Freedom in the US vs. Britain

[TomkinsSP]

^^^You may teach any of the European Socialist Philosophers, so long as you make it clear that they are wrong.^^^

 

[Chik a Boom]

And not just guns, but freedom to take your child to another medical facility...

 

[venomballistics]

And not just guns, but freedom to take your child to another medical facility...

yes, they do seem to frown upon a custodians interference when deciding the fate of a child of Brittan

 

[gamboolman]

I have been working international oilpatch for 16+ year

Work with lots of Brits....

Many of them go out of there way to attack America and will engage me about why I own guns....

It's been discussed in this thread. Brits are subjects....bow down to their King and Queen. Subjects - not citizens. Accept what the ruler says without question. Expect the government to take care of every problem.

Kinda like America these days...... we have many in our country who want the government to rule their lives in every aspect..... sad just really sad

Brits are different a animule..... I respect that they believe the way they do.

There is a lot of Brits that hate being subjects for sure - but they have been run over by the rest of the ...... the opposing views....

But I will tell you that things go to Hell right dam fast when they push me into a corner about the rights of Americans and Texans in particular to protect themselves and their families....

Honest truth is they are bad butt hurt over us kicking there asszzzz twice and saving it twice.....

 

[mbliss57]

I start my 3rd and final year in England this Friday the 4th of May. The culture difference is accurate IMO. Britain had plenty of guns/ handguns owned by the citizenry until the Dunblane Massacre in 1996 (Much like Port Arthur in Australia). Within a year all handguns were banned except .22 caliber and by 1999 all handguns. This ban went through Parliament with plenty of support from most everyone BECAUSE the citizens of GB have never looked at gun ownership as a right. It was a privilege and by default until the 1980/1990s it was also about aristocratic privilege. Reserved for the rich and their hunting clubs and pistol shooting clubs. When Dunblane happened (our Sandyhook) and the law was changed there was very little if any resistance and people just turned their guns into the police. The same happened in Australia. Today when I talk to most anyone about gun ownership they shake their head in disbelief that the US has the gun culture it does.

On the other hand they are still allowed to own shotguns for hunting and shooting clubs. A friend of mine here has several. So they are not completely gun free.

But my point is the same as several others..it is not in their culture/ DNA to own guns as a right as a citizen.

If you travel the world, you would soon notice the USA is on the far end of any gun ownership spectrum. I don't think there is another country in the world where it's citizens have the right and access to handguns, rifles and shotguns like we do.
We are an exceptional country!

I love our gun laws/ freedoms we have in the 2nd amendment.
We are very unique in this regard. .
I say it again...We are an exceptional country! Be proud to be an American.

 

[NYlakesider]

It's the difference between being a "citizen" and a "subject".

I have always said that the reason we are free and have the freedom mentality and that places like Canada and Australia are still subjects is that we kicked the British out vs. being granted freedom like they were.

And unlike Britain whose "subjects" have no right to self-defense and we do, the reason being the Second Amendment. It gives us both the tools and the right to rise up should the government become corrupt which is why the Brits can't allow self-defense...it would then allow the to rise up against the Monarchy...quite unsporting you know...

Bob

During the fortnight our British boy scouts were staying with us good friendships were made. I met a few including the London cop boss and a teacher and we did a lot of talking over our favorite beverage.

I asked what is the feeling about the US by England as to the fact we were once part of the British Empire. Then we had the big revolution!

Basically the teacher said its about 2 small paragraphs in most history books. He said England has so much history going way back that its not concerned/talked about much at all. Its kind of hard to think that the Brits consider our revolt as a mole hill vs the mountain we consider it!

 

[Kiwi cop]

Having lived overseas for 8 or 9 yrs in various countries, I have found that a lot of the USA is portrayed by our TV shows and perceptions of violence. Folks simply do not realize the size of the USA - just as we don't realize how large Brazil is for instance.
So, a lot of violence is reported as 'in America" and it seems like a lot more to them, then if they compare it to 20 countries. Seriously, how many countries and populations from Europe could you squeeze into the 'size' of the USA? a lot. Compare the entire UK to say Montana - just one state, or apples to apples, a state the same size and same amount of population

AND, in the 90's when I was there, Jerry Springer was a favorite on european television. OMG... I knew people, who knew it wasn't a fair comparison, but they watched it and talked about it

The biggest difference between the US and the rest of the world is that the rest of the world only know about the US from TV and the movies, which portray things as the "intuectual elite", who predominate the industry, think. It gives the rest of the world a distorted view of the US.

 

[Dave_n]

During the fortnight our British boy scouts were staying with us good friendships were made. I met a few including the London cop boss and a teacher and we did a lot of talking over our favorite beverage.

I asked what is the feeling about the US by England as to the fact we were once part of the British Empire. Then we had the big revolution!

Basically the teacher said its about 2 small paragraphs in most history books. He said England has so much history going way back that its not concerned/talked about much at all. Its kind of hard to think that the Brits consider our revolt as a mole hill vs the mountain we consider it!

