Gun safe purchase advice?

[tomtheturner]

Going back to Josy Wales posting: I ended up building a safe room. I was able to do all the work myself, so the cost came out to be very reasonable. Much less than the cost of a good large safe. I will admit that what I ended up with is not as secure as a high-end safe, but it would be very very difficult to breach. You would need a lot of time, and some good tools. In addition, at the same time that I built this I upgraded the security to my house, which I feel is just as important, if not more so, than any "safe" that you decide on.

There are some real pluses to a safe room. I am able to put all my gun related items in it, guns, ammo, reloading supplies, hunting trophies . . . There is no evidence of firearms outside the "room." It is 120 square feet, and it includes four gun cabinets, four 48" X 18" by 84" tall shelving units, a 8' long X 18" wide reloading bench, and some wall cabinets above the bench.

I ended up saving a considerable amount of money, I have a pretty secure set-up, people that come into my home, like servicemen, have no idea that there is anything firearm related there, and everything is in one organized place.

Best Wishes,
Tom

 

[Kanewpadle]

What if you have a S&G elect.[battery] combo push button -. Do i have to worry ? What i should ask -how long does the battery last ?

Battery life depends on use. The problem is, every single digital lock I have seen uses parts made in China. That includes S&G. Replace the battery once a year with normal use.

Most of the time the solenoid quits working and sometimes it's the circuit board.

Sometimes the lock with start having problems working correctly. Sometimes they fail without warning.

S&G had been the standard as far as mechanical locks for a very long time.

For the most part digital locks used at home don't get used as frequently than at a business and they hold up quite well in most cases.

I've replaced them after several years of use and less than a year of use.

When comparing mechanical locks with digital, the only advantage is ease of use with the digital. I'm not willing to trust the digital lock because when I need in I need in now. And I've seen mechanical locks that have lasted over 80 years.

In some cases the digital makes more sense. Some people can't remember the dial sequence.

 

[ladder13]

Good stuff, I'm watching this one as I'm looking for a safe myself. Probably 2 somewhat smaller ones, as the "get one bigger than you need" mantra doesn't work for me. The logistics of getting it into, and out of, my house preclude that.
I just upgraded my alarm system with a cell phone dialer in case the hardwire gets cut. Now I find out that some thieves have resorted to cell phone jammers. These guys are very up on the technology, why don't they just get regular jobs.

 

[josywales]

tomtheturner makes an excellent addition to my post. The addition of a security system, the concealment of the room as I wrote about, and anything else you can think of to buy time. The longer it take a thief to get in, the better thance they will fail or leave. They want to be in and out. In fact, the tools that I keep arond that would help break in to the saferoom, are locked in an older gun locker, in the garage. So, if they want to use my tools, it will take a little time to get those as well. Tick tock, tick tock.

I would also submit that if you follow FEMA's directions, your saferoom will be as secure, if not better, than some of the most expensive safes being discussed. Extreme heat will melt guns in those safes and because of their size it won't take long for them to become an oven. Once I complete my room, it's an area of 14 feet x 12 feet and it will take a lot longer for that room to become an oven. In fact, I'm planning on an exhaust fan, so I can clean guns and still breath! However, that fan, with a temperature sensor, will also kick on and draw hot air out of that room, again, buying time against the fire.

Honestly, my biggest concern is water from above. As I design the ceiling to FEMA specs, I'm now thinking through caulking the edge of the ceiling and giving it a slight pitch. You can't stop water, especially water blasting from a firehose on to the floor above. If I can pitch the ceiling, collect the water, and force that water through my outside wall into the yard, I should be good. If a gun safe is water proof, the water outside the safe is still gathering and coupled with the heat it creates an extremely humid environment that will still rust the guns. Although they were outside a safe, i saw pictures of the Lone Star Gun shop in Texas, after a fire ran for only 15 minutes. Every gun in the store had rusted, due to the water.

I have thought about fire suppression, but my meager accumulation of guns does not warrant that. In fact, unless it were a foam suppression, I think adding water to the heat of the fire will ruin the guns anyway. My room, while protecting my guns, is almost more about the convenience of being able to walk in and out, not bang guns around in a safe, and being able to just drop a range back in the room and clean em' up later. I still have a large safe that I inherited and any "family" guns that can't be replaced would still go in their, inside the room.

 

[Fishslayer]

Pick a model bigger than you think you will ever need and then, buy one bigger than that.

^^^ This, totally. Take the manufacturer's claim and divide by two. That's how many real long guns will fit.

The selling point for ours was the fire protection and the fact that they're made right up the freeway from us and our LGS carried them. Paid a lot more than Turner's was selling different models for but where we live fire is a real concern. If our house burns down I want a reasonable chance of my guns (and other stuff) surviving.

 

[TDC]

Thanks for the replies, ladder13. josiewales, and Fishslayer! Every opinion and user experience with security and potential fire damage isssues is useful and appreciated here....

Whatever security combination I settle on is going to be dedicated to handguns so the size issue of the safe doesn't seem to be quite so important. I can stack a lot of handguns in a safe size designated for 30 to 50 long guns and handguns....

I guess we all have to accept the premise that "if there's a will - there's a way" for thieves to break into anything they are eventually going to succeed. If they have the time, tools and expertise they can find a way to breach almost any security.

We all have to do the best we can to protect what we've worked so hard for....

 

[josywales]

No doubt. there are also some very reasonable insurance rates out there. 35 cents for every $100 in gun value. So @ $125 per year for $35,000 in coverage. That's not bad. They have lower plans and much higher plans, but that gives you an idea. Some require no appraisal, unless there is one item worth $50,000 or more. The reason I'll take one of these policies is that they are not connected at all to my home owner's. Also, some of these policies cover almost all collectibles. So trains, coins, jewelry, etc.

