"Gun possession NOT a fundamental right" - Sotomayor

I have to say she's right on that score.
Can you state the definition of a fundamental right versus a right?

Let me preface this by saying I'm in no way a Constitutional scholar, nor an attorney. Having read a little about the "Founding Fathers", it seems that they had an understanding that there were some things so obvious and "fundamental", that they really didn't need saying. It speaks to their wisdom snd foresight that the enumerated these ideas anyway, just in case people forgot, or the government in power decided that some "rights" weren't convenient or expedient.

To me, a "right" is something granted by someone. For example, if you ask, and I agree, you would have a right to hunt on my property. That agreement, specifically your "right" to hunt there may be revoked by me at any time, without just cause or reason, and with no means of recourse or redress on your part. You would have to ask for the right to hunt there, and it could be refused.

A "fundamental right" seems to be something that just is. Not needing to be granted by anybody, and irrevocable by anybody without just cause. I think "inalienable rights" such as "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness" fall into this catagory. I would also place the "Right of the People to keep and bear arms..." into this catagory.
 
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You need to look at the link that Model 657 posted on the last page. That explains it pretty well.
It should be no surprise that a complex area like law would develop a specialized vocabulary. Imagine someone totally unfamiliar with guns trying to navigate: cheek weld (is that an adhesive?), stock, meplat, lands and grooves, galling, etc etc. Without specific knowledge of the field someone would throw terms around without any understanding of what he was talking about. Same too with law.
 
The US Court of Appeals in Gomez held that self-defense, and use of a gun to effect that self-defense, is a fundamental right:

United States v. Gomez, 81 F.3d 846 (9th Cir. 1996)

The Second Amendment embodies the right to defend oneself and one's home against physical attack -- particularly if a citizen shows specifically that organs of government charged with providing protection are unable or unwilling to do so.

Steven Paul Gomez, a convicted felon, was offered a large sum of money and drugs by one Imran Mir to kill witnesses who were expected to testify against Mir in a drug case. With no expectation of any reward Gomez notified authorities of this offer and agreed to help federal agents gather evidence against Mir. Once the government thought it had enough evidence against Mir, it gave Gomez $2,500.00 and sent him on his way.

The following day the Justice Department filed an indictment against Imran Mir which disclosed Gomez's full and true name. However, the Justice Department never bothered to tell Gomez that his identity had been revealed.

Gomez soon found out -- after he began receiving death threats, and was accosted by a man with a gun. Gomez begged the authorities to take him into protective custody, to no avail.

Gomez literally began running for his life, staying at friends' houses for short spells or living on the streets and sleeping in parks. He resorted to telling his parole agent that he was using illegal drugs to be able to see him. As a result he was sent back to jail for violating parole. While in jail he received a written death threat. Shortly after his release, one of Gomez's friends received a death threat meant for him. In the words of the U.S. Court of Appeals, "In fear for his life and not knowing what else to do, Gomez made a fateful decision: He took possession of a twelve-guage shotgun that had been stored at a friend's house." 81 F.3d at 849

At about this time federal authorities determined that they still needed Gomez's help against Mir and went looking for him. When two federal agents tried to serve Gomez with a subpoena they found him at a friend's house carrying the shotgun. They drew their sidearms and ordered Gomez to put up his hands. He ran into the house, discarded the shotgun, and ran away. The shotgun was found during a search of the house and Gomez was taken into custody the next day.

Gomez had been in possession of the shotgun for two days.

Gomez was indicted on two counts of violating 18 U.S.C. Sec. 922(g)(1); one each for possession of the shotgun and shotgun ammunition. Before his trial date, Gomez's attorney motioned the district court for permission to introduce evidence showing that his possession of the shotgun was justified. The motion was denied, and Gomez pleaded guilty to one count, reserving his right to appeal the district court's denial of his motion.
Gomez argued successfully on appeal that he should have been able to present evidence of death threats in order to make out a case that his possession of the shotgun was justified either by the defenses of duress or necessity.

In doing so, the U.S. Court of Appeals held that the federal statute under which Gomez was charged:

[M]ight not pass constitutional muster were it not subject to a justification defense. The Second Amendment embodies the right to defend oneself and one's home against physical attack. . . . . .

In a modern society, the right to armed self-defense has become attenuated as we rely almost exclusively on organized societal responses, such as the police, to protect us from harm. . . . . .

The possession of firearms may therefore be regulated, even prohibited, because we are "compensated" for the loss of that right by the availability of organized societal protection. The tradeoff becomes more dubious, however, when a citizen makes a particularized showing that the organs of government charged with providing that protection are unwilling or unable to do so. . . . .

At that point, the Second Amendment might trump a statute prohibiting the ownership or possession of weapons that would be perfectly constitutional under ordinary circumstances. 81 F.3d at 850, n.7 (emp. added)

2amd10
 
And while some folks may say we haven't lost anything, because one liberal is replacing another, I have to disagree. If we're not gaining something, we're losing. And we'll continue to lose, in one way or another, as long as Obama is in the White House.

Misty, you hit the nail square on the head, and you said it in plain English without alot of political jargon.

The consertative base in this country needs to wake up and see that we will continue to lose for the remainder of the boy from kenya's term in office. Of course, having senators and reps who continue to bend over and give him what he wants makes the fight all that much harder.

Dan
 
Barbc, I didn't use the quote button, your post was too long for that IMO, but I'd like to compliment you on a excellent piece of research. This I got! Shows how convoluted the lawyers have made the law. The right to self defense which is not in the Constitution in so many words is apparently a fundamental right, while the most efficient means to do so, that can easily found in the Constitution as the 2A is said not to be a fundamental right. And these lawyers want us to have faith in them!? Bob the butcher was right!
 
It seems as all we are doing is barking at the moon. It may be entertaining, but it won't change anything.

Here's how I see it:

Fact...She is going to the Supreme Court. They have the votes.

Fact...She is replacing one of the most liberal justices of all time. I doubt it will be a wash, because Sonia just may surprise some people on how she views certain issues. Abortion for example. Time will tell.

Fact...The Republicans should have embraced her from the beginning (assuming they understood my first two points) and at least they would have looked good to the Latino voters. We just may need them some day. Yet again, they came down on the wrong side of the fence. All for NOTHING!!!

Ok, that last one is just my opinion, not really a fact.
 
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injecting reality on a gun board will get you in trouble
Which again reminds me of the splendid idea...

Why not set up USA as the country for right wing conservatives who appreciate individual freedom and responsibility, and Europe as the place for left wing liberals who appreciate collectivism.

If someone is not happy with the politics of his/her country, he/she could relocate to a happier country across the Atlantic.

What is happening now, too many Americans are making the US what Europe already is: heavily taxed, little protection of individual freedoms, little requirement for individual responsibility, little incentives for entrepreneurship, large percentage of work force in the public sector, unrealistic peace ideals which expose the whole country to being overrun again, no right to self defense, minimal sentences for property and violent crime, government meddling in even the smallest details of personal choices...

Why don't all American liberals just move over to Europe, we already have you dream society here. And Obama is super popular here, too.
 
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Sotomayor?

Email your congressman...swamp them with emails, calls and letters. Complaining on this site is nice but worthless.
I guess it depends on how you spell "fundamental". Maybe Bill Clinton could help out.:eek:
 
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