Gun Storage Safety

[whw]

Hello All,
Anytime I am separated from my gun, I feel compelled to make sure it is unloaded and locked in a safe. This requires me to load, and unload, several times a day.
This method makes carrying a semi auto time consuming and difficult due to the concern with bullet set back. I tire quickly of having to keep track of which bullet has already been cycled, and where it resides in the "stack" inside the magazine.
For this reason alone, I find myself using the revolver more frequently for concealed carry. It is easy to make safe and doesn't require any time, effort or worry associated with set back.
I would appreciate everyone's thoughts as to whether my safety procedures are over the top, or I am too worried about set back. At this point, I am carrying two revolvers with the hope that I will not need more than 10 rounds of .38 +p.
Thanks for your input.

whw

 

[BarbC]

I don't know your home situation. We don't have kids at home and there's just the two of us so I'll throw mine into the kitchen cabinet, loaded and in the holster.

 

[jdkno]

Out of curiosity. What are you doing that requires you to be seperated from your gun multiple times a day?

Its hard to tell if you are being over the top without knowing the circumstances.

 

[whw]

Out of curiosity. What are you doing that requires you to be seperated from your gun multiple times a day?

Its hard to tell if you are being over the top without knowing the circumstances.

On an average day the following gets in the way of carrying. My place of employment is a "gun free" (target rich) zone. No carry there, or I get fired. Workouts and the need for a shower also require me to safely store the gun. Taking the kids to school, guns on school property equals a serious felony conviction. Different events/places that do not allow concealed carry or require that I switch to a much smaller gun to be discrete. Those are just some of the things that would cause me to safely store the weapon.

Thanks for the question.

whw

 

[jdkno]

If you are storing the gun in a safe there really is no need to unload it. That is provided you are refering to an acctual safe and not like a locked glove box.

So you have a small safe in the car to put the gun in or are you refering a safe at home?? IOW you put the gun in the safe, bring the kids to school, come back and get it, then make pits stops throughout the day to put the gun in and take it out of the safe at home?

Your gun is constantly loaded/unloaded all day long. This really increases the chances of you thinking it is loaded when its not and unloaded when it really is loaded. Personally my guns are always loaded all the time, this way they are ready to go and I never have to wonder or forget if there is 1 in the pipe or not.

I would suggest you look into one of these. It would allow you to carry an auto without worrying about the constant loading/unloading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trigger_lock

Bullet setback. Here is a tip get a fine point black sharpie and trace the casing/bullet junction. Once the black sharpie line has dissapeared toss the bullet into the range ammo box and get a fresh round.

 

[whw]

Bullet setback. Here is a tip get a fine point black sharpie and trace the casing/bullet junction. Once the black sharpie line has dissapeared toss the bullet into the range ammo box and get a fresh round.

jdkno,
This is the best idea I've heard related to preventing set back. Thanks much for the suggestion. I will incorporate it into my normal routine.

You are right about the constant loading and unloading. One time I was shocked when I tried to unload an empty gun. I had left the house thinking it was loaded, so this system I have developed is clearly not working.

Thanks again for the suggestion.

whw

 

[jbouwens]

It would be best to get all of the laws/regulations that apply in your state, some states consider your vehicle an extension of your home so having a firearm in the glove box/console for example would be fine in a school zone or non carry location. (don't advertise of course) As for showers and going between rooms and such, A high cabinet like the previous member said is fine for small kids, a small safe in a conveinent location might suit your needs, and with older kids 10-18, the kids need to be trained to leave that weapon in it's place and never touch it without permission. I know I may get rocked by people saying it is foolish to expect them to follow this directive; but, I grew up with dads gun cabinet in my room and I knew I might as well leave home as-to touch anything in there without his knowledge. This is old school thinking but my 3 year old doesn't and will not have toy guns and is already told that those "things" are daddy's stuff. I have a safe and I have a small bedroom safe to make sure the guns are out of site from little ones or from those who have sticky fingers, but I can't be in the room with my kid 24/7/365/ for the next 20 years. She may run across a firearm in another household and she is currently under training that guns hurt/kill and none of them are for screwing around. I will teach her to respect the gun and to get away from people that don't follow my philosophy on this subject. As for carrying multiple types of firearms, I am a big believer in pick one--train with one, react with one. I shoot all different types of firearms, but my carry piece has been the same for 10 years now. I carry a 638 and when I go to places that I can't carry the gun, it is stored in the car or if I know I have to go to the airport, courthouse, etc. I leave it home (very pissed about that by the way- concealed carry means everywhere IMO--bad guy know where the no carry zones are too). I have seen buddies change their carry piece multiple times and one of my pals changes about every week to maintain the finish on the revolvers. Changing from revolver to revolver isn't too bad but changing sizes, action, controls, etc. might get you in trouble when the reaction reflex kicks in in an emergency. I know a little something about this. (I will not go into details) Keep it simple. Sorry for the rant but I hope this helps.