Fire, thieves, water, etc. can all, eventually get to what you have. If I find the above rates to be accurate, I find it hard to resist this coverage.

I'm stilling shopping, but here are some companies:

https://www.historicfirearms.com/?page_id=20

Collectibles Insurance - Protecting Books, Stamps, Antiques and other Rare and Vintage collections in Baltimore, Maryland


Core-Vens Insurance  1-800-796-9907

 

[potthawg]

Browning Medallion Series

I needed more shelf room than long gun room so I had the folks at Browning order mine this way. It will convert back to uber long gun capacity by simply switching the shelves back to the supplied original equipment.
Great advice on buying bigger than you think you'll need. When you get close to max capacity you will have a devil of a time not dinging your guns up when removing or putting them in.

I added the back mirror and LED lighting and it really enhances the use and looks of the safe.

 

[mtelkhntr]

Sure doesn't look like many fans of the Browning safe but my 25 year old Browning (Tall/Wide) has served me well. IIRC weight was over 1,500#.

 

[Ramlock]

I've decided on Liberty.

A Presendential 40 for my guns (~$5K). Due to annual cost I've decided not to insure the guns. I'll amortize the cost of the safe in three years. Fitting the available space is key and it will go into the house.

A Colonial 50 for my ammo (~$2K). Volume is the big thing here. It will go in the garage.

The strength of construction and the fire rating are what convinced me.

+1 here, after giving up on a dealer in AZ delivering a custom Fort Knox back in the spring panic, I found it to be a blessing after looking into Liberty. After much research recently, I have found Liberty to be the best value when considering their top of the line safes (Presidential / National regarding fire and security features and 7ga body) I went into a local dealer last week wanting to order a custom Presidential but they made me a better deal on a National 50 gun they had in stock which comes with the fancy gloss paint), it to has the 2.5 hour fire rating and 26 1.5 inch active bolts. Just delivered today!!!see pics The delivery guys broke the electrical plastic bulkhead piece on back so I can't anchor it down until that replacement part gets to me.

 

[Dominus_Lex]

I have two safes with digital locks and have never had a problem with these locks. A previous mechanical safe required many attempts to - up to 30 so I prefer the digital. I've never met anyone with FIRST hand difficulty with a digital.
Pay the small additional amount and get a 6 foot tall safe. And, if you have a color choice, get white or ivory. People will think it is a refrigerator.

My Wife has the top shelf of one of the safes. Women love safes and she in there a couple times a week. That access has made my gun hobby more acceptable to her.

Say Hello to someone with first hand bad history with a electronic lock.... it will open (hopefully) after 5 or 6 attempts.... Now and then it just does not open....

 

[andyarmored]

Do NOT get an electronic lock When it dies you will be looking at a MAJOR expense to get your safe opened. Get a Sgt. and Greenleaf combo lock. I have two Cannon safes. They are kind of the Chevrolet of the safe world. They are not high end of done in a fancy paint job, but they are adequate for my purpose. As noted above, buy one at least one notch bigger than you think you will need. Be sure to bolt that sucker down.

I have an electronic lock on mine, you have access to the battery on the keypad. If the battery dies, it won't open until a new one is put in (so bad guys can't just remove the battery and open the safe). Once the battery is in place it opens with whatever combination that programmed into it. It has a memory chip so it won't reset to factory combo when the battery is removed. No locksmith needed.

 

[Farmer17]

Keep a few things in mind. A torch and a little bity accetylene tank can cut a great big hole in a 1/4" steel gun safe a couple of minutes. A gasoline powered circular saw can also cut up a safe in a short periord of time. Some people might be better off with a cheap safe bolted down and spend the rest of the money on a big dog and a good monitored alarm system.

 

[josywales]

Torches? We don't need no stinking torches!

Last week, two robbers drove a truck through the door of a jewelry store. Hook chains to the safe, and dragged it into the street. Then, they pullled up with a front end loader, lifted the safe, and drove off.

Snow plows, trucks, etc. are everywhere lately, so they drew no attention. Literally 2 minutes and 2 million dollars. I have heard of this with residential safes as well. One guy posted pictures of a safe that has been sitting at the bottom of a revine for years, after thieves had drug it from a house, opened it, then dumped it.

I bought my insurance last week. At the riks of sounding like an insurance commercial, I am so RELIEVED! I don't have a lot to insure, but just knowing that if water, fire, or theft occur, I don't have to battle with my home owner's policy. Fires ruin guns while they are in the safe and regadless of fire rating, the heat/moisture will also ruin them, even if the water doesn't get inside the safe. The problem owner's would have is convincing an inurance company of the damage, since the guns might look "OK".

I went with Historic Firearms - Eastern Insurance. $.35 cents per $100 of value. My safe weights over 1,400 pounds and the double doors are insulated, weighing 250 pounds each. I bought the safe for the cost of moving it, so it was a great deal. Otherwise, I would just get a decent safe and insure the entire lot! I have a full alarm system that dials out, but I count on that mostly for when the family is home. I plan on building a gun/safe room, but that's mostly becuase I'm tired of playing Rubek's Cube to get to certain guns.

BTW, as I write this, my sump pump is running...

EDIT: I should add that Historic covers model trains, fishing gear, holsters, magazines, scopes, cases, etc., etc. So, if you don't have $35,000 in guns. Take a look around your sports rooms, with calculator in hand, and see how fast it adds up!