Going to put a sledge hammer to my M&P Shield

[walkin' trails]

The sight dovetails on all M&Ps are increadibly tight, and a sight pusher is the only safe and sure way to go. You could always exercise your factory warranty and have S&W try to take care if it, it's probably better if a local smith or range staff could handle it where you can more readily check the adjustments. If you've had other shooters experiencing the same results, then your sight likely needs to be drifted. Sometimes, certain brands/ configurations of ammo cause changes in POI, but that shouldn't be much difference at closer distances. If you've already shot different brands, then it's the sights.

 

[Fastcast]

Shield sights are factory installed by machine....a pusher that"s set at X amount of pressure...so it's possible that the front sight could come out a hair off.

A hair off, lol? I wish I would have taken a picture before moving mine. You can read my comical experience getting mine moved in the M&P 9mm front sight thread. Here's a little drawing though for reference to how much a "hair" can be, out of the S&W factory. Then, there's my mag spring experience, see the other pic. Loaded my 7 round mag 3 times and when the slide wouldn't lock back on the last round or manually, I disassembled it to see what was going on and found this.

With that said 325 rounds and no FTF or FTE even with the "patented" S&W spring so they still have me hanging on by a thread. Now let me get back on the phone with them to find out where my replacement springs are. Apparently it even takes a couple weeks to send out a package.....

 

[BE Mike]

I wish but I highly doubt anyone I know owns one.

A Ransom Rest will tell you NOTHING about how the sights are aligned. Only accuracy and I seriously doubt that there are any inserts available for the Shield. Back to the original problem. I had a Glock 23, my first and only. It always grouped left. The groups were nice and tight, but alas to the left. I got some after market adjustable sights, moved them all the way to the right and even put them in the dovetail to the right to get it to group center for me. Many Glock people told me it was operator error. I don't really buy that theory, as I am a very competent revolver and pistol shooter. I might look at the sights differently than others as many people who shoot my handguns don't use my sight settings. Anyway, the new S&W M&P pistols have similar triggers, so maybe that's the problem (but I doubt it)? I sold the Glock and went to double action only triggered pistols. Problem solved. If I were in your shoes, I'd sell the gun. If you are worried about the morality of selling it as is, maybe you can let someone shoot it and either accept or reject the pistol based upon their experience.

 

[44wheelman]

Shooting left...hmmm, rotate your gun counter clockwise 90 degrees and aim for the head/neck...should put your shots center mass.

 

[vmumford]

Not to turn this into an ethics debate. However, I wouldn't do that for multiple reasons. The main reason is that the person I sell the pistol to may someday have to use it to save their lives. If I do not yet feel comfortable trusting my life to this gun why would I transfer that to someone else?

I'm sure the issue will get corrected and lets just say for arguments sake that it's a bad barrel. There is no loss in sending it to S&W for inspection and possible correction.

I totally agree with you on this. I wont sell anything without disclosure. Have you tried bench rest to see if the issue is still apperant?

 

[gman51]

Empty the gun and grasp the gun the way you usually do. There should be clearance between your trigger finger and the gun frame. If not then when you press the trigger and flex the finger muscle against the frame it will/can push the gun to one side or the other.
I had a revolver that shot about 4" low and left. I sand bag rested the front muzzle and set the butt on foam rubber. I gently pulled the trigger and sure enough the gun shot a good consistent pattern low and left. I bent and filed the front sight and got it to shoot more to POA. I believe either the barrel was canted off center to the frame or the front sight slot was machined off center.
I had an FN 57 that I couldn't hit the side of the barn from standing inside the barn no matter how much I adjusted the sights. Also IMO trigger action and reach is a huge factor for being accurate with any gun.
I also get rid of guns I shoot very poorly. It may not be the guns fault, which it probably isn't, but ammo is to expensive to waste on a gun I can't shoot well.

 

[rwsmith]

Heavy trigger pull????????

This sounds strange to me. My Shied has by far the best trigger of all of my DAO guns. It has been compared to being more like a single action. If nothing else, I'd measure the trigger pull. It sounds like something is wrong.

 

[dben002]

here is my Shield 45...your sight should be over the center of your barrel........

 

[gwpercle]

Get rid of it and purchase a model with fully adjustable sights. After my first fixed sight model , I made it a point not to get them that way any longer .
That first revolver now has a red dot sight mounted , but adjustable is the way to go.

