Full-Auto Weapons... Tax and stuff

[JJEH]

Guys,

I would like to build a Heckler & Koch G3 full auto in the future. I know there are for sale (or rather the PTR brand things), but only as semi-auto what is a big dislike.

I know if I buy full-auto weapons I have to pay a tax to the ATF.

My question is; how does it work if I buy individual parts, or a parts kit and put it together myself? I don't want to do anything illegal unknowingly...

Thanks for any help.

 

[A10]

I would think that a conversion may put you into the category of a firearms manufacturer, maybe making the weapon manufactured after 1986, which would be an issue. Some of the Class III folks here may know better than I.

 

[JJEH]

Was the G3 ever imported to the U.S.?

 

[GF]

I've had a few "class III" weapons and it's not difficult if you get all the paperwork right.
If you've never done it before, it might be good to find a class three dealer in your area to help with the forms or a knowledgeable individual to look it over before sending it in.

And despite what you might have heard, the BATF has always been helpful and very professional with me when I had paperwork pending.

GF

 

[Oldiron]

To make one from scratch hang it up. Can't do. Closest you can come on something like that is to go through a class III dealer and get a transferable trigger group and put it your gun. I think all new mfg full auto must go to military or law enforcement.
For the prices of the old transferable full auto stuff just get yourself one of the Hellfires, Tribursts or one of the other trigger pressure springs that let you mimic full auto. They are still legal for now and cost a fraction of what you would spend on something registered.
JMHO Larry

 

[JJEH]

I've had a few "class III" weapons and it's not difficult if you get all the paperwork right.
If you've never done it before, it might be good to find a class three dealer in your area to help with the forms or a knowledgeable individual to look it over before sending it in.

And despite what you might have heard, the BATF has always been helpful and very professional with me when I had paperwork pending.

GF

Thank you for your post GF.

If I build or obtain such a weapon or rather parts I have to let them know. Is it that what you are saying?

 

[JJEH]

To make one from scratch hang it up. Can't do. Closest you can come on something like that is to go through a class III dealer and get a transferable trigger group and put it your gun. I think all new mfg full auto must go to military or law enforcement.
For the prices of the old transferable full auto stuff just get yourself one of the Hellfires, Tribursts or one of the other trigger pressure springs that let you mimic full auto. They are still legal for now and cost a fraction of what you would spend on something registered.
JMHO Larry

Thank you Larry.

My thought was to buy a parts kit and convert it to full auto.
Still less expensive than buying an i.e. M-16A1.

Tribursts are ridiculous, don't even understand wy the Military uses them...

 

[m1gunner]

Thank you Larry.

My thought was to buy a parts kit and convert it to full auto.
Still less expensive than buying an i.e. M-16A1.

Tribursts are ridiculous, don't even understand wy the Military uses them...

No Can DO. You are prohibited from making, assembling, or converting any semi-auto firearm to full auto as this can not be done without BATFE approval, and those stopped in 1986. You can not make one then offer to pay the tax to the BATFE, that also stopped in 1986.

If you want full auto, buy a registered (ie -machinegun) lightening link or a registered trigger pack (also considered a machine gun). You will have to pay the going rate for a registered part or whole gun. Binghams are the cheapest entry to the machinegun club at present, IIRC.

 

[JJEH]

No Can DO. You are prohibited from making, assembling, or converting any semi-auto firearm to full auto as this can not be done without BATFE approval, and those stopped in 1986. You can not make one then offer to pay the tax to the BATFE, that also stopped in 1986.

If you want full auto, buy a registered (ie -machinegun) lightening link or a registered trigger pack (also considered a machine gun). You will have to pay the going rate for a registered part or whole gun. Binghams are the cheapest entry to the machinegun club at present, IIRC.

The G3 was produced from '58 to '97, does this make a difference?

 

[Frank237]

JJEH,

Have you ever shot a G-3 on FA?

I've shot the FN/FAL as well as M-14 over the years and on FA they are great noise makers, but very tough to control.

My standard suggestion to anyone wanting to go through the expense and BS of a Class 3 is to TRY whatever you want to buy beforehand. Seems it takes only a dozen mags or so and a person is satisfied with FA.

I go out with a Class 3 friend every few years. I supply the ammo, he brings a few guns. I get my fill in an afternoon and I'm good for a few more years.

FN in MT

 

[Moonman]

JJEH,

The easiest way is to call ATF and Ask!

This subject is not something to take internet answers to heart.

Please consult ATF or a Class III firearms dealer, unless you have

thousands of dollars extra to pay in fines and up to 10 years to spend in the Federal Pen.

