Funeral expense question

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Anyone in the industry out there?
Was calling to see about buying a double plot for me and the missus and quite frankly got a little pissed-or perhaps I am just "out of the loop". I thought that when you died they put you in a casket dug a hole six feet down put you in and then filled it up. When your spouse died-they repeated the process right next to you.
WRONG!!!
First off they won't let you be buried in the ground as sooner or later the coffin will degrade, collapse and then the body goes. Well Duh-I thought that's how it's supposed to go. Oh no.... First they sell you a "double" then when the first dies, they dig a hole and put in a concrete vault about 6 feet high. Put the first coffin in and then put a concrete floor down and when the next dies they just re open the vault and stack it on top! They then seal the vault again cover it up with dirt and that's it. I asked the guy how much dirt on top of the vault when it's all said and done and he said about a foot!. I told him in no uncertain terms that I did NOT want a vault as it was stupid and he said the cemetary requires it. I asked "why" and he could not come up with an answer. I then asked who sells the vaults? He hemmed and hawed a bit and then said something to the effect that our cemetary has all remains totally encased in Concrete-and I'm thinking what the hell for??? other than somebody is in the concrete business.
So this hole in the ground is supposed to cost $1,440.00 plus $2,550 for a vault plus $1,050 the first time you open it and $1,300 the second time you open it for a total of $3,790 AND THAT'S JUST FOR THE HOLE IN THE GROUND
I asked the guy why they are charging me an opening fee for the first burial since the thing is already open, unless they are gonna go out and put it in and seal it up awaiting the first burial. I then asked why the second time is $250 more expensive that the first time since they don't have to do anything but scrape off 12" of dirt to put in the second body(They don't like it when you say "body"-the preferred term is remains). I've lived my entire life sharing bedrooms with my brothers and then getting married and sharing a bed with my wife. I would think that I can at least spend eternity without being stacked on top (or bottom) like a slice of ham on a sandwich.
This is total cow flop!!!
Or is this how it's done these days? What happened to getting a back hoe, digging a hole 6 feet deep-lowering a nice plain pine box into it and then covering it back up again and let the circle close.

 

[WhiteLightning02]

Gubmint don't want nobody fouling the ground water.

 

[zzzippper]

The stacking is to conserve space. People keep dying. Some places plant you standing up. Now that would really piss me off for all eternity. The vault may have something to do with where you live, water table and all. Things get nasty when there is flooding and all those dearly departed go floating down stream.

 

[Arik]

No concrete here. Just coffin and dirt. Personally I'd rather save everyone the time, money and energy and just toss me in the woods somewhere and be done

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[loutent]

Cremation is my choice - claustrophobia...

 

[speedyquad]

when dad passed 3 years ago, we needed a vault for him. i didn't get to see the breakdown of everything but know the final cost was just over 10 grand and my parents already had their plots paid for. we didn't exaactly get the cheapest of everything, but we didn't get the best either...after all the expensive stuff was going in the ground

 

[BobC357]

It is hard to understand how a cemetery raised its burial cost and blamed it on the cost of living.

 

[Rangerpat]

My will states for me to be cremated and my ashes scattered in the Gulf of Mexico, my son knows where to scatter me... in my favorite fishing spot.
Its a lot cheaper and a happy place he can visit when I'm gone. We spent a lot of time camping and fishing on the barrier island next to the fishing spot.
My first choice was to be strapped into my ladder treestand, facing east at my favorite hunting spot. Let the buzzards do their thing, etc. but the health department frowns on it.

 

[BigBill]

I'm thinking of cremation there is a bill board sign on the highway saying they have a $999 special going on. Why take up space. Then they can put me with my older brother who is alone. We can party and haunt the cemetery together.

 

[Salty RI]

It is hard to understand how a cemetery raised its burial cost and blamed it on the cost of living.

I know, they must be making a ton of money, because everyone is dying to get in.

 

[Steve in Vermont]

I worked PT for a funeral home after retirement. Among the things I learned, every community has different requirements. Some state even for the burial of ashes a concrete vault (albeit small one) is necessary. Others don't require this. Any funeral director can advise the requirements of any cemetery. Cremation is becoming more popular every day. Years ago the Catholic Church did not allow this, now they do, as do most religions (but not all). By law funeral homes must publish a list of services and prices. There is a lot of mark up in this business and there are ways to save money (caskets are a big money maker, but if you're being cremated they can use what is simply a heavy duty cardboard box). And people are now pre-paying for their funerals, the money going into a state certified trust fund. Locks the price in and saves the family an added expense.

