Got all my guns ready.....

[2152hq]

"...* It is perfectly legal to shoot your friend's gun at the range, etc. You can't borrow it over night, but you can shoot it, handle it, etc. if you have a pistol license. ..."

Watch out with this one.
It is not legal to shoot or even handle the registered handgun(s) of another permit holder.
A NYS Pistol Permit is not transferable to any other person and the handguns listed upon it are not legally transferable to any other person at any time for any reason (w/o proper Court or Judge approval).

That approval is usually in the form of a permit holder haveing a handgun(s) listed on their NYS permit, also listed on another persons NYS Permit at the same time.
That takes a notarized statement of mutual ownership and transfer in most Countys.
The County Clerks office or who ever takes care of the Pistol Permits in that juristiction then enters the gun or guns onto the other persons NYS Permit as well. It's not something you do yourself.

Husbands and wives often have such an arrangement,,,for better or worse sometimes. But is avoids the very situation of "Oh it's registered to me, but he was just shooting it a few times."
Plus in the event of a death, the second person still has ownership of the firearms.
Otherwise the registered handguns would go to Police Property for 1 yr max to either get sold to another permit holder, sold to or through an FFL, or they get destroyed as 'nuisance firearms after the 1 yrs time.

NYS Handgun Dealers License holders (separate license from an FFL) usually ask for a NYS P/P from prospective buyers before allowing them to handle any handgun for sale.
I see nothing in the law that states it is required, but I can't find anything either that says there is an exemption for a customer handling an (unregistered to them) handgun while shopping.

Very thin lines...invisable at times,,,and you can just bet who would not get the benefit of the doubt if a legal case arose out of it.

I worked in one large shop that for years allowed prospective customers to try out a handgun (live fire) before they bought it,,or not.
That practice was shut down by the NYSP and arrest threatened if continued.
The fact that the prospective customer was holding, shooting a handgun not registered to them and that they were outside of the establishment (sales floor) was enough to bring it down on them.
From that time forward, all prospective buyers had to show a valid NYS Permit or Permit application to handle any pistol.
(At that time the permit application still required you to buy a handgun to get your permit with. That requirement has now been dropped.)

Just be extra, extra careful in the Empire State.
They have no humor when dealing with these things.
Laws are confusing to be generous, and many times it's a case of let the court figure it out. That method leaves you on the hook one way or the other.

 

[Hillbilly77]

"...* It is perfectly legal to shoot your friend's gun at the range, etc. You can't borrow it over night, but you can shoot it, handle it, etc. if you have a pistol license. ..."

Watch out with this one.
It is not legal to shoot or even handle the registered handgun(s) of another permit holder.
A NYS Pistol Permit is not transferable to any other person and the handguns listed upon it are not legally transferable to any other person at any time for any reason (w/o proper Court or Judge approval).

That approval is usually in the form of a permit holder haveing a handgun(s) listed on their NYS permit, also listed on another persons NYS Permit at the same time.
That takes a notarized statement of mutual ownership and transfer in most Countys.
The County Clerks office or who ever takes care of the Pistol Permits in that juristiction then enters the gun or guns onto the other persons NYS Permit as well. It's not something you do yourself.

Husbands and wives often have such an arrangement,,,for better or worse sometimes. But is avoids the very situation of "Oh it's registered to me, but he was just shooting it a few times."
Plus in the event of a death, the second person still has ownership of the firearms.
Otherwise the registered handguns would go to Police Property for 1 yr max to either get sold to another permit holder, sold to or through an FFL, or they get destroyed as 'nuisance firearms after the 1 yrs time.

NYS Handgun Dealers License holders (separate license from an FFL) usually ask for a NYS P/P from prospective buyers before allowing them to handle any handgun for sale.
I see nothing in the law that states it is required, but I can't find anything either that says there is an exemption for a customer handling an (unregistered to them) handgun while shopping.

Very thin lines...invisable at times,,,and you can just bet who would not get the benefit of the doubt if a legal case arose out of it.

I worked in one large shop that for years allowed prospective customers to try out a handgun (live fire) before they bought it,,or not.
That practice was shut down by the NYSP and arrest threatened if continued.
The fact that the prospective customer was holding, shooting a handgun not registered to them and that they were outside of the establishment (sales floor) was enough to bring it down on them.
From that time forward, all prospective buyers had to show a valid NYS Permit or Permit application to handle any pistol.
(At that time the permit application still required you to buy a handgun to get your permit with. That requirement has now been dropped.)

