Goodbye Cleveland Indians

[quikdraw67]

Hello Cleveland Guardians.

Whatever. They'll always be the Indians to me.

Just like the Washington Football Team will always be the Redskins.

 

[Muss Muggins]

I bought a Cleveland Indians t-shirt last year in anticipation of this change. Also got shirts for the Braves, Chiefs, and Seminoles . . .

 

[mtgianni]

What about the Warriors? I foresee the time when some numb-skull takes it upon them selves to sue in the name of animals used as team names next. After all someone has money and someone else wants some of it.

Several of my native friends wear Cleveland Indian ball caps, none thought it was derogatory.

 

[SMSgt]

Guardians? I'd have gone with Cleveland Rocks.

 

[F4phantom]

Sounds like a prophylactic. Maybe they can guard last place. And my father was a huge Cleveland fan. PC going amuck.

 

[waffles]

I understand the reasoning for the Guardians name, but it's still a crummy name.

Otherwise, good call. Using another people, especially one with a pretty notable history of being screwed over by general US society, for your business mascot isn't awesome. That Chief Wahoo made it to 2018 is mind-boggling as well.

The Utah Utes seem to have figured out the right way to do this kind of thing. They are partnered with a particular tribe (not just "indians"), they are not using problematic imagery, the tribe gets financial benefits from the deal, and the partnership must be renewed at certain times to be valid.

All that said, at least they weren't trying to make it into 2020 with the name "Redskins". Amazed that went as long as it did.

 

[Rob613]

I hope they lose their fan base and fold for caving to woke BS.

 

[smithra_66]

So lame. The woke culture currently being promoted by the left is idiotic.

 

[smithra_66]

I understand the reasoning for the Guardians name, but it's still a crummy name.

Otherwise, good call. Using another people, especially one with a pretty notable history of being screwed over by general US society, for your business mascot isn't awesome. That Chief Wahoo made it to 2018 is mind-boggling as well.

The Utah Utes seem to have figured out the right way to do this kind of thing. They are partnered with a particular tribe (not just "indians"), they are not using problematic imagery, the tribe gets financial benefits from the deal, and the partnership must be renewed at certain times to be valid.

All that said, at least they weren't trying to make it into 2020 with the name "Redskins". Amazed that went as long as it did.

Good grief, you are sensitive.

How many thousands of teams in the USA from pop warner, high school, college, etc. do you think are named "Indians?" What about the "chiefs," or the "seminoles" or the "Fighting Illini?"

How many US counties are named after Indian words? Cities?

Are we going to go in and change all of them? What the hell will that accomplish?

How about the name "Yankees?" That was a derogatory term that the Confederates called the north, or that the brits called the colonists. I'm sure that name offends someone too.

What's next? Bulldogs? We are objectifying innocent animals with those names. I'm sure some goofy people are offended by that too.

Where does this madness end?

 

[swsig]

They really missed an opportunity. They should have renamed the team after the most legendary thing that ever came out of Cleveland.

They should have become the "351s".

 

[waffles]

Good grief, you are sensitive.

How many thousands of teams in the USA from pop warner, high school, college, etc. do you think are named "Indians?" What about the "chiefs," or the "seminoles" or the "Fighting Illini?"

Are we going to go in and change all of them? What the hell will that accomplish?

How about the name "Yankees?" That was a derogatory term that the Confederates called the north, or that the brits called the colonists. I'm sure that name offends someone too.

What's next? Bulldogs? We are objectifying innocent animals with those names. I'm sure some goofy people are offended by that too.

Where does this madness end?

Perhaps we can dig deep into cleveland baseball history, and choose a name more appropriate for internet commenters outraged that a business recognized increasingly negative perception of its brand and made a change. Just so happens we have one! Not quite the crybabies, but it's close.

Cleveland Infants - Wikipedia

And yeah, probably should move away from the names mentioned for lower level teams too, if they can't be done respectfully. I provided an actual, large scale example of a team using a native american name in a positive way, might be worthwhile for you to take a look at it again.

The yankees example would be a great one if the confederates won the war, subjugated the yankee northerners, then decided to use their defeated foes as a mascot. For it to be complete, there'd also have to be an aspect of the northerners being a different race as well.

I'd ask people to ask themselves why they're outraged by this. Think the Guardians is a dumb name? Me too! They had much better options (I was liking Commodores) floated around. This isn't the government stomping on the free speech rights of a team owner, it's not even the MLB coming out and saying you can't play until you change (though I have no doubt there was pressure), it's a team choosing to move away from a name tainted by the spectre of racism, maybe out of progressive feelings, maybe out of just not wanting the controversy.

 

[Golddollar]

Anything I say would probably get me banned.

 

[smithra_66]

Perhaps we can dig deep into cleveland baseball history, and choose a name more appropriate for internet commenters outraged that a business recognized increasingly negative perception of its brand and made a change. Just so happens we have one! Not quite the crybabies, but it's close.

