Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry

[oldman45]

Just a couple of days ago there was a nasty home invasion in my town. The victim was a well known TV/radio personality so it got a lot of media coverage.

The home owner was shot 4 times, his son was shot 4 times as well. Both of them are in the hospital making a recovery.

One of the bad guys died, after being shot eight times with a 9mm. Another one was wounded twice (in the shoulders) but managed to get away, go get his father and show up at a hospital claiming to be the victim of a robbery.

According to the initial police report, some twenty shots were fired from several different handguns.

Most local gun-folks I've discussed this incident with think that it proves the need for high capacity handguns. IMHO, it proves the need for a good 12ga shotgun!

Shotguns are great for home defense. Not all crimes occur inside a home. The crime above appears to prove the need for more target practice and not a shotgun. My money would say the victim has not been on a range twice in any six month period. Being a gun owner does not mean being proficient with a gun.

Taking it one item at a time:

Being hit eight times indicates a larger caliber is needed and not more rounds. He was hitting his target but not getting immediate results.
Hitting the shoulders (assuming both since you used a plural form) means the shooter was not accurate with a gun. More rounds is not going to help in this but will send more missed rounds elsewhere.
People do not practice enough to know how to shoot.
A shotgun can also be used against a homeowner. It is a lot more different going around corners, walking through doorways and such with a shotgun in hand. A shotgun is a lever that can be grabbed by the barrel by an oppoenent. Call the police to a residence believed to have an intruder. Officers will respond and there will likely be a shotgun in their cars but they will not go in carrying them.

A shotgun makes a great gun outdoors for multiple assailants. The sight of it is intimidating. It is difficult to miss with a shotgun. They just require one to make more of a target in their use.

Just saying

 

[dwever]

You are an LEO, and IMO you should be armed with a high-cap pistol and extra magazines . . . For us average folks, I think a wheel gun is still a very suitable CCW choice, I think its highly unlikely that any of us are ever going to need more than a few shots. A J frame and a speed strip in my pocket, and I'm good.

Like a number of posts on this thread, the decision to carry a pistol or revolver has been reduced to simply capacity. I am respectfully suggesting that capacity is one factor, and in most cases by itself is probably not adequate to make the determination for concealed carry and self defense. It wasn't for me.

In the original post, the pistol was put forward as having multiple advantages for the OP (but not necessarily for others) well beyond simple capacity: good energy, less recoil, faster follow-up shots, more accuracy, superior capacity, better concealment, better at night, and better (less) weight. These multiple factors taken together made the decision to carry the pistol.

 

[LL617]

My spouse prefers using the .9mm SA. I have a .38SP Bodyguard for concealed carry and personal defense. I hope to purchase a model 66 .357 fairly soon to use for defensive purposes I have a 617 for fun.

However, I recently saw the MP40 demonstrated on TV. My daughter also likes this a lot. Sometime in the future, I am thinking about getting the MP40 and also a Ruger rifle.

I hope that would cover all the bases.

 

[Mphstiger1981]

I think it was Clint Smith who once said that he never met a person who had actually been in a gunfight who had wished for a smaller caliber gun, or less ammunition.

 

[sipowicz]

I got tired of carrying only 5 rounds in my little j-frame revolver...so I got a 6 shot Colt....

 

[sheepdawg]

Carried a semi auto for years and all of a sudden it turns into a jamomatic. It lingers in the back of my mind so I carry an S&W 15-3 snubbie now with a speed loader in my pocket. I know it will go boom everytime I pull the trigger.


Revolvers don't look as cool if you hold them sideways as what's in vouge now though.

 

[W.E.G.]

Sometimes I carry the G22.

Sometimes I carry the Hand-Ejector.

While I'm competent enough with both of them, it mostly is kind of like carrying around one of my favorite baseball cards. Their just not much fun to collect if you just put them in a stiff box, and hardly ever look at them.

We don't really have much crime in my area.

Here are some highlights from last weeks "crime report."

Suspicious Event/ Possible Construction Fraud 12-03005
900 Block Cottage Street, SW
January 31 12:00 p.m.
A citizen reported that on the listed date a subject approached him at his home and told him his
house needed repairs for damage it sustained during the recent earthquake.
The homeowner agreed to have the work completed. After a couple hours the subject told the
complainant that he was finished and requested payment in the amount of $4,000.00. The
complainant paid the "worker".
The complainant recently checked with another contractor about the repairs and this contractor
felt that the complainant was scammed. It appears that the cracks sustained during the earthquake
were merely painted over.
Attempts to contact the original worker have been fruitless.
This case is still being investigated.
.
.
.


Suspicious Event 12-02990
Cedar Lane School
101 Cedar Lane, SW
February 24 10:43 a.m.
Officer Tremont responded for a disruptive 21 year old student that was running around the
school without a shirt.
Upon his arrival the student had fled the school. Further investigation revealed that the student
became disruptive after his mother arrived to take him home.
PFC Ruddy located the student a short distance away. He was reunited with his mother and went
with her without further incident. The mother transported the son to a medical facility for
evaluation.
.
.
.


