For Sale By Owner...

Havig been a commercial real estate broker and being married to a former residential broker. We both decided that to sell out house we would list with the largest brokerage firm in town.

DISASTER!,,,Do not know why? They sat on the house for six month, got NO offers, etc.

We took it back. Re-cleaned it up, had OPEN HOUSE every Sunday from 2 to 5, HAD 97 people through in 35 days, SOLD IT.

Yes, we know the ins and outs of the business. YOU can definitely sell it FSBO. It just takes work and some real estage agents are not willing to put in the extra effort it takes. And; I might add others are not creative at ALL!

A small ad that will work wonders goes like this"

"Out of town owner liquidating property in XXXXX. Drive by xxxxxx or call XXXXX."

An honest ad as we have moved to another small town close by.

EVERYBODY now-a-days is looking for a bargain!

You have receivd a lot of good info...go through it...try it...You can be SUCCESSFUL!.

Good Luck,
 
Thanks for the advise y'all. I have no illusions that it would be easy, or even worth it. The thing is that I have already had an offer to buy the house just by having a conversation with a neighbor. Then others kept telling me that I should just sell it myself if they can get a pre-qualification letter. I'm still looking into it. I owe very little on the house and I have considered just keeping it, but if I could sell it for the going price for homes that don't even have any of the custom upgrades that I have made, I would be more than happy to do so.

I have to clear something up though, I worded my first post poorly. I'm not all that unhappy with the Realtor that I have at the moment. It is just that she kept making light of issues that I have had with the wording of addendums and other actions of the bank that owns the house we would like to buy. I fully understand that she was just doing her job (trying to get a paycheck), but I got tired of hearing that "this is just how the banks do business". If that is the way banks do business then it isn't any wonder that many of them have their hands out for our money to bail their idiot asses out.
 
Here's two little hints. Come closer-closer-OK now pay attention.
DO NOT OWNER FINANCE ANY PART OF THE PURCHASE PRICE
OK now for the second hint.
<span class="ev_code_RED">DO NOT OWNER FINANCE ANY PART OF THE PURCHASE PRICE</span>
That mistake is like divorcing your spouse with the provision that you will take her/him back if (or most likely when) the second marriage doesn't work out.
Trust the old Caje on this one-I've made some substantial fees on fixing up messes caused by owner financing-Think about it-if the schmuck can't qualify for bank financing-what makes you thing he will do better paying you?????
 
Originally posted by straightshooter1:
One realtor wanted 6%, which is the "standard" in this area of Florida. Another realtor offered to handle it for 4%.

Two things to consider. First, when you list a house at a reduced commission, that means that the listing (selling) agent takes 2% and the buyer's agent takes two percent. Each agent must also split that commission with their sponsoring broker.

So what happens is that, let's say you list your house and the agent agrees you'll only pay 4% commission. Your house is listed on the MultiList for your area.

Another realtor across town has a client who wants a house. He plugs in the criteria and 100 houses come up. He begins scrutinizing the details on the 100 houses and notices that 99 of them offer him a 3% commission but yours offers him only 2%. (The realtor gets to see information nobody else sees.)

The first thing he's going to do is eliminate your home from consideration.

The other thing to consider about the OP's situation is that we're in a really slow market. "For Sale By Owner" is a really bad way to go in such a market, unless you have all the time in the world and don't care whether or not you actually sell the home.

With FISBO you put a sign in the yard and maybe an ad in the paper. Neither is a particularly reliable method of marketing.

With a realtor, you'll get a sign, a full page spread in your area's multilist, open houses (broker's open and then a public open), ads in your local paper, etc.
 
Being close to all the Tidewater VA military bases, our realtor put us in the military housing classifieds, and the people who bought our house are Navy people who had moved up from Texas. Try that route because this is the time of year the military people are moved around.
 
I have sold a couple of houses FSBO and had good results. I must caution you that I worked in the Title Insurance business for 18 years and have a pretty good working knowledge of the real estate industry which helped a lot. If you don't have a working knowledge of the industry I recommend hiring an agent.

A couple of thoughts: The myth that the seller pays the commission is nonsense. All commissions and fees are wrapped up in the deal and the only person putting money in is the buyer. When I sold my last house the buyers came to me and said how much? I told them if they had a Realtor it would be $618K, if not $600K. They decided they really didn't need one. I took his check and offer to purchase to the Title company and opened escrow. The escrow/title folks took care of everything from that point forward. Thirty days later they had their new home and $18k to play with.

If your home is more than ten years old, mine was, here are a couple of tips to help you sell:
Fresh paint inside and out is just about the best investment you can make, not much money but big eye appeal. I had an electrician go through the house and replace every switch and outlet, upgraded to GFI's in the kitchen and baths - this was a couple of hundred bucks well spent. Had the plumbing updated as well. New toilets, valves, faucets, and water heater.

Like the old saying "You never get a second chance to make a first impression". A new front door, or least hardware, mailbox, house numbers etc., can add a lot to the first impression for not much money. Clean up the landscaping throughout the property but especially at the front door.

