Gen 3’s are Coming back !
- Thread starter cometpx4
- Start date
Not saying I don't believe it, I'm just trying to understand how this would be a profitable move for the mothership.
New "3rd gens" will cost more to produce than their other semi auto lines, and I suspect MSRP to be 700-900 dollars. I don't see thousands of people lining up at the door to buy these especially when a little patience can yield an as NIB 3rd gen on Gunbroker for well under that MSRP still.
The market for DA/SA guns is pretty saturated too, Sig has done a great job with some of their recent p226/p229 releases, and even those haven't been flying off the shelves. Factor in inflation, an economy on the downturn, and market conditions for a steel/alloy DA/SA pistol, I just don't see this happening.
I do hope I'm wrong, I'd buy a new production integral rail melonite 4563TSW in a heartbeat.
SVT28
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
When a lust for favorite is re-introduced it usually creates LOTS of buyers. Case in point.........When Lew Horton/S&W announced the mdl. 24 .3" 44spl reintroduction.......ALL THE GUNS WERE SOLD OUT.....BEFORE THE FIRST ONE WAS EVER PRODUCED.......I was in that frenzy early on.
So it could be a cash cow for S&W......They have already re-introduced a lots of their classic revolvers already.
A couple of thoughts about comments people made in this thread.
I'm reasonably sure that the last production runs of 3rd Gens were machined on CNC machines. On the last tour i went on in 2012 all of the old machines were gone and the guide said that S&W had over 100 CNC machines in Springfield.
It's possible that the older equipment had been moved to Houlton since 3rd Gen production was moved there at some point. My 3914DOA was built in Houlton and has a 2015 date on the box.
I only found out about the metal frame M&P in this this thread. Are those frames forged or are they cast? I assume that they are forged, but I also assume that ths CSX frame is forged.
IF some iteration of the 3rd Gen is reintroduced I would expect it would be the smaller guns geared to personal protection, not larger frame guns intended fo the LE market.
If I were to take my existing inventory of 3rd Gens to the range at the rate of one a week it would take almost three months to gr through them all. So, any new guns would have to fill the extremely small niche i have left. A 4553 would be an example.
I'm reasonably sure that the last production runs of 3rd Gens were machined on CNC machines. On the last tour i went on in 2012 all of the old machines were gone and the guide said that S&W had over 100 CNC machines in Springfield.
It's possible that the older equipment had been moved to Houlton since 3rd Gen production was moved there at some point. My 3914DOA was built in Houlton and has a 2015 date on the box.
I only found out about the metal frame M&P in this this thread. Are those frames forged or are they cast? I assume that they are forged, but I also assume that ths CSX frame is forged.
IF some iteration of the 3rd Gen is reintroduced I would expect it would be the smaller guns geared to personal protection, not larger frame guns intended fo the LE market.
If I were to take my existing inventory of 3rd Gens to the range at the rate of one a week it would take almost three months to gr through them all. So, any new guns would have to fill the extremely small niche i have left. A 4553 would be an example.
MattyD380
Member
That's an interesting notion. I, too, have spent thousands of dollars on used 3rd gens in the last 5 - 6 years. Granted, I own them now... will I see the need to buy new ones?
That said...
Maybe Smith has started to realize they're losing profit to the used 3rd gen market; I would/could have spent those $1000s on new Smith 3rd/4th gens, if they offered them.
- Joined
- Feb 29, 2000
- Messages
- 2,297
- Reaction score
- 2,483
Finally got hands-on with the newest HIgher-Power. It feels great, save for being too damn heavy. Once they get smart and do an alloy frame, like that new metal M&P, then it will be a player.
kbm6893
Member
I think full sized guns like the 4506 and 1006 would sell very well. And the 4566 too
Trooper224
Member
A High Power is too heavy? Sweet fancy Moses.
Green Frog
Member
Out of curiosity, would it be easier to accurately fit a separate barrel bushing (as in Gen 2) or the barrel end ball with a fixed bushing as came later? On John Browning's deign for the 1911 he used the former, but depending on the builder, that gun can be built accurately either way.
Froggie
Froggie
MattyD380
Member
Interesting. I would guess they went to the belled/balled muzzle with the 3rd gens because it was easier/cheaper to produce. But who knows.
Frank Black
Member
Well, a couple of companies are re-introducing (or trying to) an all-steel 9mm P35/Browning-type Hi-Power.
Sooo, how far-fetched is it that S&W might re-introduce a couple of 3rd Gen models?
Sooo, how far-fetched is it that S&W might re-introduce a couple of 3rd Gen models?
DMcBB
Member
I've noticed an interesting mind set among the posters here on this thread:
Nobody calls the current generation of S&W guns "4th Generation". Sure we all call the likes of the 4506, 6905, 1006, etc. the "3rd Generation" but we all presume that if a new line of DA/SA hammer fired pistols comes out then THAT would be the 4th Gen.