Just be extra, extra careful in the Empire State.
They have no humor when dealing with these things.
Laws are confusing to be generous, and many times it's a case of let the court figure it out. That method leaves you on the hook one way or the other.

I was going by the information that the instructor gave at the mandatory safety course.
Also my county pistol clerk said that at a sanctioned shooting range, a person can legally handle and/or fire a handgun that is legally licensed to a permit holder.

These may be some of the gray areas of the law...
Funny how the more clarity they try to write into something, the more confusing it becomes.

You make a good point about not wanting to become a case study.

 

[kwselke]

I was going by the information that the instructor gave at the mandatory safety course.
Also my county pistol clerk said that at a sanctioned shooting range, a person can legally handle and/or fire a handgun that is legally licensed to a permit holder.

These may be some of the gray areas of the law...
Funny how the more clarity they try to write into something, the more confusing it becomes.

You make a good point about not wanting to become a case study.

It's really bad when the laws are so complex that the people trying to live in compliance of the laws cannot decide what is and is not legal.

It reminds me of the time when I had a discussion with an anti and I said, look at Mexico they have very strict gun laws there. This guy then said... I lived in Mexico for three years, they do not have gun violence there.

I said... What planet are you living on?

 

[BJoe]

Day-um! NYS just dropped off the map for me like Kalifornia.

Amen Zip. Years ago I visited both but NEVER again. I have no use for states that treat their law biding, tax paying citizens like prisoners, and their criminals, and illegals like first class flyers.

 

[OLDFED]

HR 218 & LEOSA

I don't see anything in the law that applies to anyone except civilian and military law enforcement officers.

 

[2152hq]

....
These may be some of the gray areas of the law...
Funny how the more clarity they try to write into something, the more confusing it becomes.

You make a good point about not wanting to become a case study.

Definetly gray areas,,very gray. It's very common to try someone elses pistol out at a range, handle one in a class, ect.
Then the 'letter of the law' is read and there is nothing there allowing it.
You ask yourself would common sense prevail or would the draconian thou shall not touch provision be enforced should an incident be observed.
Hard to figure out and no one really wants to be the one to find out.

One thing's for sure about NY State,,
If own a handgun and you're planning on going there, it's a lot like dying...'cause you can't take it with you.

 

[Hillbilly77]

NYS Penal Law, section 265.20 - Exemptions.

Sections 7a & 7b read as follows:

7-a. Possession and use, at an indoor or outdoor pistol range located
in or on premises owned or occupied by a duly incorporated organization
organized for conservation purposes or to foster proficiency in small
arms or at a target pistol shooting competition under the auspices of or
approved by the national rifle association for the purpose of loading
and firing the same, by a person duly licensed to possess a pistol or
revolver pursuant to section 400.00 or 400.01 of this chapter of a
pistol or revolver duly so licensed to another person who is present at
the time.
7-b. Possession and use, at an indoor or outdoor pistol range located
in or on premises owned or occupied by a duly incorporated organization
organized for conservation purposes or to foster proficiency in small
arms or at a target pistol shooting competition under the auspices of or
approved by the national rifle association for the purpose of loading
and firing the same, by a person who has applied for a license to
possess a pistol or revolver and pre-license possession of same pursuant
to section 400.00 or 400.01 of this chapter, who has not been previously
denied a license, been previously convicted of a felony or serious
offense, and who does not appear to be, or pose a threat to be, a danger
to himself or to others, and who has been approved for possession and
use herein in accordance with section 400.00 or 400.01 of this chapter;
provided however, that such possession shall be of a pistol or revolver
duly licensed to and shall be used under the supervision, guidance and
instruction of, a person specified in paragraph seven of this
subdivision and provided further that such possession and use be within
the jurisdiction of the licensing officer with whom the person has made
application therefor or within the jurisdiction of the superintendent of
state police in the case of a retired sworn member of the division of
state police who has made an application pursuant to section 400.01 of
this chapter.

If anybody cares to translate into English, by all means.
I read it to mean that a non-licensee can legally handle and/or fire a handgun at a range.