 

[timn8er]

It is hard to understand how a cemetery raised its burial cost and blamed it on the cost of living.

I know, they must be making a ton of money, because everyone is dying to get in.

These are prime examples of "gallows humor"!

 

[vytoland]

forget all that funeral home, church service, hole in the ground, casket, mausoleum stuff........when my clock runs down, cremate whats left and spread the remains at my favorite place with the amphibians, butterflies, birds and snakes......peace and happiness forever.....

 

[jeffsmith]

Caj,

Maybe it has to do with the Fact that the state you live in is Mostly Swamp
and the Concrete is Necessary to keep Everyone Buried from Floating Away

 

[shouldazagged]

Cemeteries that require the vault do so because it makes it easier (read "cheaper") to mow graves that haven't sunk. So does the use of ground-level bronze or granite plaque markers rather than headstones.

In 1960, I think, Jessica Mitford published a book called The American Way Of Death. It was very revealing then; and as I recall it, it still would be today. Quite informative about the funeral industry, and disturbing. I found it infuriating.

When we knew my wife only had two or three months to live we planned her funeral together. She insisted on immediate cremation. No embalming, dressing the body in special clothes, or visitation at a funeral home. This was to be followed by a memorial service in the church where we married, and an informal reception afterward for friends and family. Her ashes then were to be scattered on a stretch of the Kentucky River that we had often visited.

All this was done. It's exactly what will be done when I die.

The cremation, eighteen years ago, cost $1100.00. The average funeral today costs at least $6000.00, the last I heard.

 

[bullmack]

Caj,

My Son In Law owns a funeral home, is a licensed mortician, and a licensed funeral Director. His business does not own their own cemetery but he's quite familiar with national requirements. Here are his replies - take them for what they are worth!

Anyone in the industry out there?
Was calling to see about buying a double plot for me and the missus and quite frankly got a little pissed-or perhaps I am just "out of the loop". I thought that when you died they put you in a casket dug a hole six feet down put you in and then filled it up. When your spouse died-they repeated the process right next to you.
WRONG!!!


Nope, he has it correct. Sometimes when you buy a 'double plot' you are buying a double depth grave. This refers to during the first burial, you are digging down 12 feet instead of 6. Then the second burial, you are digging the standard 6 feet. Most often, you are buying side-by-side plots in this case.

He's missing the value of an outer burial container, which I'll address below.

First off they won't let you be buried in the ground as sooner or later the coffin will degrade, collapse and then the body goes. Well Duh-I thought that's how it's supposed to go. Oh no....
It used to be done this way until about the 1920's. What happened is that regardless of what material was used for the casket, six feet of earth pressing down will cause the casket to cave and the grave to sink in. This causes multiple problems not just for when they need to open the grave next to the one that was buried, but also when they need to run their heavy equipment throughout the cemetery to maintain it.

First they sell you a "double" then when the first dies, they dig a hole and put in a concrete vault about 6 feet high. Put the first coffin in and then put a concrete floor down and when the next dies they just re open the vault and stack it on top! They then seal the vault again cover it up with dirt and that's it.
This is not what goes on here locally. We as funeral directors stay to witness the grave being fully closed. We consider it as part of what we are paid to do. Most places do not. They leave as soon as the minister stops.

When the grave is opened, sometimes they are digging as much as 8 feet deep. The extra space allows them to place the bottom portion of the outer burial container. The bottom of the outer burial container is installed and then the cemetery sets up the tent, dressing and trim found at the gravesite. The setup allows the casket to rest above the grave within view of the attendees. At the appropriate time, a switch is flipped and the casket gently lowers to the bottom container already pre-set in the grave. After the tent, dressing and trim are removed, the lid is placed on the outer burial container and then the earth is placed over to close the grave.

Some people refer to this as a vault, but a vault only references a container that can seal. The minimum container required is what I call a grave liner. The lid of the grave liner just sits on top and does not seal. The grave liner also has holes on the bottom to allow water to go in and exit the container. With a vault being sealed, you have to physically break it once its been closed. The level of protection is much greater as well. People 'climb the ladder' of burial vaults when they want more protection. I hear often, "I don't want any gravesite substances to touch him."



