It's my first post so be nice.......not to wade into too much of a quagmire I am looking at a wheelgun for simplicity. My wife target shot a Ruger .44 mag with a light mag load-and was OK with it. But I downloaded Federal's catalog and was looking at the hydro-shock's muzzle energy. The foot pounds for the .357 were right in there at 574 with a little more than all the usual suspects (.45 ACP, .40 S&W). The .44 mag was 780 (a lo recoil option was not offered in .44 mag). My wife's hand will handle a N frame (more mass so lower recoil) so I am considering a 28-2 or a 29-2 with a six inch barrel. I haven't shot a full up .44 mag myself-how much recoil difference is there with a N frame? I also have a HK compact .40 S&W or I could get a .45 auto full size five inch barrel. What do you guys think I should start schooling the wife with-am I going up the right tree?
For home defense .357, .44mag or ?
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It's my first post so be nice.......not to wade into too much of a quagmire I am looking at a wheelgun for simplicity. My wife target shot a Ruger .44 mag with a light mag load-and was OK with it. But I downloaded Federal's catalog and was looking at the hydro-shock's muzzle energy. The foot pounds for the .357 were right in there at 574 with a little more than all the usual suspects (.45 ACP, .40 S&W). The .44 mag was 780 (a lo recoil option was not offered in .44 mag). My wife's hand will handle a N frame (more mass so lower recoil) so I am considering a 28-2 or a 29-2 with a six inch barrel. I haven't shot a full up .44 mag myself-how much recoil difference is there with a N frame? I also have a HK compact .40 S&W or I could get a .45 auto full size five inch barrel. What do you guys think I should start schooling the wife with-am I going up the right tree?
SJshooter
Member
Personally, I don't want anything bigger than .38 in my home defense.
I base that on the fact that I live in California, the homes are made of drywall, my neighbors walls are about 15 feet from mine on both sides and if I shoot and miss the last thing I want is a .357 with enough power to go ripping through the next house.
I also don't want to be blinded by the muzzle blast on my first shot (assuming an encounter is more likely to happen at night, in the dark) or deafened by the report of a full .357 indoors with no hearing protection. I understand that if I am dead I won't get a chance to complain about the ringing in my ears, but still it just seems like a lot of report given my home.
Finally, and perhaps most importantly, I can personally handle a .38 much better and if you want me to put three shots in a tight group really fast I have a much better chance with .38 than with the recoil-producing .357... especially in a situation where adrenaline might be flowing.
Plenty of law enforcement relied on stout .38 special for years, and they did just fine. At the end of the day, in any home defense situation the most important thing is going to be a) having a plan that you know and have rehearsed and b) shot placement. If I have a plan and shot placement, I'll probably be okay with .22. Everyone would want more than .22 to protect themselves given a choice, but I'll take a .22, shot placement and a plan over .44, no plan, and less than 100% reliability in hitting my target under adverse conditions/weird shooting posture.
I base that on the fact that I live in California, the homes are made of drywall, my neighbors walls are about 15 feet from mine on both sides and if I shoot and miss the last thing I want is a .357 with enough power to go ripping through the next house.
I also don't want to be blinded by the muzzle blast on my first shot (assuming an encounter is more likely to happen at night, in the dark) or deafened by the report of a full .357 indoors with no hearing protection. I understand that if I am dead I won't get a chance to complain about the ringing in my ears, but still it just seems like a lot of report given my home.
Finally, and perhaps most importantly, I can personally handle a .38 much better and if you want me to put three shots in a tight group really fast I have a much better chance with .38 than with the recoil-producing .357... especially in a situation where adrenaline might be flowing.
Plenty of law enforcement relied on stout .38 special for years, and they did just fine. At the end of the day, in any home defense situation the most important thing is going to be a) having a plan that you know and have rehearsed and b) shot placement. If I have a plan and shot placement, I'll probably be okay with .22. Everyone would want more than .22 to protect themselves given a choice, but I'll take a .22, shot placement and a plan over .44, no plan, and less than 100% reliability in hitting my target under adverse conditions/weird shooting posture.
DJINCO
US Veteran
Let your wife pick the gun she uses.
Care to guess how many Rugers I have in my home?
Yep, one. That is what my wife likes.