 

[ladder13]

 

[ladder13]

Wow -i just go back and to see all the replies.
Think i want to go north ? NOT !!!
To answer all of you --YES ! My life is over........
I'm trying to do the right thing and get all my guns legal. That's one sport [guns] that i really love to do, is shoot. 2 nd. is boating and fishing. I must of read the N.Y. gun act --4 x in 24 hours and many times before that. Lots of the guys here--SW forum gave me great info.about what -were to look for. One guy in Long Island hook me up were i can have all my guns shipped at a great price --One FFL charge...--All Legal...... I want to thank everyone here at SW --Thank You !!!!!

What would Mikey do? Seriously now. I'd buy a nice boat and commute between Delaware and the Hamptons.
I have a friend who lives in DE, he's trapped like a rat, NJ to the north, MD to the south. His only escape is thru PA, or via the Atlantic.

 

[Hillbilly77]

I have a friend who lives in DE, he's trapped like a rat, NJ to the north, MD to the south. His only escape is thru PA, or via the Atlantic.

At this point, an escape to PA doesn't sound bad at all!

 

[Old TexMex]

It's really bad when the laws are so complex that the people trying to live in compliance of the laws cannot decide what is and is not legal.

It reminds me of the time when I had a discussion with an anti and I said, look at Mexico they have very strict gun laws there. This guy then said... I lived in Mexico for three years, they do not have gun violence there.

I said... What planet are you living on?

I think I've met the same clown.
He tells me how good the medical system is there, too.

 

[BigBill]

If I had good health I'd move to a state where I could buy and own every freaking ak 47 made. Any state were if I owned ak 47's they could roam free.

I just sold some of my collection of battle rifles so I wouldn't have to register them as assault rifles. My rifles will never assault anyone while there in my possession.
But I used the money towards s&w n frame revolvers. After all there are no assault revolvers.

 

[steelslaver]

Home home on the range, where guns and their owners roam free.

Montana.

Only permit is a CC and you only need a CC permit if you carry concealed upon your person in town or you want to buy guns without the phone call. Apply for CC on Monday and it should be ready by Friday. Gun under the seat or in the glove compartment? No permit needed. Walking the dog outside the city limits and you have a pistol concealed on your person. No permit need. Have 50 pistols. Good man. Have an AK and an AR and a bunch of 20 or 30 round mags. Good. Want a 50bmg. Fork over the money and its yours. No waiting. Oh yea. hardly any crime. Imagine that.

Why would you move to NY or CA. Just sin a lot and go to same thing

 

[2152hq]

NYS Penal Law, section 265.20 - Exemptions.

Sections 7a & 7b read as follows:



If anybody cares to translate into English, by all means.
I read it to mean that a non-licensee can legally handle and/or fire a handgun at a range.

It gives 2 exemptions for persons to handle and shoot a handgun that is not registered to them on a NYS P/P.
There are 2 exemptions here.

7a is for another NYS P/P holder..

7a says that if you have a NYS P/P you can handle and shoot another NYS P/P holders registered handgun while the both of you are at:
-An NRA sanctioned pistol match
-Or at a range located:
in or on premises owned or occupied by a duly incorporated organization
organized for conservation purposes or to foster proficiency in small
arms.

Backyard ranges and shooting rats at the dump doesn't qualify.
Showing the new purchase to a friend at the house doesn't count even though he has a NYS Permit as well as you.

Very narrow and precise deffinition of what a 'Range' is, who owns it and what the organization must be in business for.


7b exemption is for a NYS P/P Applicant..

7b Says the same as above but allows that one of the persons in the mix to be a NYS P/P Applicant instead of both being NYS Permit holders.
In this provision, the P/P applicant cannot be someone that has been refused a NYS P/P in the past (reapplying).
This use of the handgun must take place in the same licensing district (County generally) as where the applicant has submitted their NYS P/P application. (Retired NYSP get a (big!)break in that if they are the applicant here, this can take place anywhere in NYS as their licensing officer will be the Supt of NYSP. Not a big deal as the permit when issued will be good for the entire State anyway (except for NYC of course)

Applicant cannot have had a felony conviction of course. Must not present a danger to themselves and others, yada, yada,,
The other language is the same about the Range being on the premises of an legally incorported organization (duly incorporated organization) with their goal(s) being conservation and/or fostering small arms proficiency.
An NRA sanctioned Pistol Match is again also an allowable time and place.
Again, not while shooting sticks on the creek bank or cans off the stump behind the barn. Only at those very specific & defined locations.