The change in the 1986 law made EXISTING and (REGISTERED LEGAL) machine guns become even more valuable.

NO MORE MACHINE GUNS (NEWER) WILL BE ADDED TO THE LEGAL LIST FOR CIVILIAN OWNERSHIP.

There are still Thompson Sub Machine guns out there in some attic from WWII that a soldier brought home,

I would believe them still to be government property, these are NOT LEGAL, along with any foreign machine guns

brought home, if they did not file all the paperwork and have a Federal Tax Stamp for them.

Legally they would have to be turned into AFT upon their discovery by someone.

ATF probably would not prosecute in a case like this, and only confiscate the firearm.

It would still be a POTENTIAL MINE FIELD FOR THE POSSESSOR THOUGH.

I have a Class III dealer friend and we discussed this very Thompson thing this past Tuesday.

 

[JJEH]

JJEH,

Have you ever shot a G-3 on FA?

Yes Sir, it was 4 years my service rifle...

That's why I want one

JJEH,

The easiest way is to call ATF and Ask!

This subject is not something to take internet answers to heart.

Thank you for your reply. You are right, I should call them and make it for sure.

Just thought somebody might have done it in the past.

Thank you all for your participation

 

[blujax01]

A small shop in town is a Class 3 dealer and has several full autos hanging from the ceiling as "Not for sale" and "Sales Samples."
He said that he bought them a long time ago but in 1968 some became not for sale and in 1986 so did some more. It's complicated.

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[Erno86]

I like my Sterling L2A3 semi-auto carbine, in 9 mm, that I bought from J&G Sales out in Arizona; for around $400. If you like it...may I suggest that you can buy a Sterling full auto for around $10,000. It is the most expensive and dependable machine gun ever made. It sports a 32 round magazine --- but do not use Sten magazines in a Sterling --- because it could cause a premature detonation.

My Sterling semi-auto carbine is my current SHTF weapon, besides a 9mm 1911 pistol

 

[jrm53]

Machine gun modifiying

In 1983 or 84 I built a Holmes MP82 from plans, it cost 200 for the tax stamp. After completing the paper work, finger printing, and the Sheriffs office checking me I sent the papers off it seems like it was 2 or 3 months before I got the OK. In 1986, on May 19 they changed the game, you could not build one after that date unless you were a class 3 manufacturer. I have since sold mine through a dealer in Mo. and am glad to be out of it. You could buy a de-milled Sten parts kit and a lazer cut receiever tube but I dont think you could legally assemble it. I have saw gang people on TV in Los Angles with Stens and I know they were not legally obtained. The full auto's are fun to shoot but you had better reload. Jeff

 

[retarmyaviator]

I am a C3 dealer, what you are wanting to do cannot be done legally unless you are a C7 manufacturer.

 

[nipster]

Your best option is to become a class 3 FFL, then you can get so called "engineering samples" that you can posess until you give up your FFL. There are, of course, barriers to entry to going this route. Especially if you are in some gun-unfriendly states.

If you do go the class 3 FFL route, I have been told there is a way to transfer these weapons into your personal collection if you give up your FFL, however I do not know if this is true or not. I dont know anyone who has actually done this.

One thing I do know for certain is you cannot assemble or convert a machine gun out of old parts. Supposedly you can buy (with form 4 and tax stamp) a pre-'86 full auto receiver/trigger group and then build something around it. But you cannot convert or build/register a new (post '86) fully auto weapon.

Fully auto is a realm I would love to jump into, but realistically cant unless I win the lottery or something.

 

[JJEH]

Thanks fellas for all this information. Love this board

I kinda understand why they did what they did. It just sucks for us law-abiding enthusiats and collectors...

I found a dealer who sells full auto weapons and - surprise surprise - they have some G3's for sale... for $28,000.00 and up. Now that is a lil bit too much for my wallet

 

[nipster]

Thanks fellas for all this information. Love this board

I kinda understand why they did what they did. It just sucks for us law-abiding enthusiats and collectors...

I found a dealer who sells full auto weapons and - surprise surprise - they have some G3's for sale... for $28,000.00 and up. Now that is a lil bit too much for my wallet

2 words: BUMP STOCK...

All the fun
A fraction of the price of "the real thing"
0% extra paperwork
100% legal

 

[J Rich]

What nipster said.


I looked into getting a couple of FFLs extensively. I personally don't think it's worth it just to have one gun. You should have a business or be a high end collector to justify the expenses and hassle. For what you want there is NO WAY around it you got to have a FFL.