Remember that practicing with a target load in a revolver is a much different experience than a full-power defensive load.
I just came from the range shooting a model 60 with full power 357 silvertips made switching to the 625 feel like the 45ACP was a .22.
What ever your wife chooses, shoot it alot to get used to the recoil.
Oh yea, get a crimson trace laser grip also.
Care to guess how many Rugers I have in my home?
Yep, one. That is what my wife likes.
Remember that practicing with a target load in a revolver is a much different experience than a full-power defensive load.
I just came from the range shooting a model 60 with full power 357 silvertips made switching to the 625 feel like the 45ACP was a .22.
What ever your wife chooses, shoot it alot to get used to the recoil.
Oh yea, get a crimson trace laser grip also.
HOUSTON RICK
Member
I am no firefight veteran, but I cannot imagine that there is much difference in terminal ballistics for two legged varmints between 357 mag and 44 Mag. I know that I can handle 357 a lot better than 44. If you are defending from cape buffalo or rhinocerus, then go with the 44.
You might want to consider getting the Model 29 but loading it with .44 Specials for home defense. Shooting the Specials in a heavy revolver like a 6-inch Model 29 is great, very low recoil and muzzle blast.The .44 Special is an excellent self-defense round with the proper load. I have a .357 Magnum and I love it, but I think its too much gun for a home defense situation. My home protector is a 6-inch model 29 loaded with Silvertip .44 Specials. I sleep well at night.
Let her have whatever she likes. Either magnum caliber should have plenty of energy for defensive needs but the gun which fits her better will help dramatically with shot placement and confidence. All the energy in the world won't help one bit if she cannot hit the target.
If your wife is partial to the N-frame (and who could blame her) a 629 loaded with .44 special loads would be a tempting combination. A model 28 would also be a nice option.
For strictly home defense, you might consider a shotgun. A side-by-side coach gun is about as simple as it gets and has all the power (in 12 or 20 gauge) you would need.
Just a suggestion here... let your wife take a professional shooting course on her own to get started. I do a little teaching and often observe spouses becoming very nervous when their respective spouse is watching. When separated, it is not unusual to see immediate improvement. Learning to shoot can be a little stressful for some people. Not wanting to screw up in front of your spouse might cause unnecessary stress on a brand new shooter. Just a thought.
Whatever the case, count yourself lucky that your wife is willing to go shooting with you.
If your wife is partial to the N-frame (and who could blame her) a 629 loaded with .44 special loads would be a tempting combination. A model 28 would also be a nice option.
For strictly home defense, you might consider a shotgun. A side-by-side coach gun is about as simple as it gets and has all the power (in 12 or 20 gauge) you would need.
Just a suggestion here... let your wife take a professional shooting course on her own to get started. I do a little teaching and often observe spouses becoming very nervous when their respective spouse is watching. When separated, it is not unusual to see immediate improvement. Learning to shoot can be a little stressful for some people. Not wanting to screw up in front of your spouse might cause unnecessary stress on a brand new shooter. Just a thought.
Whatever the case, count yourself lucky that your wife is willing to go shooting with you.
1st you need to worry about over penetration. If a bullet leaves your property you could be looking at criminal charges. Even if no one is hurt. Also you could hurt or kill a member of your family in another room.
2nd check with your insurance policy. Some homeowner policies have legal wording limiting coverage if the firearm "is not reasonable for the location".
3rd from a LEO and SAO position if you had to use the gun a 44 magnum will get you noticed. Most SAOs I work with would investigate you in more detail that someone who used a 38.
I know of a local case where a individual lost his Firearms Owners Card because he held the burgler with a 454. It took him 2 years of legal work to get his gun rights back and he never fired a shot.
I personally keep a S&W 38 with Glasser as a house gun. I tested my duty Glock 23 with Department ammo at an old house same construction as mine and over penetration was a problem.
I recommend to anyone if you cannot test your load on a house that is to be demolished build a section of an outside wall identical to yours and test for penetration.
2nd check with your insurance policy. Some homeowner policies have legal wording limiting coverage if the firearm "is not reasonable for the location".
3rd from a LEO and SAO position if you had to use the gun a 44 magnum will get you noticed. Most SAOs I work with would investigate you in more detail that someone who used a 38.