You can always send it back and see if S&W can help it .

Just because your sights are over the center of the barrel that doesn't mean it will shoot to your eyes or to where the gun's barrel is pointing.

Gary

 

[Fastbolt]

Have you shot the Shield in your other hand? Did it sill shoot that far off in the same direction? If the direction of the POI "changes" when you change hands, it's likely not the gun or its sights.

The Shield is a rather thin single stack, with a short reach to the trigger. It's possible that you're getting too much, or too little, finger against the trigger, and then are unknowingly pushing/pulling (as the case may be) the trigger - and therefore the muzzle - off to one side at the moment the trigger press is completed. That moment is when a lot of shooters may "lose contact" with their sights, so they don't see that their sight picture has actually changed at the moment of firing. Then, they blame their sights.

Oh yeah, that weird kink in the mag spring has happened with some other mag springs that transition from small to large coils. Annoying, to be sure, and apparently something to do with the manufacturing (heat treat?) of the springs.

You could try some of the old remedies for diagnosing shooter-induced POI shift ... rest a nickel on the front sight (and see if it moves a bit to the side on the sight post, not just falls off), or get some actual Dummy rounds and have 1 or 3 loaded into some different mags (by someone else, who also loads the gun, so you don't see the top couple of rounds in the mag during loading), and see what happens when the dummy round comes up.

Dummy round drills only work if you actually think the gun is going to fire a live round, though, as a lot of people unconsciously change their trigger press to "make it good" when they think they're about to be fooled by a Dummy round being chambered.

I usually take a shooter's pistol and unload it, manipulate, it, examine it (turning away from them, so they can't see exactly what I'm doing), making them think I'm checking something on the gun ... while simply making sure the mag isn't seated to let the gun chamber a live round at one point ... and then hand them back a gun which I tell them is loaded and ready to fire, and instruct them to make a precision shot on the target. That virtually always reveals a flinch and/or trigger clench or jerk that pulls the muzzle offline as they fight the non-existent recoil or yank the trigger off to one side at the end of their trigger press. In other words, they really think the gun is going to fire, and they do whatever it is they're doing that interferes with them getting a good hit, which is easier to see if the gun isn't recoiling and cycling.

In order to correct a shooter problem, first you have to prove to the shooter that it exists.

If you send the gun back to the company, they'll check it for a barrel/slide problem and test-fire it, but if it's not a gun "problem" that won't diagnose the nature of the shooter problem (other than it being a shooter problem).

In order to correct a shooter-induced problem, it has to be diagnosed (while getting the shooter to acknowledge that it's related to something they are, or aren't, doing).

Can't be diagnosed and corrected online, though, but has to be observed and resolved in-person ... which is why they don't have me telecommute to work range sessions.

Best of luck in figuring out what's going on. The Shield is still commanding the market in the little subcompact single stack segment. I just learned that the company has put the 1.5 million unit mark in their rear view mirror, and production & sales are still hot. It's apparently broken all existing company sales records, for any handgun model in their history.

 

[Dvan34]

I have an SW MP Shield .40 CA.. No problem with the sight but I wanted something better and bought the XS Sight. I had a gunsmith (armorer) install it for $88.00. The large Tritium front sight is great for both night and day shooting. Just put that front sight on target.Fast, easy target acquistion.

 

[Fishinfool]

Lots of posters think it may be a shooter induced problem - the way he holds / squeezes the trigger, and it may very well be so. On a handgun used for range / target shooting / hunting, I would always recommend experimenting with hand position / trigger release to correct the problem, if possible.

But, on a small handgun designed for self defense, I take another tact. If the way you naturally grip the gun and squeeze the trigger causes you to miss POA, and you are consistent about it, then adjust the sights to how you shoot. You may find a grip manipulation that brings the POI closer to POA, but if it's not the way you naturally grip the gun, then it's not something you want to have to worry about and fumble with when you are drawing the gun under pressure, in a real SD situation. With enough training, you can make it second nature, but how many really practice enough to realize the muscle memory needed to change your natural grip / trigger squeeze under pressure?

Larry

 

[Fastbolt]

A lot of golf, baseball & tennis coaches are going to be out of business if it's as simple as letting someone use whatever they think is a "natural grip", for them, and not think about changing anything for the particular equipment being used.

