Good intent...Bad outcome

[Absalom]

I'm not going to get into technicalities addressing hypotheticals, but let me just say I don't envy the prosecutor or, if it comes to that, jury who has to figure out what actually happened here.

Two dogs attacking, one holding people off while the other attacks the woman? Umm... right.

Then, quoting Mr. Williams from the second linked article: "And this dog trying to attack, attack, attack – 'til I found my left hand and the gun went off. And she said Mike you shot me. And I picked her up."

Indeed. I'd like to know what the "attacking" dogs did during the time Mr. Williams picked his victim up and deposited her somewhere, hopefully after stowing his weapon, and then returned to take more unsuccessful potshots at the dogs.

And nobody appears to have got bitten. Some attacking pitbulls, that.

I hope there are eyewitnesses who can tell a more cohesive story.

 

[Watchdog]

Then, quoting Mr. Williams from the second linked article: "And this dog trying to attack, attack, attack – 'til I found my left hand and the gun went off. And she said Mike you shot me. And I picked her up."

This makes no sense to me at all. Had he somehow misplaced his left hand? Maybe had it in his pocket and forgot where he put it?

I'd like to know what the "attacking" dogs did during the time Mr. Williams picked his victim up and deposited her somewhere, hopefully after stowing his weapon, and then returned to take more unsuccessful potshots at the dogs.

I'd like to know that, myself. Who knows? Maybe walking around, sniffing, peeing on bushes, just hanging out like dogs do?

And nobody appears to have got bitten. Some attacking pitbulls, that.

No one even knows if they were "pitbulls" or not.

I hope there are eyewitnesses who can tell a more cohesive story.

I would hope so, too, but don't hold your breath.

 

[Protected One]

To the poster who sent me a pm questioning how the man could have possibly shot her... Your mailbox was too full to receive my reply, so I post it here.

Not being there or having access to any investigation reports I can't say definitively what happened. However I can easily see at least one scenario of how it could have happened. Imagine him arriving at the woman and positioning himself between the woman (who is on the ground injured) and the dog. Now imagine him carrying his gun at the 4:00 position in a canted holster. When his draw clears the holster his gun could easily have been pointed at her, and if he put his finger on the trigger immediately, with all the adrenalin flowing he could easily have pulled the trigger prematurely.

Forum members and others like to talk about how "I would do this or that" in a given situation, yet I've know professionally trained people who, when confronted with a REAL situation found it to be a little different. I therefore reserve judgement.

 

[GypsmJim]

Why? He wasn't "on patrol" when this incident took place. It states, in the very first paragraph:



While I agree that a non-LE/security individual shouldn't be conducting such patrols, it's irrelevant in this case because he wasn't doing that. He was on his own property, taking care of it.

The article went on to say that he "regularly patrols the neighborhood to protect children". That goes to his mindset. It's irrelevant that he was on his own property. The key is that he was using a firearm when he was not properly trained.

 

[GypsmJim]

Yep.



That's their right to do so. And you aren't giving the full particulars of that case...just saying the little girl was maimed by the dog. With only your account of it to go on, we don't know if the dog was loose, or she went into the dog's yard, or was she teasing the dog or fooling with its food, or what.

Also, the court, by law, is required to hear cases brought before it, even if they end up being almost immediately dismissed. Just because the judge is "considering" the case doesn't make him a "sorry" judge. It's his job to follow the law, and the law dictates that he hear the case.



Not necessarily. Unfortunately, dogs get loose in spite of an owner's best intentions or efforts. That doesn't make the owner irresponsible. Liable? Possibly. Irresponsible? No.

The full particulars of the case were that the little girl was playing in the backyard of her apartment complex when the (pitbull) dog came out of an open apartment door and attacked her. Looks like the owner had no intentions of securing the door. Liable? Absolutely. No leash, opening a door with no expectation of safety. Irresponsible? Oh yeah.

