FMJ .22 LR rounds... for spooks!

[PALADIN85020]

As some of you know I've been doing research on the Remington Nylon 66 line of rifles, which are no longer made and are becoming sought-after collector items. I've found references to suppressed Nylon 66s being used in Vietnam and SE Asia in the '60s and '70s. These were modified by Sionics and issued to the military mostly for clandestine missions - sentry elimination, "snatch operations" and the like. These weapons weighed about 4 pounds and had a "book" range of up to 100 meters. Here's a pic of one of these, later superseded by suppressed Ruger 10/22s.

Full-metal-jacket rounds were specified for these arms, first to assure flawless feeding, and secondly to comply with (not) Geneva Convention but Hague Accord protocols. Until recently, I've been unable to locate any of these rounds - they were hard to get in Vietnam, and are especially rare today. One of my friends is an avid cartridge collector, and was excited to let me know that he had some of these elusive cartridges. I visited him today, and he was kind enough to give me one, which I photographed. The "U" headstamp would indicate manufacture by Remington, which would be natural for the Nylon 66 usage. Again, it's loaded with a FMJ bullet, round nose - no hollow point, not a plated lead type. My friend has chronographed one, and it's in the range of standard-velocity .22 LR rounds.

Here's another shot of that round in the ejection port of a Nylon 66:

I thought you might be interested in seeing what one of these rare U.S. military cartridges looks like!

John

 

[NFrameFred]

A lot of historical artifacts disappear before anyone realizes they are just that - way cool, John. Thanks for posting it.

 

[redlevel]

Velly interesting! Thanks for your informational posts.

 

[deadin]

Finally!! A way to wear out the bore in a .22 RF....

(Neat find!.....)

 

[mkk41]

It was the Hague Accords (not Geneva Convention) that was behind the use of FMJ and while the US generally abides by them , they never signed onto them. Most silenced .22s were used on guard dogs and geese , which are not uniformed combatants.

 

[Alpo]

The FMJ-thing was the Hague. Geneva was prisoners of war and had nothing to do with what type of ammo was allowable. The Hague Conventions, in the Netherlands.

Geneva Convention outlaws soft points - one of the things that everyone knows, and is wrong about.

 

[Alpo]

I see someone who types faster beat me to it.

 

[Straightshooter2]

Thank you John. That's something I had never heard. I appreciate the knowledge.

CW

 

[PALADIN85020]

I stand corrected - Hague, not Geneva. I was vague when I should have been Hague! I corrected the OP - thanks.

John

 

[NFrameFred]

I see someone who types faster beat me to it.

Immediately disproving your previous post !

 

[Gunslinger808]

Another tidbit about Viet Nam era suppressors:
Most didn't have baffles like modern suppressors, instead they used a seires of "wipes" which were usually made of plastic or rubber and wore out after just a few rounds.
These wipes in some cases actually touched the bullet as it passed.

 

[UncleEd]

I wonder what the grain weight is for those jacketed .22s. I'm assuming they'd weigh a bit less than full lead bullets but the velocity was reported as about standard velocity. Perhaps the jacket slowed the round down because of added friction in the barrel.

As an aside, I've read that a high velocity .22 works best with a barrel up to 16 inches; longer and it actually starts to slow down before reaching the muzzle. But the longer barrels are good for precision shooting. This is using a 40-grainer with whatever the usual manufacturer's powder.

 

[Lenny_D]

Thank you all for this info. It's why I come here.

 

[kwill1911]

Paladin,

Can you share the source of the picture/info? Here's a box of the ammo, btw.

Regards,
Kevin Williams

 

[sipowicz]

Very cool...now I have a project for my Apache black 66!

 

[AKtinman]

It will be a few days before I can scan the pertinent pages and post them here, but I will add some info on the M24 ammo from the Army TM 9-1305-200, Small Arms Ammunition. My copy is marked June 1961 on the cover.

"This cartridge is intended for use in caliber .22 long rifle survival weapons and is provided in Air Force survival kits. Its primary purpose is for hunting small game. The components are the same as those described in paragraph 32, except for the bullet, which is jacketed. The cartridge is 0.995 inch long."

Of course, the info in the TM is "general" in nature and there is nothing to prevent the use of the ammo in other than "hunting small game" situations.

 

[PALADIN85020]

Paladin,

Can you share the source of the picture/info? Here's a box of the ammo, btw.

Regards,
Kevin Williams

Great photo of the box! I don't know the source of the rifle's photo; my friend who gave me the round shared it with me. I suspect it was originally from a military manual.

