Glad I was Packing My 442

[BigCityChief]

I agree ABSOLUTELY! Anywhere inside of 21 ft is the "Kill Zone". In this zone the bad guy can close the distance & stab/assault you BEFORE one can draw from concealment and shoot said bad guy. SMSgt, look up "Tueller Drill"!

I spent 28+ years in the NYPD. You are ABSOLUTELY correct and so was OldCop. He did exactly what his training conditioned him to do. That's how Young cops get to be Old cops!

 

[BigCityChief]

At 3 AM this morning I was walking into the local hospital's ER b/c my wife had just been transported w/a serious case of flu (treated & released thank goodnes) when I heard someone holler at me from a distance. I turned and could barely see a dark figure about 20' away ask me for a cigarette. After 30 years as a LEO I believe this individual was looking for an easy mark. While I am a big guy, I'm well past 60 & walk with a cane so I may look like someone who will not fight back.

My hand was already in my pocket on my 442 and I pulled it out and put it behind my leg, a trick I learned from my LEO days. I told the guy in a very stern voice I could not help him and continued my journey into the ER unacosted. Nothing more happened.

When I got inside I ran into a sergeant I know and told him what happened. They never did find the guy and I'm glad things turned out the way they did, but that 442 was a very welcome companion early this morning.

Interestingly enough the hospital had a sign posted on every entrance prohibiting firearms. I'm really glad I ignored it.

Well done, Old cop!!

 

[ColbyBruce]

To the OP, GOOD for you!! Cigarettes are bad for one's health. Asking somebody for one at 3:00 a.m. from the shadows is also bad for one's health. Your quick thinking probably saved you from a trip to the ER.

I had a similar experience about four summers ago in the mountains. Four fine examples of redneck white trash asked me for a cigarette and then a match. They were looking for trouble, and found it. It worked out just fine, like your incident did.

I hope your wife is doing well too.

 

[Honey Badger]

This is another example of political correctness going beyond reason. Old Cop was sharing an experience that I for one think is a smart way to help me live beyond my 72 years of age. I will keep this in mind if ever in a similar situation. The smoker didn't know Old Cop was armed and Old Cop was in a better position to defend himself. I have a carry permit to protect myself and if I don't take it out and flash it, I don't see how anyone is harmed or even inconvenienced. Old Cop did the right thing and if he didn't post the event here no one would ever know it happened. How is that against the law?

 

[Mr Pokeyman]

Based on that theory, it's okay if I rob a bank and get away with it if no one got harmed and no one saw my weapon. I think teh FBI maight have a different view of that.

In FL, a gun "in hand" is in use. He therefore "used" a firearm against an unverified/unconfirmed threat. I see a lot of things I think are suspicious, but I don't pull out a gun every time I do. He drew his weapon...

Unbelievable! 99 out of 100 muggers start a conversation with the victim in order to close the distance and better size them up. Most ask for something to get the victim to relax and let their guard down, and yes, most of the time they prey on the elderly. Actually, what happened at the hospital is EXACTLY WHY WE CARRY! Its called self defense, protection of ourself and our loved ones. Good job Old Cop. SMSGT, get a life!

 

[MP1SG]

I am pretty sure SMSgt, Just posted that to get a response (Trolling). He has only responded one time to the 12 replies to his obsurd reply to OLDCOP.

 

[battlegraduate09]

Im overly surprised at the negativity from this thread. I havent been on here long enough to know any of you, but from Old Cops posts he seems like he is well educated and trained in safety and experienced as well. It truly is a shame but these days one cant be to careful. I will help anybody I can at any time, but asking me for a cigarette doesnt make me feel obliged to do a good deed. My town is maybe 8 miles, and a far cry from 10,000 people in population. My dad has had a guy try to rob his store twice while at work, one incident involved a guy asking for money for an alternator so he could get his family home. Dad took time out of working to go fix the car and buy his alternator rather than giving him money but the guy ran off before he could make it back from the shop. One of his employees was asked for some change for the drink machine at 4am after his shift. He reached into his pocket and was beaten nearly to death and robbed. Protecting your own life, is also protecting your families lives.

 

[redlevel]

Old cop, you done good and I applaud you. I just bet there have been similar incidents that many on the forum could relate. No shots fired. No firearm brandished, but the presence of a weapon gave you the peace of mind and reassurance you needed to act in a reasonable, authoritative manner.

I also think it needs to be shouted from the rooftop that you had a 442, a lowly j-frame with "only" five shots with which to protect yourself. I have tried to carry 1911s, K-frames, N-frames, Browning HPs, and several others. The only thing I will be sure I have every time is a j-frame. Sometimes I even carry two of them. Somebody needs to erect a monument somewhere to the lowly j-frame. It has provided peace of mind for a lot of us for a lot of years.

 

[gunfan]

Old Cop: You did EXACTLY what your years of training and instincts told you. You saved yourself, and prevented some scroat from employing his nefarious schemes. While I am certain that you would have shot (and killed) this fool, i'm sure you were grateful that it wasn't required.

To hell with the "gun free zone." (It lets the criminally inclined know that they have an "open season" declared on the people seen as easy prey.

Scott

 

[old curmudgeon]

To the person who suggested that I brandished (my gun was completely hidden) and overreacted I can only say I relied on my 30 yrs LEO experience. The hospital is in a bad part of town and I was completely isolated and vunerable. Normally I come to the aid of anyone asking for help but those words are almost always a preamble to a street robbery (part of my career was spent as a robbery Det.).

