Great target loads with lead 357 / 38

[Super Dave]

Hi guys,

The Zero brand 158 grain SWC is turning out to be my favorite bullet. It's been very accurate in every gun I've tried it in. Much more accurate than the cast bullets I've tried in the past. I ordered another few thousand tonight.

I finally found a 38 special load that is super accurate in my .357. See the first target on the left. 1.35" at 50 yards. Sweet.

I also did some testing with my 686 and some lighter .357 loads. I think the groups would have been tighter if I had a red dot on the gun.

 

[Rafter-S]

Are you using 357 mag brass or 38 special brass? Also, with the 3.9 gr of HP-38, what do you think is the approximate velocity?

 

[rwsmith]

Sweet...

That is INDEED sweet.

 

[Super Dave]

Thanks!

The 3.9 load is in 38 special cases. The rest are in 357.

My Speer manual lists the following velocities for HP38 / 158 lead / 38 special / 6" model 14:
Min load: 3.6 = 756 fps
Max load: 4.1 = 855 fps

 

[Rafter-S]

Have you tried Bullseye powder? If so, how did it group compared to HP-38? I ask because I've always gotten my best groups at those velocities from Bullseye...but I've never tried HP-38.

 

[Super Dave]

Sorry, I have not tried these bullets with Bullseye. I bet it would work very well.

 

[cellllman]

Thanks for the info! I'm trying HP-38 for the first time and looking for load data for 9mm, 38 spl, 40 S&W and 45 ACP. It is not a clear picture trying to find this! Hodgdon lists 38 spl 158 SWC at 3.1-3.7. Guess they are being careful? Did you try other weights in the 38 spl?

 

[Super Dave]

Hi. I tested 3.7, 3.9 and 4.1 gr HP38. 3.7 was not as accurate. 4.1 was accurate but so was 3.9. So I'm going with the lightest load that is accurate.

 

[Nick B]

Any leading with those swaged bullets ?

 

[Super Dave]

Not that I can tell. I've cleaned the barrels and they look good.
Dave

 

[Troystat]

Very nice, at first I thought your targets said 5 yards and I was not that impressed but at 50 yards that is nice.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

One of my two favorite.38 Special loads is a 158gr LSWC bullet over 4.0gr W231/HP-38. It is accurate in any 38/357 I have shot them in. Your 3.9gr load seems like the one I shoot. Just for kicks try 4.0gr next time ad see what you get.

 

[BC38]

Where do you get Zero brand bullets? What is their Brinnell hardness rating? I went to their website and they say they sell to distributors only (?)

 

[Super Dave]

One of my two favorite.38 Special loads is a 158gr LSWC bullet over 4.0gr W231/HP-38. It is accurate in any 38/357 I have shot them in. Your 3.9gr load seems like the one I shoot. Just for kicks try 4.0gr next time ad see what you get.

Right, I did try your load in the past with a few different cast bullets and never found good accuracy. I gave up on lead 158 grain until I heard about the Bullseye crowd using the Zeros. I will give the 4.0 gr a try again.

I'm purchasing from Zeros distribution branch of their company:
Roze Distribution: 38 SPECIAL (.357 DIAMETER)

I'm not sure of the hardness but they are softer and not meant to be pushed fast. As mentioned, 4.0 gr of HP38 is the upper end.
Take care,
Dave

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Dave, if the bullet is a good fit in your barrel you can push them a lot harder than you think. 4.0gr W231 install that stout a load anyway and not the limit for softer lead bullets in the .38 Special.

I know the Zero bullets are very good. I'm just curious, did you try either or both the Speer or Hornady swaged bullets?
38 Caliber .358 Diameter 158 Grain Semi Wad Cutter HP Lead Pistol 300 Count by HORNADY AMMUNITION AND BULLETS
38 Caliber .358 Diameter 158 Grain Semi Wad Cutter Hollow Point 500 Count by SPEER BULLETS

 

[Wise_A]

Likely around 12 BHN, which is really a nominal hardness for .38 Spl.

Zero gets used a lot by BE guys, but so much of what they do as a group is more voodoo and superstition than science. Magnus, Penn, Dardas, etc, all see heavy use, but I think it's more to do with a few high-profile guys picking one or two brands, and everyone else gravitating to whatever they do.

I would also add that a many serious shooters also sort their bullets on purchase. First, they're inspected for imperfections (seams, excessive pour marks in cast bullets, imperfect bullet lube, dings and dent, etc). Anything that fails gets tossed in the Practice'n'Plinking bucket.

With all of the irregulars sorted out, the bullets are then weighed and sorted into .1-.2 grain increments. All of these get used, but they get loaded and marked in lots.

Anyways, 158 LSWCs and 148 WCs are all I use. I've no use for anything else for target work. I have a pound of HP-38, I have to try it out, but I've gotten superb results with BE and WST in the past.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Wise, the Zero bullets are swaged so they are probably softer than 12 BHN and there will be no pour marks.

 

[Wise_A]

I am very much aware of that. That's why I used the phrase "excessive pour marks in cast bullets" when I was describing the bullet sort process. Because a swaged bullet will obviously not have a pour mark.

I don't think they'd be much softer than 12 BHN (although they're not actually rated by hardness). Maybe as light as 10. Realistically, there's not a huge difference between a true softcast and a swaged bullet.

The problem is that most casters making bullets just use one alloy for all the bullets they make, usually in the 16-18 BHN range. So you get the same hardness whether you're ordering a .430 for your .44 Mag or a .358 for your .38 Spl, which gives cast bullets a bad rap. A dead giveaway is if the manufacturer doesn't specify a hardness.

And of course, plenty of people buy softcast lead or swaged, attempt to load them hot, and then complain endlessly when their bores lead up.

 

[Qc Pistolero]

Normally,swaged bullets rate around 8 max on BHN scale.You can have harder than 8BHN swaged bullets but then,the alloy would be more expensive and harder on tools to extrude(or swage,swaging meaning there is some extrusion to get rid of the excess weight of the core so as to bring all bullets to an almost uniform weight)and more expensive to buy.BHN12 on a relative scale for swaged bullets is pretty hard.
This being said,bullet diameter relative to cylinder diam or forcing cone diam(in a semi-auto)is as if not most important as bullet hardness in the fact that it will or won't lead the barrel.
Just my findings and opinion but willing to discuss it.
Qc

 

[cowboy4evr]

Qc Pistolero , you are absolutely correct . The " fit " is more important than the hardness has been my experience . My fiancé shoots the 358- TL158 gr RN bullet out of the Lee mold . I cast with about whatever I have for lead and water quench . I give them one coat of alox with some Johnsons paste wax mixed in , about 50-50 after sizing to .358 and set them on top of 4.5grs of Ramshot Zip . I had to open up the cylinder throats on her 586 to match the groove diameter of barrel . Now she has literally what appears to be " zero ' leading problems after shooting up to 100 rounds in one session . The inside of the barrel just shines . That load is a little more than what is listed but it tightened up the groups from 4.2 grs.