No where does it give permission for anyone that does not have a NYS P/P to handle or shoot a handgun registered to another NYS P/P holder.
Just the very narrow allowances for another P/P holder/applicant at certain defined 'Ranges' and NRA matches.

There's no common sense to any of it of course.

 

[S&W45Colt]

The **** of it is that New York State is second to none for beautiful countryside, scenery, and natural resources.
We have all 4 seasons with few extremes, and we are an outdoorsman's paradise.

If not for the laws and political scene, NY would be utopia on earth.

You forgot the removal of NYC and Albany from the state. Then it would be a great place to live.

 

[Hillbilly77]

You forgot the removal of NYC and Albany from the state. Then it would be a great place to live.

That was covered under the broad spectrum of "laws and political scene".


All in favor of NYC breaking away and becoming the 51st state?

Aye!

 

[S&W45Colt]

That was covered under the broad spectrum of "laws and political scene".


All in favor of NYC breaking away and becoming the 51st state?

Aye!

Can we make it a territory like Guam instead??

 

[duppie]

I'm laughing my *** off reading this thread.....We have the OP knowingly inciting nothing less that a free for all of every one who ever resided in a state where gun rights are still logical....
But what's really humorous is all the unbridled chest beating and tripping over each other just to best the previous poster....With the average forum age of maybe.......60? it's not only funny but refreshing all at the same time.
I love you guys.......

 

[BTHG]

This is our judge's take on it:


Most new licenses have the above restrictions, but our judge is pretty pro-gun and he is fair, so if you can show a good reason, he will issue an unrestricted license.

________________________




We can walk into our pistol office (no appointment needed) and immediately get an amendment. That means in our county we can buy a gun, add it to our license, and go pick it up on the same day.

I traded guns with a guy in a neighboring county, and we had to wait about 4 business days for his pistol office to shuffle their paperwork.

My friends dad got me into target shooting and had hunting/target/camping/hiking listed on his Mass LTC. He would wear hiking boots whenever he had a gun on him since he was going "hiking". Our permits vary by city here in Massachusetts and he was first in this area to get an "all lawfull purposes" LTC. He tried for years and would write 4 page letters explaining the confusing laws.

 

[Straightshooter2]

When over all my guns that are going up to N.Y. when we move. Ordered 10 round mag clip for all my 9 mm. guns. I'm only taking 6 guns up with me. Wilson Combat X-tac--Sig 226x6L1-
SW 41-SW rev 686 4in. Ruger SP101 2 and 4 in. The rest of my guns i'm wrapping up for Christmas and all my kids and there mate are getting guns for Christmas !!!!!

I'm sorry to hear that. How many years did the judge give you in New York and is there any chance for parole?

CW

 

[Frank46]

Sir, allow me to extend my condolences and commiserations you are going to need them. I used to live in Jamaica,NY and then on Long Island. That was in 1995 when I got on the great big bird of happiness and flew to Louisiana. And also had a NYC target permit. I wouldn't move back there even if I won a multi million dollar lottery and they paid all the taxes. Your problem is where to keep your toys while waiting for a permit to have them is in your hand. And heaven forbid they ask you where these toys are that you are wanting to get on your license. Last I heard in NYC you had to physically bring them in so that they can verify that those toys are the ones (by serial number and caliber) belonging to you. You would be better off having a dealer you trust in your present state hold them for you while going through the permitting process and then going through a NY dealer for the ffl transfer. Frank

 

[steelslaver]

Can we make it a territory like Guam instead??

Actually maybe we should just kick some of the really bad states out. LOL

I have been to New York state and most of it is a great place, Same with many parts of CA, once you get away from the big cities. Face it the problem isn't the states, its the cities. Take any city of a million or more and it will have a murder rate far higher than any combination of rural counties that have a combine population of a million. Can't stick that many rats in a small cage and not expect a bunch of bad behavior.

Put a fence around all the big cities. Keep them and their laws in or me out, either works for me. LOL

 

[tlay]

S&W357, it would be really hard for me but I would be willing to hold your guns for you while you are getting settled. I would clean them, caress them, hold them, and even shoot them. Some of us will go to great sacrifices for our fellow S&W members.

 

[Engineer1911]

I am so happy I failed that job interview in Cortland(?), NY long, long ago in a distant galaxy.