What is not often realized is that the AR was a relative side show just after the 7 years war. Because the Royal Navy was defeated at the Battle of the Chesapeake Capes by the French Navy, Cornwallis was forced to surrender. Look at the geography of the major battles in the AR. Almost all were in range of a sea shore, so that the RN could pick up troops and carry them "up and away" to where they were next needed. A point not often made in histories of the AR from the US side. Dave_n

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

If you travel the world, you would soon notice the USA is on the far end of any gun ownership spectrum. I don't think there is another country in the world where it's citizens have the right and access to handguns, rifles and shotguns like we do.
We are an exceptional country!

. . .

I am going to go out on a limb here. I don't really know, but I have a feeling that there may be one or two other countries somewhere that allow firearms ownership as much as we do. But I do know that if there are a few, we are not going to hear about them from the bridgebuilding Communist news media in this country.

Switzerland? One of the UAE? Some other place we've never even heard of?

Awaiting illumination.

I say it again...We are an exceptional country! Be proud to be an American.

Worth repeating.

 

[Texas Star]

I am going to go out on a limb here. I don't really know, but I have a feeling that there may be one or two other countries somewhere that allow firearms ownership as much as we do. But I do know that if there are a few, we are not going to hear about them from the bridgebuilding Communist news media in this country.

Switzerland? One of the UAE? Some other place we've never even heard of?

Awaiting illumination.

Worth repeating.

Switzerland, Belgium, South Africa, and the Czech Republic probably come closest and allow at least some concealed handgun carry.

I think Argentina may, and does allow handgun use in combat style matches.

I read somewhere that Serbia allows quite a few guns in private hands. Maybe true?

And the Tribal Lands in Pakistan and Afghanistan are gun country. Neither the British or the Russians were able to change that.

 

[TomkinsSP]

...Basically the teacher said its about 2 small paragraphs in most history books. He said England has so much history going way back that its not concerned/talked about much at all. Its kind of hard to think that the Brits consider our revolt as a mole hill vs the mountain we consider it!

Funny, the Ali/Clay bouts only rate 'about two small paragraphs' in Sonny Liston's autobiography, 'its not concerned/talked about much at all'.

 

[SuperMan]

Texas Star... South Africa has really cracked down on concealed carry over the last few years. I was there in 2001 and it was quite easy to own a handgun...not so a rifle or shotgun... Last I head it has become harder and harder to get a CC license even though violent crime continues to rise...

Bob

 

[jag312]

I read in Pravda several years ago that in Dagestan, ethnic Russians were being given guns to carry because of the Chechen terrorists that were targeting the Russian civilians. In Makhachkala, the capitol of Dagestan, it is supposed to be common to see people in public openly carry a handgun.

 

[Absalom]

.....
And the Tribal Lands in Pakistan and Afghanistan are gun country. Neither the British or the Russians were able to change that.

Well, yes, and so is Somalia and a number of other countries in Africa. But I'm not sure the kind of "freedom" we're talking about here is the one where you're free to carry a gun until someone with more and bigger guns comes along, blows you away, and burns down your village

Which brings up an important point: You can't look at gun ownership in isolation.

American gun ownership is an integral part of an established constitutional order which has survived for almost two-and-a-half centuries. That's what guarantees freedom.

 

[S&WsRsweet]

Well, yes, and so is Somalia and a number of other countries in Africa. But I'm not sure the kind of "freedom" we're talking about here is the one where you're free to carry a gun until someone with more and bigger guns comes along, blows you away, and burns down your village

Which brings up an important point: You can't look at gun ownership in isolation.

American gun ownership is an integral part of an established constitutional order which has survived for almost two-and-a-half centuries. That's what guarantees freedom.

A very well thought out and well written statement Absalom ,our rights of firearm ownership is a constitutionally guaranteed right not a privilige the Brits and others never seem to understand that part of the equation . Too many years under a monarchy type system I guess.

 

[Wise_A]

The biggest difference between the US and the rest of the world is that the rest of the world only know about the US from TV and the movies, which portray things as the "intuectual elite", who predominate the industry, think. It gives the rest of the world a distorted view of the US.

Today when I talk to most anyone about gun ownership they shake their head in disbelief that the US has the gun culture it does.

The problem is that they--like a lot of Americans--don't understand what gun culture really is.

Gun culture isn't about YARR-GUNS or even YARR-FREEDOM. It's about family, tradition, responsibility and safety. That's why I find the whackos that show up at public protests with ARs and AKs slung over their backs so abhorrent. They don't represent me any more than the anti-gunners do.

All the tangential stuff has real value to society, too. That's why the attempt to whitewash guns from American culture--and particularly youth culture--is so damaging. By never allowing kids to be exposed to guns, you never allow them to learn how to be safe with a gun. By making firearms only acceptable in Call of Duty, you teach them that they're only about violently making your problems go away in a consequence-free environment.

Here, check this out:
Boy finds gun in dressing room, mom fires 'to see if it was real'

Kid finds a gun in a dressing room, and--here's the kicker--does exactly the right thing. He leaves it alone, and immediately tells an adult.