 

[whw]

Hello jbouwens,

Thanks for the reply. It provides many good ideas and is quite helpful. I agree completely with the thought of sticking with one gun. That is part of what I'm trying to accomplish with this thread. I have to find a solution to my perceived concerns related to safety before I decide on a specific gun.

In addition, I'm trying to decide between DA and SA. I shoot the SA better, but I'm concerned that SA is much easier to discharge accidentally when under stress. That is for another thread.

whw

 

[jbouwens]

That is exactly why I carry my 638, I have the best of both worlds in one pocket gun. I can fire DA in a rush and SA if I have the time. The shrouded hammer not only has the option of the hammer along with other pluses like: see what status the revolver is in (cocked or not), I can judge when the hammer will fall when I am slowly squeezing the trigger in DA mode, and of course it is almost snag free coming out from cover (from pockets or under the shirt) I carried a model 36 before this one and it would at times snag clothing, that made my decision easier to switch to a shrouded hammer. Check out the 49 bodyguards if you want a heavier gun. The airweights get a bad wrap for recoil but with 110 or 125 grain hollow points the gun is pretty easy to control for most folks and you do have the option of putting a few hot loads in the cylinder to make sure that the round does it's job. One thing about the new airweights (My wife's 638-3) they seem to be at point of aim with the lighter bullets. My 638 will hit POA with 130 grain Winchesters and it is an inch low at 15-20 yards with the lighter bullets. If you want 357 mag power; Smith offers the 649-3 in a shrouded design and it is stainless. If you like the hammer guns, slightly bobbing the hammer will help with snagging and if you like the hammerless guns, with some tuning and training, you can get real good firing a DA only gun. Being a revolver, you have to pull the DA trigger plenty before it goes off so there is some "anti-twitchy accidental trigger pull" built in. Good luck with your search and happy shooting (hopefully never in anger).

 

[flop-shank]

+1 what jdkno said in his last post. Brother, you saved this slow typist some typing.

 

[jdkno]

Hello jbouwens,

In addition, I'm trying to decide between DA and SA. I shoot the SA better, but I'm concerned that SA is much easier to discharge accidentally when under stress. That is for another thread.

whw

Ever heard of Auditory Exclusion? The same thing happens with your muscles more or less under high stress situations. You still have control, you still feel things but the sensitivity is gone. IOW under stress you body will not know the difference between a 5lb trigger pull and a 12lb trigger pull. I think the whole DA trigger keeping people from pulling the trigger is BS. Its hardwired into our brain that when your body percieves a threat your first instinct is to clinch your fist, hence in high stress people who do not excersise trigger dicipline will inadvertantly pull the trigger. That flinch is going to happen no matter what, I dare anyone to say that their body flinched and they tightened up their fist but since the trigger was 12lb's vs 5 they did not accidently fire a shot.

With that out of the way I say if you are a better shot with a SA then go with that. The BEST weapon for self defense is the one you are more likely to be able to deliver accurate fire onto your target with. At the end of the day I don't want my tombstone to read "Dead because he couldn't hit the threat" with a footnote praising my ability to not inadvertantly fire a shot due to the heavy trigger pull.

 

[whw]

That flinch is going to happen no matter what, I dare anyone to say that their body flinched and they tightened up their fist but since the trigger was 12lb's vs 5 they did not accidently fire a shot.

Interesting point. I have not heard of auditory exclusion and I'm glad you have raised the issue. When considering the da vs. sa, I was focused more on the distance the trigger would have to travel, not the weight of the trigger pull. It might be that auditory exclusion also makes the trigger travel a moot point?

