one that flares also)

The seating die BODY should also not need to be adjusted if it is correct now, only the top adjustment knob.

Same with the FCD, just back the top knob out ,then turn it in when you have a new case with seated bullet. Turn till it stops, then back down the (ram) round a little and turn the knob 1/2 to 1 turn to vary the crimp.

Pictures required!

 

[UrsaMajor]

I live in Milford PA. I just ordered 1000 LSWC 158 grain from Missouri Bullets. They have a nice groove and red dot lists data for that exact bullet in their manual so no guessing. Do I have to lube those bullets?



I'm excited to start. Ran a few more practice rounds. Getting much smoother now. Will let you guys know when I make the new rounds!

I am in Warwick, NY. If you want some advice, help or instruction, just PM me.

Jim


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[kbm6893]

I am in Warwick, NY. If you want some advice, help or instruction, just PM me.

Jim


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Will do . I work in Goshen so I know where Warwick is. Thanks.

Kevin

 

[3rdgeargrndrr]

, do yourself a favor and paint them or something. You never want to mix up live ammo with fake stuff. !

Yes. A squib in a revolver will REAALLYY ruin your day/ weekend
Depending on your load do a shake test to ensure there is powder. If this is a slightly compressed load it should still easily be identifiable as its heavier than a dummy
And bring your calipers to a hardware store and find a wooden dowel close to .357" and cut it to the length of your barrel and keep it in your range kit. You will sooner or later know why

kbm

But, I'm one who trims my cases for revolver rounds - don't need to get into that discussion,

"Find the guy who trims pistol brass" is now off my bucket list

 

[jim28080]

The COL then is pretty much meaningless. If it is not the exact bullet than COL will never be the same. As I mentioned somwhere in this thread it will not matter as it's a 38 in a 357 so it will fit. Just stay at or below the MAX SAAMI spec.

Somewhere around 1.460 or so. The max is 1.550 so you should be fine Whatever the crimp in the top groove of that bullet comes to. You picked a tough odd ball bullet to start out with

COAL will matter much more in semi autos more so in small high pressure rounds like 9mm and 40 SW.

That's absolutely correct. The bullet you have is from a Lee TL358-158-2R mold. It was designed to be shot as cast with Lee liquid alox tumble lube. The nominal weight is 158 grains but that varies with the alloy used to cast. Crimping in the top groove is normal.