 

[rwsmith]

Intent.....

It wasn't intentional. He acted in good faith to try to stop an attack. Manslaughter.

That is durned unfortunate through. And it goes to show all of us that in the heat of the moment you can make involuntary moves and not have good control over where the bullet ends up.

 

[Mistered]

The entire account makes no sense. I'm confused as to how, if he was standing in between the victim and the dog, he managed to shoot the woman without facing her, without wildly waiving his firearm around.

I see the root of the problem as 'demographic'. I am seeing an inner city environment, a very good guess the guy had little to no firearms training and probably less 'ancillary' practice and most likely no experience with dogs and probably an irrational fear of them. At the risk of sounding 'flowery' This man was most likely nearly driven mad with fear - no longer humanly rational and almost on the same level as the animal itself. He was acting out of primal instinct as the fight or flight condition completely overwhelmed him and his shots were most likely wild and out of control.

 

[Wise_A]

I don't think it's demographics at all. I think he has a hero complex--not exactly unheard of in gun circles--and I don't think he's fully competent. Probably not to the standard we normally think of for disability, but more than enough to prevent him from aiding in his own defense, and enough to have played a role in his decision-making. Simply put, I don't think he can be judged based on the "reasonable person" standard.

As reprehensible as the failure of his actions is, how he describes what he did, and why, is worse. Missing the actor and hitting the victim happens all the time, in all sorts of situations, to all sorts of shooters.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

Most States require training for a CWP or equivalent time spent in armed public service. I believe most also require a "qualification" of 6 rounds or so at a Bullseye target. I will reserve my opinion but the issuing authority declares such to be "training".

Done a count on that lately?

BTW, serving in the military is often or usually NOT armed public service.

 

[Protected One]

Well, I just confirmed with the prosecutors office that no charges have been filed against the man.

 

[Protected One]

Update!

The man was sentenced to 5 years probation with the first 3 month to be served in the county jail, AND...he looses his right to own a gun.

In court the family of the woman said they didn't believe there were any dogs attacking, but he swore he was telling them the truth.

 

[GoodSam]

Without reading all the details I can't fault the guy for trying to help the woman. How can any decent person just stand there and let dogs rip an innocent person to shreds if they have the means to do something about it? I would've wanted the guy to take the shot if I were the woman being mauled.

It's a difficult dilemma though when a situation like this doesn't present a clear shot with two fast moving, twisting, turning dogs and a human thrashing around the ground with each other.

A scenario like this may be better served with a few blasts of pepper spray or maybe a good knife along with a lot of aggressive yelling. Then again, there is always the risk the dogs will turn on you.

 

[nachogrande]

WASN'T THERE EITHER, NO ASSUMPTIONS TO OFFER.

As a pre teen walking my lab on a leash, he was attacked by a group of feral dogs. I unhooked his leash & attempted to whip the other dogs with the chain leash at app 3'. With all the moving around I managed to hit my own dog the most. (felt horrible). Although "with friends like that, who needs enemies" first came to mind, "There but for the grace of God go I".

 

[Protected One]

As a pre teen walking my lab on a leash, he was attacked by a group of feral dogs. I unhooked his leash & attempted to whip the other dogs with the chain leash at app 3'. With all the moving around I managed to hit my own dog the most. (felt horrible). Although "with friends like that, who needs enemies" first came to mind, "There but for the grace of God go I".

Did your dog survive the attack?

 

[oldiegoldie]

are stun guns effective in warding off an attacking dog? i carry a Vipertek stun gun in my back pocket when out with the pup. would good pepper spray be a better bet? of course i've always got a pistol, but consider it a last resort.

 

[Chief Wiggums]

Great , another George Zimmerman...….


"Williams, who said he patrols the neighborhood in his car to protect children, says he wasn't aiming and doesn't know how the bullet hit his neighbor..."

 

[Wise_A]

Don't fret, it only happened eight months ago.