My purpose for posting was simply share what happened and to encourage members to carry responsibly, not to do what I did. My handicap leaves me unable to run so I simply prepared to defend myself if I could not get to the building safely. As has been suggested this kind of activity has been a problem in and around the ER here.

There have been a couple of references on this thread about hospitals being gun free zones.

I know what the law is for the rest of us, but wouldn't a retired LEO with a carry permit be an exception the the law that bans weapons in hospitals?

It really is a dumb law anyway. As you know, lots of really bad people inside as well as outside. Nut cases, felons, wife beaters, stalkers, etc.

I never have understood why it is my right to keep from being killed in only certain places, but a drunk who wants to kill me and whom I can stop by whatever means necessary on the street, has a license to kill me in a hospital or in a restaurant that serves alcohol.

 

[sipowicz]

I turned and could barely see a dark figure about 20' away ask me for a cigarette.

20 feet? You must smoke 100s.

 

[photoman]

I suspect an old cop knows just fine how and when to use a J frame. I sure ain't going to second guess what happened.

 

[bearfoot]

glad the misses is ok. and it turned out well.

 

[SAFireman]

I think that he needs to read the post about street robberies...Old Cop was right on the money. Decent and polite folks don't beg for cigarettes in the parking lot at 3am.

Here is the street robbery post for those that missed it awhile back Street robberies and you - The Basics - Page 1 - AR15.COM

 

[Hapworth]

I think that he needs to read the post about street robberies...Old Cop was right on the money. Decent and polite folks don't beg for cigarettes in the parking lot at 3am.

Here is the street robbery post for those that missed it awhile back Street robberies and you - The Basics - Page 1 - AR15.COM

That is a fine read you linked, plenty of food for thought -- thank you.

 

[SMSgt]

I am pretty sure SMSgt, Just posted that to get a response (Trolling). He has only responded one time to the 12 replies to his obsurd reply to OLDCOP.

Nope, not a troller. I just have reservations about someone drawing a firearm without provocation, only suspicion. That guy who asked for the cigarette has the same legal right to be there as the ex-cop who draw his firearm as a precaution. Is this what we've come to, we draw a gun anytime someone asks us for something or approaches us? And all of you find that acceptable? Really?

Were it any of us, and someone saw us do that, do you not think a MWAG call might be made? I'm all for being prepared "to" draw. Maybe the ex-cop was lucky that no one noticed him remove the gun and hide it behind his leg.

So throw all the flame you wish, but I'm a bit leery of those who instinctively "draw" a firearm, seen or unseen, at anything they perceive as a "possible" threat. As an ex-leo he may have been able to talk his way out of it had it been reported, but I don't think the common permit carrier would have, not without more substantial indication of a threat to life beyond the a request for a cigarette or some change for a cup of coffee.

I'll stand firm behind my principle of drawing only when threatened with harm and not before. I don't need jail time for what I "thought" might happen.

 

[Lost Lake]

Thanks for the story OldCop, and the lesson that comes with it.

I am the LEAST street-wise person in the world. I am trying to sharpen my skills though.

I have been approached by miscreants asking for cigarettes many times, in many poor locations, including just outside an ER in downtown Chicago. I was never carrying a gun, but by some grace of God I was never attacked. I've even had a couple of them 'surround' me (as well as two guys can do such a thing) and I got the heck out of there! Lucky for me I'm big, and my martial arts training taught me to keep distance and be ready and aware.

You know you did the right thing, in fact all but one of us knows you did the right thing. Now that I carry a weapon my stance when approached is holding one hand up instead of two like I used to do... The other is on my side arm.

Sorry to get off track and ramble on, I just wanted to say Thank You for your story and Thank You for your service to protect us all !

 

[Old cop]

SMSgt: No offense taken sir. I fully respect your right to disagree, hope you stay safe and do not become a statistic.

 

[Lost Lake]

So throw all the flame you wish, but I'm a bit leery of those who instinctively "draw" a firearm, seen or unseen, at anything they perceive as a "possible" threat.

I can legally draw my weapon when I feel threatened.

This man's 30 years of experience has taught him when he is in danger.

Let's use some common sense!

You need to LEARN from this not try to pretend you know something better...

 

[old curmudgeon]

Of course the guy had the right to be there at 3:00 AM.

He also had the right to ask for a cigarette.

Are you so naive that you do not know that the successful con man or street robber always starts off his initial contact with something that is totally legal and innocent in appearance?

The guy who is waving a 3 ft. long sword advancing on you from 100 ft. away does not get very far.

Survivors are those that are able to see early in the contact that all is not what it appears to be.

Now back to the case in hand. The suspected BG had the right to be in the parking lot.

OK.

The suspected BG had the right to ask for a cigarette.

OK.

Now tell me something.

If you needed a smoke, would you go to a hospital parking lot on a cold winter night, at 3:00 AM just hoping someone who smokes and has a pack on him will show up before you freeze your *** off?

How many non-smokers, since smoking has become the thing not to do, would you have to process before you hit the right combination of a smoker with some on him?

Falling for that line is as dumb as falling for the "My car broke down, can I use your phone" knock on your front door.

When almost every kid in grade school has a cell, the welfare people hand out free phones, etc., no one needs to knock on your door on a dark night asking to use your phone.

Yet there are people, and I suspect you are one, that will invite them in to use your phone.

Asking for a cig at 3:00 AM in an isolated area is the same thing.

I have a good story that happened on a very dark night almost 40 years ago in which I dragged a guy about half a mile with his arm clamped in my truck window, and it all started with a conversation that he had the right to initiate in a place he had a right to be.

Had I not caught on to the fact that there was another guy standing at the rear of my truck, I might not be here today.

A good story and one day I will take the time to write it down.