John

 

[310Pilot]

Very interesting, I wasn't aware of the suppressed Nylon 66s (must have been before my time). I always liked the Nylon 66, and wanted one back in the early '60s, I finally ran across a decent one in a pawn shop in Holbrook, Az a couple of years ago, really like the gun. BTW, I did frequently use a Mac-10 in .45 ACP with a Sionics suppressor during my stints in SE Asia back in the early to mid-70s, and I found it quite effective (both the suppressor and the weapon).

 

[CW Spook]

Many years ago I had a friend with what he purported to be a Viet-Nam jungle bring-back High Standard .22 pistol fitted with a can. This ammo should have been just the ticket for that gun.

 

[dirty gary]

I've got a lot of weird ammo in my cartridge collection, and somewhere I have some of those FMJ rounds. Problem is finding it since my shop is a full blown disaster area when it comes to finding things.

 

[storeyteller]

Interesting. Thanks for the post.

 

[MP22]

Owned on of those Nylon 66 years ago....wish I still had it. Great little squirrel gun.

 

[AKtinman]

TM pages...

 

[LVSteve]

I wonder why they were jacketed rather than just copper washed?

 

[guy22]

As some of you know I've been doing research on the Remington Nylon 66 line of rifles, which are no longer made and are becoming sought-after collector items. I've found references to suppressed Nylon 66s being used in Vietnam and SE Asia in the '60s and '70s. These were modified by Sionics and issued to the military mostly for clandestine missions - sentry elimination, "snatch operations" and the like. These weapons weighed about 4 pounds and had a "book" range of up to 100 meters. Here's a pic of one of these, later superseded by suppressed Ruger 10/22s.

metal-jacket rounds were specified for these arms, first to assure flawless feeding, and secondly to comply with (not) Geneva Convention but Hague Accord protocols. Until recently, I've been unable to locate any of these rounds - they were hard to get in Vietnam, and are especially rare today. One of my friends is an avid cartridge collector, and was excited to let me know that he had some of these elusive cartridges. I visited him today, and he was kind enough to give me one, which I photographed. The "U" headstamp would indicate manufacture by Remington, which would be natural for the Nylon 66 usage. Again, it's loaded with a FMJ bullet, round nose - no hollow point, not a plated lead type. My friend has chronographed one, and it's in the range of standard-velocity .22 LR rounds.

For spooks! The .22lr has a long history as a spook weopen. It is carried with every black ops group. For close up, quiet stuff it can not be beat.
MK1 Rugers in the 1960's were the CIA's main guns.

Guy22

 

[PALADIN85020]

For spooks! The .22lr has a long history as a spook weopen. It is carried with every black ops group. For close up, quiet stuff it can not be beat.

MK1 Rugers in the 1960's were the CIA's main guns.

Guy22

Quite correct. The .22 LR has long been regarded as an optimum "kill" weapon for covert operations.

In my collection is a rare Ruger MkII .22LR pistol made for the Navy SEALs in 1987. It's in blackened stainless steel. The front sight base is a bit narrower than normal. I suspect this is so the gun can accommodate a special twist-on suppressor, using the front sight as the bayonet-type lug. Regular MkIIs would therefore not accept this suppressor, slotted for the narrower front sight. This is from an overrun of the Navy SEAL contract, one of about 50 pistols made but not issued to the SEALS. Very few of these can be found on the collector market today.

John

 

[Martimus]

Nylon 66's rock! My first rifle was a Remington Nylon 66. Matter of fact I still own that rifle...

I would think that the suppressed version of the Nylon 66 would be blast to shoot...

 

[AKtinman]

While I think of a "spook's" use of a .22 LR would be up close and personal, I find it interesting to compare the specifications of the M24 cartridge with the "standard" .22 LR ammo.

Paragraph 35 concerning the .22 LR Match ammunition specifies that the accuracy at 100 yards is not greater than 2.5 inches extreme spread whereas the specification in Paragraph 32 for commercial .22 LR is 2.2 inches at 100 yards.

The M24 was held to 1.25 inches at 100 yards.

It seems odd that the M24 is held to a higher standard than .22 LR Match ammo.

 

[carpriver]

I feel

so much smarted just my reading this thread. I am going to have an IQ test to see if I got smarter.

 

[Faulkner]

Quite correct. The .22 LR has long been regarded as an optimum "kill" weapon for covert operations.

In my collection is a rare Ruger MkII .22LR pistol made for the Navy SEALs in 1987. It's in blackened stainless steel. The front sight base is a bit narrower than normal. I suspect this is so the gun can accommodate a special twist-on suppressor, using the front sight as the bayonet-type lug. Regular MkIIs would therefore not accept this suppressor, slotted for the narrower front sight. This is from an overrun of the Navy SEAL contract, one of about 50 pistols made but not issued to the SEALS. Very few of these can be found on the collector market today.

John

Very similar indeed to my MKII. I like the blackened stainless steel finish on the SEAL model.