I appreciate your thoughts about using what is best. That clears the air substantially. I guess I might be overly cautious after having seen a couple of "nervous" discharges. Luckily, the injuries were minor.

Thanks for your thoughts.

whw

 

[USAF385]

I appreciate your thoughts about using what is best. That clears the air substantially. I guess I might be overly cautious after having seen a couple of "nervous" discharges. Luckily, the injuries were minor.

I've never had a "nervous" discharge, but essentially had an accidental one once. It was after I got my 642 and had been firing it extensively. I put many rounds through it since it was to be my carry gun.

The first time I shot my 681 after is when I had my "accident".

It wasn't anything bad at all. I was shooting SA because thats how I often shot it for target. I was pointed at the target and put my finger on the trigger... I wasn't intending to shoot at the time, but being so accustomed to the 642, I did! I still hit 2 inches from the center. That was enough of a lesson for me! Never anything like that since.

 

[jdkno]

It might be that auditory exclusion also makes the trigger travel a moot point?

whw

Auditory exclusion is where your hearing shuts down a bit. For example, ever been in a fist fight and thought about it after the fact and realized you did not hear anything going on during the fight?

Basicly what I was trying to say is that under stress you will not notice a heavy or light trigger you will just pull. On the other hand the gun will notice the difference meaning the heavier trigger pull will cause you to instinctively pull harder even though you don't realize it and chance sending the bullet off course by pulling the shot.

Thats why you shoot SA better than DA because the lighter pull has less chance of the shooter pulling the shot off target in the process of pulling the trigger.

 

[whw]

Thats why you shoot SA better than DA because the lighter pull has less chance of the shooter pulling the shot off target in the process of pulling the trigger.

Thanks for the clarification.

whw

 

[whw]

I wasn't intending to shoot at the time, but being so accustomed to the 642, I did! I still hit 2 inches from the center. That was enough of a lesson for me! Never anything like that since.

USAF385

Thanks for the feedback. There are so many conflicting positions on the DA vs SA safety issue. It is something I have struggled with. Carrying one of these things is such a significant responsibility, which demands an appropriate amount of thought. Part of that is listening to the experiences of others.

Some days I'm ready to dedicate my carry to the Hipower, but then I will read an article that DA is the only safe way to go. I'll consider carrying my Model 65, but then get concerned about the lack of capacity. I've been traveling in this circle for too long and wasting too much money. Just need to make up my mind and stick with the decision.

whw

 

[flop-shank]

whw, you should check into the Beretta Storm. Evan Marshall says his has a DA trigger just like an N frame Smith. You'll get a revolver-like trigger with the capacity of an auto.

 

[Farmer17]

My gun goes loaded into a cheap zippered pistol rug with a small three tumbler Master combination lock. I can unlock it pretty fast, but if I need it REAL fast I would just cut the lock off with my Camillius Heat assisted opening knife.

Be careful unloading your revolver and always visually check the empty cylinder. Many people have pointed the barrel at the sky and and punched the ejector rod a couple of times, ejecting the loaded rounds into their hand, thinking the gun was unloaded. What they didn't realize is some grease or crud held a cartrige to the extractor and it didn't come out.

My only accidental discharge was about 25 years ago (in my living room) because of this.

 

[whw]

whw, you should check into the Beretta Storm. Evan Marshall says his has a DA trigger just like an N frame Smith. You'll get a revolver-like trigger with the capacity of an auto.

Hello flop-shank,

Thanks for the suggestion. I will give the Storm a serious look. I like the interchangeable back strap and I've heard the rotating barrel reduces some of the felt recoil. The 92's I have are very well made, so I can only assume that Beretta has done as good a job with the Storm.

thanks,
whw

 

[whw]

What they didn't realize is some grease or crud held a cartrige to the extractor and it didn't come out.
My only accidental discharge was about 25 years ago (in my living room) because of this.

Wow. Thanks for the heads up because I've never heard of that happening before. I know when I went through the Glock Armorer's Course, they told everyone to stick their finger in the barrel to make sure a round wasn't seated. A visual inspection wasn't good enough. Too many people had fired a gun they previously thought was empty.

thanks,
whw