Have a home inspection done before you try to sell. That way you will know what needs to be fixed. Whatever they find, fix it first. A home warranty impresses buyers and doesn't cost much (because they really don't cover much). All of the above don't add up to much money but when done your house will stand out above the competition that hasn't. Good luck!
 
Originally posted by Capt Steve:
I told them if they had a Realtor it would be $618K, if not $600K.

Realtors often won't take a listing unless it is an exclusive right to sell, which means that it doesn't make any difference who actually sells the house, the realtor is going to get his commission.

It's not a myth re the seller paying the commission. It's semantics. The commissions come out of the purchase price at closing. Joe Seller gets $100,000 for his house w/6% commission, he's going to get $94,000, right?

The commission comes out of his proceeds. The buyer pays the same, regardless.
 
tom, you may have a point about a realtor who eliminates the house that will only give him 2%.

But there are sooooo many hungry realtors in my area of Florida that they don't really have an option in this economy. They need the 2% or more to live.

As to the seller paying the commission, that's true, but it is semantics, isn't it. If I need 100k for my house and I know 6% is going for a commission to a realtor, don't I just insist on 106K as the bottom sales price?

I still get my 100k =/-, the realtor get his 6% and the only one who pays the commission is really the buyer.

I actually used a realtor in my last sale. She immediately offered to reduce her commission and actually had a buyer who wanted the house. I simply set my bottom line high enough to cover the commission and the buyer "gladly" paid the price. I still got what I wanted, she got what she asked and the buyer paid more than he would have if I'd had time (cases at work were a problem at the moment) to do the FSBO.

Bob
 
I think everyone but me became a realtor when they retired to FL. As straightshooter says they are very thick on the ground here.
Most places are not Malibu and do not need celebrity agents and there are quite a few competent people glad to get the business. In the current real estate market, I don't think it is unreasonable for a Realtor to work for less. Further, it's not a given around here that some other realtor will sell your listing, you are going to hustle to sell it yourself.

Dependent upon circumstances either the buyer or seller might be said to have paid the commission in economic terms, certainly the value of the home is reduced by the commission in all but the eyes of the tax assessor.
 
Originally posted by straightshooter1:
If I need 100k for my house and I know 6% is going for a commission to a realtor, don't I just insist on 106K as the bottom sales price?

If the house appraises for $100K, your buyer isn't going to get a loan for $106K.

And it's more than semantics. For example, a seller lists a house for $100K. That's what the house is worth. Mr. Buyer pays $100 K. He pays $100K no matter what the commission rate is.

At closing, the seller isn't going to get $100K. He's going to get $100K minus the commission. If it's 6%, then Seller gets $94K.

The seller pays the commission. The buyer pays the same regardless the commission rate.
 
Originally posted by oldRoger:
Further, it's not a given around here that some other realtor will sell your listing, you are going to hustle to sell it yourself.

False. A competent realtor will ensure the house is listed on every available internet real estate site. He'll provide staging. He'll host and advertise open houses (both broker's and public). He'll see that the photographs are taken in a timely and professional fashion. He'll provide advertising in hard copy.

And as to whether or not a property will sell depends upon price re the local and current market. Any property that won't move is simply priced too high for the current conditions. The best/most aggressive realtor on earth can't move a property that the owner thinks is worth more than it's worth.

Dependent upon circumstances either the buyer or seller might be said to have paid the commission in economic terms, certainly the value of the home is reduced by the commission in all but the eyes of the tax assessor.

Also false.

a seller lists a house for $100K. That's what the house is worth. Mr. Buyer pays $100 K. He pays $100K no matter what the commission rate is.

At closing, the seller isn't going to get $100K. He's going to get $100K minus the commission. If it's 6%, then Seller gets $94K.

The seller pays the commission. The buyer pays the same regardless the commission rate.
 
A house is only "worth" what a buyer is willing to pay for it, regardless of the listing price. The only person putting money into a sale is the buyer and thus the buyer is paying the commission. Not semantics, just fact. What the seller is willings to accept is up to them

The sale of my house was a good illustration. If the buyers had felt the need to be represented by an agent (which would have been OK with me), who presumably would demand a 3% commission I was not going to pay it, they were. Getting paid $18K for a couple of trips to the title company is ridiculous and no amount of professional representation would have lowered by bottom line price.

Many folks need the professional representation of a Realtor but happily, some of us do not.
 
Originally posted by parallel:
... has anyone here ever put a house up for sale by owner? If so, did it sell? Are there any pitfalls to look out for? Is there any special process?

It looks as though I have a deal on the bigger house that we made an offer on, I am not exactly pleased with my Realtor's performance and therefore I will likely find another to list my current home. I have had several people tell me that I should sell my house for sale by owner, but none of those people had any experience doing so. School me on this if for no other reason that to make an informed decision.

Parallel:

I have personally bought one and sold two w/o a realtor.