I asked the guy how much dirt on top of the vault when it's all said and done and he said about a foot!. I told him in no uncertain terms that I did NOT want a vault as it was stupid and he said the cemetary requires it. I asked "why" and he could not come up with an answer.
If this requirement wasn't widespread, the cost of cemetery plots would be five times or more what they are because maintaining a cemetery would be one of the most capital intensive tasks around. If the grave sinks in, the cemetery can't make that section available for visitors let alone for future interments.

This regulation allows you to look out over the grounds of a cemetery or memorial park and see the grounds for what they are — flat and beautiful, not rutted and bumpy.

I then asked who sells the vaults? He hemmed and hawed a bit and then said something to the effect that our cemetary has all remains totally encased in Concrete-and I'm thinking what the hell for??? other than somebody is in the concrete business.
Whenever you ask questions as to the value of a good or service to someone at the bottom of that company's labor pyramid, you will not get good answers like this guy apparently received.

Funeral Homes and Cemeteries both sell outer burial containers. Funeral Directors have significant regulations by the FTC about vaults and how we display and price them. Cemeteries have no such federal regulation of any sort. We sell a grave liner for $495 and our most expensive vault is $12995. You can pick whatever you want. It's a requirement, so if you don't like the requirement the cemetery has every right to say "go bury somewhere else then".

In Louisiana especially, the water table is quite low and you have a hard time burying at all. In New Orleans, you can't bury at all; everything is done in an above ground mausoleum.


So this hole in the ground is supposed to cost $1,440.00 plus $2,550 for a vault plus $1,050 the first time you open it and $1,300 the second time you open it for a total of $3,790 AND THAT'S JUST FOR THE HOLE IN THE GROUND

I asked the guy why they are charging me an opening fee for the first burial since the thing is already open, unless they are gonna go out and put it in and seal it up awaiting the first burial. I then asked why the second time is $250 more expensive that the first time since they don't have to do anything but scrape off 12" of dirt to put in the second body(They don't like it when you say "body"-the preferred term is remains). I've lived my entire life sharing bedrooms with my brothers and then getting married and sharing a bed with my wife. I would think that I can at least spend eternity without being stacked on top (or bottom) like a slice of ham on a sandwich.
This is total cow flop!!!
Sounds like he needs to speak with the Sexton or General Manager of this cemetery.


Or is this how it's done these days? What happened to getting a back hoe, digging a hole 6 feet deep-lowering a nice plain pine box into it and then covering it back up again and let the circle close.
This is how it's been done since the 1920's. It's easy to say those undertakers or gravediggers don't have a clue. But we actually are fairly practiced at how to do this correctly, versus letting someone like this guy test his theory which is the equivalent of driving the bus…right into the ditch.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

I know some folks enjoy being cavalier about such things, but burial sites aren't for the dead, they're for the living. A nice place for the spouse, children and grandchildren to visit now and then for remembering the departed isn't necessarily such a bad idea.

My grandmother died over 40 years ago, grandfather close to 20 and father over 10 years ago. It's given my mother great comfort over the years to visit them and reflect in a serene setting overlooking the Pacific ocean.

Spreading your ashes in the cat litter box might be just fine with you when you're dead, but maybe some others in the family might think somewhat differently. Or maybe not.

 

[Gyrene6891]

Funerals are for the living, the dead don't care!

 

[Rule3]

Cremation. My ashes can be mixed with concrete and stacked on a artificial reef off shore.

Scattering Ashes - Memorial Reef | Eternal Reefs

My Father in Law left instructions that his ashes be placed in a Folgers Coffee can (yes he drank a of of that swill) and then all the family gather at the Mississippi River and have them scattered in the Great Muddy. And so it was done. We had a cook out and and great time.

 

[Salty RI]

Around here we don't have any water problems and you need a vault, after a while the coffins will rot away a nd you end up with a sink hole. I remember when I was a kid, we had a neighbor that moved away and they asked my father if he would go to their family grave site once in a while and cut the grass, at this cemetary you had to mantain the grave site's yourself, anyway my father said he would, he used to take me with him, one night I was running around with my dog and all of a sudden the ground gave way under my feet, well I jumped as hard as I could, my feet never touched the ground, after that I sat in the car. This was an old cemetary and you could see how the ground was uneven from the sink holes.