Granted, not all guns are likely to fit each and every individual's hand size & finger length, or hit their palm in just right spot. Some training and accommodation may be needed, or, if allowable, perhaps a different piece of equipment may be in order.

For example, I've seen a couple of guys with huge hands and long fingers who could find a way to fire a LCP, but couldn't make it as natural, fast or as controllable as with many other smallish guns they could easily adapt to and use. They simply didn't think they could use a LCP, so they didn't buy one.

As an instructor, I've seen my fair share of shooters who had borderline or outright poor "natural grips", but who had found guns which didn't require that they consider improving and refining their grip techniques. Their poor grip worked with the guns they'd chosen, and if they suddenly had to start using a different gun, they had to relearn how to grip it, which also often meant how they performed a trigger press.

Not everyone grasps a handgun (or AR) so their index finger is naturally aligned to the trigger for a straight press. Some become accustomed to having to do some interesting manipulation of a trigger in order to accommodate their "natural grip" style. (This is usually correctable, but it's obviously harder for someone if they've really laid down a poor, or awkward, grip technique for some time, and have convinced themselves that since it's "natural", it's good to go.)

These are the sort of issues that an experienced instructor can help identify and alleviate, at least much of the time. Can't really do much if the hand/finger & gun grip size/trigger reach disparity is just so far apart from each other, which is when it can really become frustrating.

 

[alwaysoutdoors]

It's a sight alignment issue. Understand that the sights are attached to the slide. Send it back to SW and they'll take care of it.

<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

[GAPP]

Right hand shooter, you shoot to the left, Left hand shooter, you shoot to the right, especially with the various models of the S&W M&P's. We get it on the Range all the time during qualification. The sights both front and rear are drift adjustable, however it is best to use a sight pusher to move them. The guns always shot better than I could and like any marriage adjustments will need to be done by both parties to get the best. Smiths are good only wish they made a conversion unit for them.

 

[Fastcast]

Oh yeah, that weird kink in the mag spring has happened with some other mag springs that transition from small to large coils. Annoying, to be sure, and apparently something to do with the manufacturing (heat treat?) of the springs.

No doubt, the heat treating was way off! Here's what I posted in the other thread (Shield 9 bent magazine spring) about that spring:

I'm sure they just got a bad batch of "spring" steel, it happens in manufacturing. I popped that bent spring back into place, clipped 2 coils off and tried to reload it and it still folded over. That spring has barley any spring to it whatsoever. It can be bent and twisted almost as easily as regular steel and clipped with side cuts like it was aluminum.

 

[BE Mike]

You might try shooting someone else's Shield to see if you get the same results. If not that an M&P. If you still get good groups to the left, the gun simply doesn't suit you. Sell it or trade it. Try a Kahr.

 

[patrickd]

First make sure it is UNLOADED. Then have someone stand directly behind you . Assume the position and dry fire several times as your assistant watches the movement of the pistol as you pull the trigger. I bet he/she will see your hand either pulling the gun or pushing the gun as you squeeze the trigger. The main culprit in this is most always using too much finger on the trigger. In your case maybe your solution might be the Apex trigger. My son bought one for his and said the difference was night and day. Told me the factory trigger was so bad out of the box he regretted buying the pistol. After the new trigger swap he's a very satisfied Shield shooter.

 

[rwsmith]

Again.....

Is it the heavy trigger pull that is forcing the Shield to move to the left on me and the three other people who shot it? I'm not against changing the trigger but I would at least like some opinions on this.

My Shield does NOT have a heavy trigger. If somebody says they have a heavy Shield trigger it sets off an alarm. If the trigger is not within specs....get it fixed. If it is within specs, get an Apex trigger job. There's no reason to complain about a heavy trigger on the Shield. It's DAO, yeah, but people rave about the triggers. It's better than any DAO gun I have.

 

[Mountain Walker]

I think "trigger over-travel" is creating your problem. This is the rearward movement of the trigger after the point of the release of the striker. It can hinder your follow thru to stay on target.

Probably your trigger pull is the same as my Shield, 7#. That much force is being applied by your finger against your hand holding the gun. When he trigger breaks, you're still applying that force against no resistance from the trigger, so your hand ends up jerking during the LONG over-travel. The problem comes from the fact that neither primer ignition nor bullet emergence from the muzzle are instantaneous after their initiating event. You end up jerking the gun off target due to over-travel unless you've specifically trained to overcome it, and that's not easy to do.