I know of a local case where a individual lost his Firearms Owners Card because he held the burgler with a 454. It took him 2 years of legal work to get his gun rights back and he never fired a shot.
I personally keep a S&W 38 with Glasser as a house gun. I tested my duty Glock 23 with Department ammo at an old house same construction as mine and over penetration was a problem.
I recommend to anyone if you cannot test your load on a house that is to be demolished build a section of an outside wall identical to yours and test for penetration.
YeshuaIsa53
Member
Both S&Ws you chose are great and versatile enough to shoot several loads. Find a friend that has one of each and will let her shoot them with different loads. Post the results on her choice and welcome.
Training with the 28-2 and .38 rounds may be her choice should I have to guess.
Training with the 28-2 and .38 rounds may be her choice should I have to guess.
Wyatt Earp
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Where do you live?
Again where DO you live? What is this Firearm Owners Card of which you speak?
I'd rather deal with overpenetration potential than with underperformace on target.
No need. Already done here: The Box O' Truth.
Wyatt Earp
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Sky Pilot, I strongly urge you to ignore all energy numbers in ammo selection. They mean nothing to the fight stopping ability of ammunition.
I would stay away from .44 Magnum ammo completely. If your wife likes a big bore revolver, a .44 Magnum will chamber .44 S&W Special and that is the way to go in that caliber. Or get her a Model 625 (N frame in .45 ACP).
I would stay away from .44 Magnum ammo completely. If your wife likes a big bore revolver, a .44 Magnum will chamber .44 S&W Special and that is the way to go in that caliber. Or get her a Model 625 (N frame in .45 ACP).
I live in Arizona. As I read and think about it having her shoot them and decide is the best choice. Were I deciding the 28-2 and 29-2 look like my best options. Probably the 28 first choice since Federal doesn't make .44 Hydra-Shoks in anything but mag and not even low recoil in .44. (I Googled Federal and got their website for the info.) I don't have reloading capability-is there another mfg I should consider or are Federal Hydra-Shoks the best option? And thank you for the info-the box of truth website was eye opening. SP
P.S. I kinda like the .44 mag option too for going out and plinking (feeling power is good) but I am not a hunter type so stopping the charging bull moose isn't exactly in the equation.........
P.S. I kinda like the .44 mag option too for going out and plinking (feeling power is good) but I am not a hunter type so stopping the charging bull moose isn't exactly in the equation.........
user
Member
I use kinetic energy coefficients as a baseline criterion for minimum selections. My rule is if the round doesn't have enough oomph to break human bone at fifty yards, it's not powerful enough. That's at least 232 foot-pounds at that distance. My reasoning is that if it's powerful enough to do that, it's going to be suitable at the usual defensive ranges.
So your average 9mm or .38 +P is going to be just dandy in the bedroom. You can add a lot to that power by having your wife learn to aim whatever you end up with well and giving her basic lessons in human anatomy. But a larger hole in the target isn't going to add much except more flash-bang and recoil. And a .357 magnum or bigger will make a bang that will result in permanent hearing loss from one shot.
I've got .357's and .44's, but those are for the woods and for killing paper at the range, not for home or routine carry defense. My wife loves her S&W model 67 .38 revolver.
So your average 9mm or .38 +P is going to be just dandy in the bedroom. You can add a lot to that power by having your wife learn to aim whatever you end up with well and giving her basic lessons in human anatomy. But a larger hole in the target isn't going to add much except more flash-bang and recoil. And a .357 magnum or bigger will make a bang that will result in permanent hearing loss from one shot.
I've got .357's and .44's, but those are for the woods and for killing paper at the range, not for home or routine carry defense. My wife loves her S&W model 67 .38 revolver.
SuperMan
Member
If she likes the .44 Magnum N-Frame size gun you may want to look at the Speer 200 grain .44 Magnum Gold Dot HP Short Barrel load. Runs a VERY deep HP made for the .44 Special at 1080 fps. Recoil is modest and expansion is much better than the same bullet out of their .44 Special load. A friend of mine was carrying a M21 but gave it up in favor of a 3" M629 PC Ported gun as all the .44 Special loads he tried didn't expand.
Others to consider would be a .45 ACP like a 22, 325, 625 or Mountain Gun if you can find one.
Your wife may find shooting a big bore .44/.45 more pleasant than shooting a .357.