Police Service 12-03197
500 Block Roberts Drive, NW
February 24 2:00 p.m.
A citizen reported that he heard about an obscene Twitter message that had been written about
him.
.
.
.

Police Service 12-03061
Popeye's Chicken Restaurant
325 Maple Avenue, East
February 25 7:50 p.m.
A manager reported that an employee was refusing to leave the store after being asked to do so.
The employee failed to perform an assigned task and had been asked to leave by the manager.
Officer Tracy spoke with both parties and convinced the employee to leave without incident.
.
.
.

Suspicious Person 12-03106
CVS Store
337 Maple Avenue, East
February 26 6:00 p.m.
MPO Sheeran responded for the report of a suspicious individual photographing Girl Scouts as
they were selling cookies in front of the store. After approximately a 20 minute delay the police
were notified.
.
.
.

Medical Case 12-03146
300 Block Maple Avenue, West
February 27 8:33 p.m.
Several concerned citizens reported a female subject that was walking along the sidewalk and
screaming.
Arriving officers located the adult female lying on the sidewalk. The individual was transported
back to her home on Thelma Circle. At the house the woman's mother reported that she was
being disruptive inside the home and presented a danger.
The woman was then transported to a medical facility for evaluation and treatment.
.
.
.

Animal Case 12-03219
1100 Block Drake Street, SW
February 28 9:08 p.m.
MPO Shaver responded for 2 dogs that were barking. The dogs had the ability to freely enter and
exit the home and were barking incessantly in the fenced yard.
Attempts to contact the dog's owner were unsuccessful.
ACO Barker will follow up on this case.
.
.
.

Grand Larceny 12-03261
Wolftrap Hotel
March 1 12:34 a.m.
A citizen rented a room at the hotel. While there he contacted a massage therapist using a
website and requested a massage in his room.
A short time later a female arrived at his room. The victim paid her up front for the service but
she left with his cash. No massage was provided.
This case is still being investigated.

 

[dwever]

WTH? What a spectacularly inane waste of off-topic space W.E.G. Don't drink and post.

 

[Franciscomv]

Fransiscomv said:
"One of the bad guys died, after being shot eight times with a 9mm."

-This happens I know. Either the thug was blasted on meth or coke or some kind of multi chemical cocktail, or those 8 shots were ball ammo. But it ended well for him.

Well, you're right about the ball ammo. FMJ is the only kind of ammo we can legally use for self defense in my country. We can own and use HPs for sport. We've got some crappy lawmakers.

Shotguns are great for home defense. Not all crimes occur inside a home. The crime above appears to prove the need for more target practice and not a shotgun. My money would say the victim has not been on a range twice in any six month period. Being a gun owner does not mean being proficient with a gun.

Taking it one item at a time:

Being hit eight times indicates a larger caliber is needed and not more rounds. He was hitting his target but not getting immediate results.
Hitting the shoulders (assuming both since you used a plural form) means the shooter was not accurate with a gun. More rounds is not going to help in this but will send more missed rounds elsewhere.
People do not practice enough to know how to shoot.
A shotgun can also be used against a homeowner. It is a lot more different going around corners, walking through doorways and such with a shotgun in hand. A shotgun is a lever that can be grabbed by the barrel by an oppoenent. Call the police to a residence believed to have an intruder. Officers will respond and there will likely be a shotgun in their cars but they will not go in carrying them.

A shotgun makes a great gun outdoors for multiple assailants. The sight of it is intimidating. It is difficult to miss with a shotgun. They just require one to make more of a target in their use.

Just saying

I wouldn't be to hard on the home owner from my story. the deck was really stacked against him. The robbers came into his house holding one of his kids hostage, they were about to execute him (since they recognized him from TV) when he made the move for his gun (which was in a drawer). I don't know if he got hit before he began firing, and he was outnumbered.

I train as often as I can, but I'm not sure I could do much better than him in those circumstances.

Our laws also hindered him, if he'd used proper SD ammo he'd be looking at some serious legal issues (and would probably be sued by the surviving scumbags and their families).

About shotguns, I do understand that they aren't perfect. Like any weapon they've got strong points and weak ones. In the event of a break-in at my place, I don't plan to move around the house. I'll stay put, call 911, and be ready to pour as much buckshot as possible onto anything coming through the door. I'm not trained to clear a house.

I'm sorry if I strayed away from the main point of this thread. On the whole revolver/semiauto issue, I stand firmly in the revolver camp. I'm much more skilled with DA revolvers and I like the calibers they offer. My semiautos are mostly range toys.

 

[dwever]

One year later after the hard decision to ditch the revolvers, and it was definitely the right decision, particularly as long as I'm sworn.

 

[sipowicz]

One year later after the hard decision to ditch the revolvers, and it was definitely the right decision, particularly as long as I'm sworn.

Okay...we'll check back in 2014.

 

[Janet L.]

Women

This is why I own, practice with, and carry a BG 380.