But if they did come out, wouldn't those be "5th Generation"??? Or perhaps even the 6th???
S&W used the term "generations" to delineate different revisions of pistol based on their original double action / single action pistol, the model 39. M&P, SW99, SD9, and other pistols are not based on the model 39 action so they are not different "generations".
People on this board are big fans of the S&W DA/SA pistols so many of us are interested in a hypothetical 4th gen DA/SA family of pistols, even if it's just a mental exercise because nobody really knows if this is real or just rumor.
kbm6893
Member
The guns are long designed. The engineering is done. If the equipment is in a warehouse somewhere they could make the guns again without a whole lot of trouble. Judging by the prices of the new Hi-Power and the Colt snake guns, I'd say the interest is there.
What needs to happen is another big movie or TV show that prominently features these guns. No secret The Walking Dead brought back the Python. A holster company even sold a replica duty rig like the one Rick Grimes wore. Dirty Harry sold a lot of Model 29's. Lethal Weapon and Die Hard the Beretta 92. If The Shield was coming out now and a monster hit, 4506's would be well over a grand.
What needs to happen is another big movie or TV show that prominently features these guns. No secret The Walking Dead brought back the Python. A holster company even sold a replica duty rig like the one Rick Grimes wore. Dirty Harry sold a lot of Model 29's. Lethal Weapon and Die Hard the Beretta 92. If The Shield was coming out now and a monster hit, 4506's would be well over a grand.
There was a production run of aluminum receiver Hi-Powers by FN Belgium for European law enforcement agencies. Today, these are sought after by collectors. Seems to me that the aluminum receiver was not as durable as the forged steel and definitely less durable than the cast steel receivers.
They won't use the original machines because it's faster to CNC machine the raw frames and slides.
And of course the people who operated those obsolete single operation machines are likely retired.
And of course the people who operated those obsolete single operation machines are likely retired.
bmcgilvray
Member
In recent years doctor told me that I have developed allergies to cast steel, aluminum alloys, and plastic so I can only have forged steel. Strangely enough, as I age I haven't developed an allergy to handgun weight.
If Smith & Wesson re-introduces a 3rd generation automatic in all forged steel and if it doesn't have any nannying baggage such as locks or micro-stamping then it would be the most sensible thing they've done since the advent of the 21st Century.
I'd about determined that I would never again make a purchase of a brand new Smith & Wesson handgun, but can see me springing for a new 3rd generation Smith & Wesson handgun, just to play with and add to the menagerie already here.
If Smith & Wesson re-introduces a 3rd generation automatic in all forged steel and if it doesn't have any nannying baggage such as locks or micro-stamping then it would be the most sensible thing they've done since the advent of the 21st Century.
I'd about determined that I would never again make a purchase of a brand new Smith & Wesson handgun, but can see me springing for a new 3rd generation Smith & Wesson handgun, just to play with and add to the menagerie already here.
Last edited:
Yes, but no one is quite sure where the castings are done. Likely not in the US because of its price point.
I'd welcome parts availability, but I wouldn't buy one until I was sure from others they are at least as good as the old ones. I won't buy new metal Sigs for the same reason. I just really don't see this happening. If they're made in the US, MSRP would have to be at or just over $1000 and what market is there at that price for a factory, metal DA/SA? Plus, it would certainly be a lot more MIM than the old ones.
Castings???.....Humm...People said the same things about Bill Ruger.
I'm pretty sure that Springfield's SA-35's major parts are made by Tisas. The parts are imported, then final machining, finishing and assembly performed in the U.S. by Springfield Armory. This is the same process by which they made various forms of the M-1911 and their P-9 pistols.
MattyD380
Member
I was in Vancouver BC in 2018... and NYC in 2019. I saw 59XXs in police holsters, in both locales.
Maybe there are more 3rd gens still in service than we realize? Maybe Smith decided they need to make parts... and, while they're at it... capture some market share on the consumer side?
If that's the rationale... maybe these things would actually be closer-in to the original formula vs. a redesign.
But, who knows. Either way... I'm actually going to New York tomorrow. I'll see if I spot any holdout NYPD 3rd gens
Maybe there are more 3rd gens still in service than we realize? Maybe Smith decided they need to make parts... and, while they're at it... capture some market share on the consumer side?
If that's the rationale... maybe these things would actually be closer-in to the original formula vs. a redesign.
But, who knows. Either way... I'm actually going to New York tomorrow. I'll see if I spot any holdout NYPD 3rd gens
Trooper224
Member
There are no castings on the SA35, it's all machined forgings. This is why I'm sure, at least the rough forgings are done off shore. There's no way it can be done here at their price point.
Which old ones do you refer to? 3rd Gens were filled with MIM parts once the -1 guns were introduced.
Similar threads
- Locked
Expired/Withdrawn
WTS: REDUCED S&W 29 Barrels & Colt SAA Gen-3 Barrel for Sale