It is so very easy. In fact, for the last sale I didn't spend a dime...period. Told the buyers to draw up the sales contract (via their attorney...their cost) and bring it to me with the sales price we agreed upon. They even incorporated a clause (pert my request) that I was NOT to pay any closing costs at settlement...even thosecustomarily paid by the seller.

No problems whatsover.

Be safe.
 
Originally posted by The Big D:

Told the buyers to draw up the sales contract (via their attorney...their cost) and bring it to me with the sales price we agreed upon.

Not since the real estate market "adjusted," you haven't.

Back during the bubble, sure. If you were in an inflationary market/area of the country, you could simply list it in the paper and before the day ended, you'd have several bids.

House selling is way different now.
 
"DO NOT OWNER FINANCE ANY PART OF THE PURCHASE PRICE
OK now for the second hint.
DO NOT OWNER FINANCE ANY PART OF THE PURCHASE PRICE"

Gee, that's not the advice I got from "Choctaw Bingo" by James McMurtry.

If you haven't heard it, give it a listen, I think you'd like it CL.
 
Tom, I just don't know where to start.

I am not suggesting I am an expert in real estate sales transactions, but I have owned businesses, have dealt with the professionals involved, from realtors to appraisers to the bank personnel and have investigated and prosecuted all sorts of real estate scams from the apartment conversions to condos scams of the 80s through the various schemes to get loans to buy, buy, buy in the last decade of the 90s and first four to five years of this century.

You say that if a property appraises at 100K....

You must know that, when a lending institution is involved in making a loan for real property, they won't make the loan unless the appraisal indicates the property is worth at least as much as the money they are loaning at a minimum.

You also must know that the "bank" sends an appraiser out to look at the property and provide an appraisal. The "bank" selects the appraiser and, generally, uses the same one or same firm time after time.

Now, again, consider this. If this appraiser routinely provides appraisals which are less than the money to be loaned resulting in a denial of the credit to the buyer, what would happen?

The "bank" gets a new appraiser. Why? Because the bank is there to loan money and if it doesn't, it has a problem.

Haven't you noticed that (1) realtors are rarely worried about the appraisal, (2) the appraisers are ALWAYS given the sales price of the property and (3) in ALMOST every case, the appraisal comes in at just a bit more than the sales price?

Could it be that the appraisers, except in some rare, egregious case, know their bread and butter is connected to insuring they don't kill the deal?

I have talked with and taken sworn testimony from many lenders, appraisers and realtors and all of them confirm the above statements-that no one wants to kill the deal as long as it is not so lop-sided that the "bank" will be unable to recoup its funds.

I actually had a case in which the appraiser admitted he never got out of his car and couldn't see most of the property he appraised. In a case I handled, an appraiser changed his appraisal upward (he was the rare case of one who didn't know the selling price) when requested to by the buyer (a governmental agency who was trying to justify the high price it was paying another elected official for the property).

I sit here and read post after post about the corruption in law enforcement, the crooked cops, the crooked government, and often think, "You really ain't seen nothing till you look at the way businesses operate."

If businesses were subject to the same scrutiny and open records laws that the government agencies are, you'd be truly amazed.

So, the "bottom line" is that if I have a property that I need 100k in my pocket for, I can easily get an appraisal for 106k to cover the commission.

As a prosecutor, I once needed an honest appraiser. The case dealt with the value of a piece of property and I went through several who refused to appraise it unless I revealed what the sales price had been.

How do they manipulate the appraisals. First of all, they only look at the outside of the property, the area, the comps (sales and values of similar properties in the areas) and, maybe, public records about the property.

In one case involving a piece of undeveloped property, I caught the appraiser justifying the very high appraisal by using as the comps, sales of fully developed lots, with houses in gated communities. That this property was in a flood plain and could not be built upon did not discourage him from "comparing" this lot to those multi-hundreds of thousand dollar homes.

As the introductory song on "Monk" says, "It's a jungle out there...." If one doesn't watch out, he or she can be cheated so easily and so smoothly that the average person never knows what hit them-until they decide to sell the property later.

Now to be fair, I am talking about the TampaBay area. Other areas and other states my have some safeguards we don't have.

If I were a buyer, I would engage my own appraiser, tell him that I wanted an appraisal using true comparable properties and without him knowing the sales price. And, I have done that in my own purchases.

Again, to be fair, I have not been actively involved in this area for some 18 months, just after the "bubble" burst, so it MAY be better for buyers now. Certainly in my area it is truly a buyer's market.

But relying with my wallet on a realtor's or appraiser's integrity ain't gonna happen to me. I may deal with them, but I try to always watch my back and look carefully over their shoulder.

Bob
 
Today, Sunday 5-17, the St, Petersburg Times has a long article on the problems appraisers can cause by being incompetent or crooked.

I tried to post a link, but can't seem to do it with my MAC. Just google the St. Petersburg Times or www.tampabay.com then hit today's paper at the top and you will find it if you are interested.

Bob
 
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