Dress code isn't simply a matter of compulsion, implying that the only reason people wear clothing in which gun concealment is difficult is because they are forced to do so. Some of us choose not to wear large, loose clothing at any time; it's not our personal dress code. In the winter I tend to wear long sleeve T's and sweatshirts. In the summer I wear shorts and T-shirts, and I do not presently nor do I intend to begin wearing a second shirt over my T-shirt just so I can -stick a gun in a holster. Also, I try to wear clothing that actually fits. I don't care for big and baggy clothing.

Body size plays into this as well. I'm 5'11" and 160 pounds on my way back to 150. If you're large and shaped like a lumberjack with broad shoulders and a small waist, perhaps concealing a gun inside the waistband is easy. If you're fat (and my trip to the local gun show last Saturday told me that this is an *epidemic*) then perhaps you already wear gunny sacks designed to cover your rolls. (I kid. I kid.) In such a case, concealing a larger gun may be "not hard".

But when you look like I do ("narrow" doesn't adquately describe my shoulder width), concealing a larger gun isn't easy unless you wish to change your entire wardrobe, and I don't. I recognize that this is a personal choice, that I could change my wardrobe. But many of us chose a semiauto .380 simply because of the tradeoff between its size and the caliber. I only pocket carry. Period. I'd *rather* carry an M&P9c, but I'm unwilling to change my clothing so I can stick a gun in my waistband so that nobody will see it.

This dovetails well with the OP's explanation of why he stopped carrying revolvers for semiauto's. It was his *preference* and while there are pro's and con's on each side, he chose as he saw fit. So it is with concealment. If your highest priority is to conceal the largest possible gun, you will dress and act accordingly. For many of us, the priority is to have a gun in the highly unlikely event that we will need it, but not to change how we dress to accommodate the gun.

Regarding revolvers vs. semiauto's, I considered a revolver before buying my BG 380. In the end, I chose the semiauto because it is slightly thinner and that's what I wanted.

Now, for women, the baggy clothes often recommended for concealed carry by guys just are not socially acceptable.

A wheel gun is almost unavoidably a purse-carry only option - even a five shot cylinder is just too bulky. And for purse carry, why not pack something a bit bigger than a J frame?

A tiny auto like a Kel Tec P32 or an old Baby Browning is very easy to conceal. Not a lot of stopping power, but as my old mentor used to say, "It's better than bringing a knife to a gunfight."

I've come to think that the new generation of baby 9s like the Shield, Nano or P290 would be more suitable for on-body concealment than my 638. None of 'em pack that many more bangs than a J frame, 7 or 8, but as someone who isn't out looking for trouble (unlike a peace officer) that aught to be plenty.

 

[beemerphile]

That's why they make both kinds. I went the other direction. I'll change back when they come up with a stone reliable semi-auto that can be fired to empty from inside my jacket pocket.

 

[Alnamvet68]

Exactly; as much as I am fond of my rather extensive Colt 1911 collection, there isn't an auto loader made that one can fire from within the pocket.

 

[jimmyj]

A Glock? Seriously? Where in the world did you find one of those? You know that revolvers are much more common than those seamy autos. About the only ones that buys those things are the guvmint and the police.

Jimmy, you ain't done formed your own guvmint or opened up your own police department have you?

Five Sons and one Son-Inlaw are "Cops"
Wife and Daughter are "Shooters"

 

[moe l.]

I think it's pretty much whatever suits you best. I have a Glock 30 and I have a 627PC 2.625" barrel. The Glock holds 10 (I'm in CA) 45acp's and the 627 holds 8 357mag. For me, the Glock is in my nightstand drawer, for my daughter who has difficulty racking the slide, the 627 fits her needs much better.

 

[Donn]

I've got both, carry both. Wouldn't carry anything I wasn't confident in should the worst happen. One part of dwever's post that I'm curious about. He claims the wheelgun pulled at his pants. A full sized auto pistol with a hi-cap mag, spare hi-cap mags and a BUG doesn't? Just asking.

 

[GLV]

dwever,

sounds good to me, and as I often say, to each his/her own.

For me, normal carry is a couple of revolvers. I have and shoot semi auto handguns for fun, but my carry guns must work, and at 81, sometimes I manage to make auto pistols fail to work. Hand strength is lacking, clearing failures is more difficult, weakened wrist, arthritis, radiation treatments, etc. have made revolver much easier for me.

Enjoy your semi auto handguns, and remember to have--oh a gauge and a .30 caliber rifle handy.

 

[David LaPell]

Here in NY I have a feeling revolvers are going to be back in style, and among some of us they never went away. I have my 649 and my Model 27, which are both NY compliant under Cuomo's new edict. If I go with a semi auto, at least I can still get a 1911 .45 for all my needs.

 

[AZretired]

Correct. I am not saying to the revolver crowd on any level that they need to convert. I am simply reporting my own narrative topically within, "Concealed Carry and Self Defense."

No problem, that's your choice. During my LE career I went through much the same process. I actually got down to just one revolver for a time. But the truth be told, in 1990 when my department switched to auto, I did not want to and if they had let me I would have carried one my entire career. I retired on '06 and have reversed things I now own just 2 Glocks and many more S&W revolvers. I almost never carry or shoot the Glocks.