The mother, an alleged adult, has no idea what to do with the gun. So she picks it up and pulls the trigger "to see if it's real". No charges filed. I'm guessing they figured that out of a jury of twelve, at least one person would also be too friggin' stupid to reach the level of the "reasonable person".

That's the damage caused when you obliterate gun culture in popular culture. It literally could have killed somebody.

I mean, either that, or the mother was carrying illegally, ND'd, and didn't want to take the heat.

Here's a blog post that sums it up--the idea that gun culture is not only necessary, but superior:
The Abode of McThag: I Really Think So

How do I know the gun culture is superior? I know and am friends with stone killers. People who've killed in the military and sleep soundly at night; but whom own so many guns you'd need a semi to move them all. Yet they've never murdered single person once removed from the military and war.

So, let's try something new. Since guns aren't going away, not even "evil black guns" why don't we inculcate our children into the gun culture and reject the victim culture which has no respect for life or property?

 

[NYlakesider]

What is not often realized is that the AR was a relative side show just after the 7 years war. Because the Royal Navy was defeated at the Battle of the Chesapeake Capes by the French Navy, Cornwallis was forced to surrender. Look at the geography of the major battles in the AR. Almost all were in range of a sea shore, so that the RN could pick up troops and carry them "up and away" to where they were next needed. A point not often made in histories of the AR from the US side. Dave_n

Interesting concept, your right I never though much about British transportation!

Living where I do Saratoga is very close and of course well talked about. Living in the Albany area all my life we have a lot of history made along the Hudson River and a little bit of marching.

 

[Watchdog]

I wonder if 'mum' (or maybe her parents) felt the same way when Adolph, Hermann, Karl, Joseph and Heinrich were planning thier cross-channel holiday ca.1940.

I seriously doubt it. Don't sell the British short. Hitler made that mistake, and it didn't work out well at all for him and his imaginary Thousand Year Reich.

Battle of Britain ring any bells? How about Dunkirk?

Lots of people seem to have forgotten that the British had been fighting the Germans for a year or so while the United States sat on the sidelines, sending war supplies, sure, but trying to avoid the fight and maintain some sort of neutrality. The majority of the American public wanted no part of another war in Europe.

 

[mbliss57]

I am going to go out on a limb here. I don't really know, but I have a feeling that there may be one or two other countries somewhere that allow firearms ownership as much as we do. But I do know that if there are a few, we are not going to hear about them from the bridgebuilding Communist news media in this country.

Switzerland? One of the UAE? Some other place we've never even heard of?

Awaiting illumination.

Worth repeating.

Here is at least one article. The USA is at the top. Look at the list and think about what I was saying about gun culture and the ability to obtain firearms easily, without registration or government issue or approval. (MOST US states) Also in quantity. Many of these countries are not what I would call a gun culture as much as a military militia culture. Switzerland and Israel have an armed citizen soldier society where they are in the Army or Service for a time and then get/ have to keep their weapon at home in case they are needed/ called up. The country that was a big surprise was France.

Countries with the most guns list has some surprises | CBC News

 

[Watchdog]

I'm learning that there are many people who are truly terrified of freedom. Freedom requires taking full responsibility for one's actions, own person, and own security.

If that's the case, does that mean there is no need for laws, law enforcement, or even government? If I'm responsible for my own security, why would I even call the cops? Just handle everything I perceive as a threat to my own security myself.

Individual responsibility for your own actions is all well and good; it's a commendable character trait, but it has to stop short of taking the law into one's hands. My buying a gun is taking responsibility for my own safety and security? And it guarantees my freedom? No, sorry, I disagree with that.

This terrifies many people, and they would rather be slaves to a crown than to take on the responsibility and risks associated with their own liberty.

I'm pretty confident the British don't view themselves as "slaves to a crown". They actually began taking action back in the 1500s to limit the power of the monarchy, and they've pretty much been at it since then. If you know anything about the English system of government, you should know that the monarch really doesn't "rule". The current monarch is really just a ceremonial leader...she's the titular Head of State, but really is not allowed any true political power.

I'd go so far as to suggest that if someone were discussing the British political system with someone from England, and mentioned that they were considered to be some sort of "slave", that person might find himself flat on his back, staring glassy-eyed at the pretty white clouds floating by overhead.

But it is reassuring to know that some people value and cherish their own freedom, like the young man who now owns a Walther P99.

I suppose so, but I doubt the young man bought the gun out of any noble desire to validate his freedom. He wanted a gun, hadn't been able to buy one before, so he bought it. I'm not reassured by everyone who buys a gun, though, no matter what reason they give for buying it. I cherish and place a high value on my own personal freedom, but I view maybe 90% of those freedoms as having nothing to do with my ability to walk into my favorite LGS tomorrow and buy any firearm I wish (which I just may do, by the way).

And please don't tell me that thing about all freedoms and all parts of the Constitution hinge on the Second Amendment. They don't.

All this is just my opinion, you understand. It isn't offered up as facts (except the part about the British monarchy). And this opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it.