Cleveland Infants - Wikipedia

And yeah, probably should move away from the names mentioned for lower level teams too, if they can't be done respectfully. I provided an actual, large scale example of a team using a native american name in a positive way, might be worthwhile for you to take a look at it again.

The yankees example would be a great one if the confederates won the war, subjugated the yankee northerners, then decided to use their defeated foes as a mascot. For it to be complete, there'd also have to be an aspect of the northerners being a different race as well.

I'd ask people to ask themselves why they're outraged by this. Think the Guardians is a dumb name? Me too! They had much better options (I was liking Commodores) floated around. This isn't the government stomping on the free speech rights of a team owner, it's not even the MLB coming out and saying you can't play until you change (though I have no doubt there was pressure), it's a team choosing to move away from a name tainted by the spectre of racism, maybe out of progressive feelings, maybe out of just not wanting the controversy.

I'm not an Indians fan and I have no emotional connection to that team whatsoever.

I care about the deeper lunacy going on here. These names are being changed not because of popular outcry, but because a vocal minority of mentally ill people think it's a good idea and the teams are terrified of being accused of "racism" by the blue checkmark mob.

That's our current culture...I'm sure in a few years or a generation, we'll look back on this time and realize how stupid it was, but until then the book burners, monument destroyers, and team name changers, however the minority they are, are seeming to control the narrative. Nothing will make them happy and they will continue their insatiable appetite for scrubbing American culture until they are finally stopped and we say enough is enough.

That's the issue I'm talking about. Merely calling a team the "Indians" is not derogatory, and in fact is a way of honoring them by choosing a name that invokes a spirit that you'd want your team to portray.

Listen to how crazy that sounds that we're going to go through the thousands of teams in this country and change their names because of "Feelings."

Surely we have more important things to worry about?

 

[bgrafsr]

Idiotic name. Haven't watched them at all this year, and now I never will.

 

[dave1918a2]

The headhunters will never stop. Once they are done with pro sports teams, they will simply pick something else, and it will go on,and on, and on, and on.

 

[smithra_66]

Adding to my post above, here is a poll from a Canton, Ohio newspaper from a year ago on whether the team should change their name.

Further proof that THIS IS NOT POPULAR. There is no major public outcry for this nonsense. Not sure where this "increasingly negative outrage" BS was coming from? 77% of the respondents said NO to the name change!

 

[BAM-BAM]

Guess the intent is for the Guardians to try to keep the Pirates out of Cleveland!!!!

The Steelers are headed to LA to do some uncontested shoplifting!

Penguins are just going to blow it in the first round of the playoffs.....again!!

 

[quikdraw67]

They really missed an opportunity. They should have renamed the team after the most legendary thing that ever came out of Cleveland.

They should have become the "351s".

Well played!

 

[waffles]

I'm not an Indians fan and I have no emotional connection to that team whatsoever.

I care about the deeper lunacy going on here. These names are being changed not because of popular outcry, but because a vocal minority of mentally ill people think it's a good idea and the teams are terrified of being accused of "racism" by the blue checkmark mob.

That's our current culture...I'm sure in a few years or a generation, we'll look back on this time and realize how stupid it was, but until then the book burners, monument destroyers, and team name changers, however the minority they are, are seeming to control the narrative. Nothing will make them happy and they will continue their insatiable appetite for scrubbing American culture until they are finally stopped and we say enough is enough.

That's the issue I'm talking about. Merely calling a team the "Indians" is not derogatory, and in fact is a way of honoring them by choosing a name that invokes a spirit that you'd want your team to portray.

Listen to how crazy that sounds that we're going to go through the thousands of teams in this country and change their names because of "Feelings."

Surely we have more important things to worry about?

So you have no connection to the indians, no investment in them at all, as you say, then why are you so upset by this? What aspect of your culture and history is this scrubbing?

It's a baseball team changing a name after, as they say, consulting with native american groups across the country. They've had decades of hostility from native groups, including annual opening day protests, and had already removed Chief Wahoo.

I don't think I'll ever understand the outrage culture around this kind of stuff. They've been under fire for ages about this issue, they just didn't care enough until recently to do something about it. Now they finally do, native groups get a win, and as you say, it does not impact you at all emotionally, but here we are. I guess I just don't see accomodating a group as a loss for me, but I'm clearly in the minority here.

Also, for what it's worth, I think this is built on decades of fans and management responses (or in management's case, lack thereof) to native groups primarily upset about "Chief Wahoo". I think there's still a pretty good argument to be made against using a historically horribly marginalized group as your business mascot, but keeping a bucktoothed cartoon caricature depicting a marginalized group, then refusing to do anything in the face of widespread complaints from members of the group it depicts was pretty crummy. If the extent of it had just been "The Indians", they'd still get flack, but I don't think they'd be changing their name today. They retired it in 2018, but by that point I don't think it made enough of a difference to stop what was coming.

 

[Onomea]

I'm in the ho-hum camp.