Find a N-Frame with a round butt as there are a larger selection of grips...
Bob Makowski
Others to consider would be a .45 ACP like a 22, 325, 625 or Mountain Gun if you can find one.
Your wife may find shooting a big bore .44/.45 more pleasant than shooting a .357.
Find a N-Frame with a round butt as there are a larger selection of grips...
Bob Makowski
Texas Star
US Veteran
Frankly, I'd suggest a Model 64 or 65 and lead HP Plus P .38 ammo. When I can't find that, my home defense guns are loaded with Speer 125 grain Gold Dot or Federal 129 grain Hydra-Shok ammo. If I could ever locate any, the fairly new Speer 135 grain (not 125 grain) Short Barrel load w0uld be very desirable. See out Ammunition section for details.
If you want to use the gun in the field, camping trips maybe, you can get a .357 and load Magnum rounds when you feel better with them.
For home use, the blast and flash of a typical .357 load is too much, and as noted by others, the penetration may be excessive. That's especially so if you live in an apartment.
Keep in mind that she may have to hold the gun ready for some time, and will need to be able to retain it if someone tries to grab it. The size and wreight of an N-frame do not lend itself to this in the hands of most women. Range shooting is a different string of fish.
Be sure to pick something that each of you can learn to point naturally, and which has reasonable recoil.
Wyatt Earp-
If Luis has Firearm Owner ID cards and the attitude that he mentioned, he may well be in the People's Republic of Illinois, home to political corruption on an epic scale.
Or, in Australia or some Latin American country or Spain, given his name.
Remember, home defense guns should look like something the cops expect to see a normal citizen use. A .44 Magnum shouts "cowboy" to them, and triggers their anti-gun instincts. Especially if it's something bigger than THEY can carry.
If you want to use the gun in the field, camping trips maybe, you can get a .357 and load Magnum rounds when you feel better with them.
For home use, the blast and flash of a typical .357 load is too much, and as noted by others, the penetration may be excessive. That's especially so if you live in an apartment.
Keep in mind that she may have to hold the gun ready for some time, and will need to be able to retain it if someone tries to grab it. The size and wreight of an N-frame do not lend itself to this in the hands of most women. Range shooting is a different string of fish.
Be sure to pick something that each of you can learn to point naturally, and which has reasonable recoil.
Wyatt Earp-
If Luis has Firearm Owner ID cards and the attitude that he mentioned, he may well be in the People's Republic of Illinois, home to political corruption on an epic scale.
Or, in Australia or some Latin American country or Spain, given his name.
Remember, home defense guns should look like something the cops expect to see a normal citizen use. A .44 Magnum shouts "cowboy" to them, and triggers their anti-gun instincts. Especially if it's something bigger than THEY can carry.
Nicksterdemus
Member
357 is readily available and not too expensive, as a rule. Load a couple of heavy, lead 38 specials in SWC first so you might not go deaf if you actually have to shoot inside a structure. You can always back those up w/+P &/or the magnum...
Skypilot - From what you say, a 44 Magnum really makes no sense. If you both would like to have one just for the pleasure of owning it, that is one thing, and sure, go ahead and buy one. A 44 can be used with reduced loads and it is fun to shoot with them, but that is not really its job. In terms of using it for protection at home, I would certainly choose something else.
It is awfully hard to beat a plain-jane Model 10 or Model 15 for the purpose described, and the gun and ammunition will likely cost you half of what a 44 Magnum costs to purchase and feed. For the sake of your hearing alone, I would avoid a high-pressure or magnum round, if you might have to fire it indoors. JMHO.
It is awfully hard to beat a plain-jane Model 10 or Model 15 for the purpose described, and the gun and ammunition will likely cost you half of what a 44 Magnum costs to purchase and feed. For the sake of your hearing alone, I would avoid a high-pressure or magnum round, if you might have to fire it indoors. JMHO.
crofoot629
Absent Comrade
If cost is not an issue, I'd rather have a .44 mag with .44 specials then a .357.
Yea, it's a big ol can of worms you opened.
Emory
Yea, it's a big ol can of worms you opened.
Emory
Snapping Twig
Member
44 special for sure.
My personal choice is .45acp, very similar to .44 special.
My personal choice is .45acp, very similar to .44 special.
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