Concealed carry, holsters and safety

[BB57]

In Illinois where I'm currently stuck, the law says that concealed is "51% or more" is concealed. So in the photo with the OWB holster, in Illinois you would still be legally concealed because at least 51% of the gun is concealed.

One thing I need to explore with a lawyer is how the law treats the firearm and the holster. In my layman mind, your photo of the OWB carrying shows you to have the firearm 100% concealed because I can't see the gun. I can only see the holster. I'm pretty sure that it's not illegal in any state to have a holster on your belt because it's a piece of leather (or whatever it's made of). You only run into an issue legally if there's a gun in the holster.

Great point, and it’s worth discussing the distinction.

Way back in the early 1980s when was an LEO in South Dakota, the laws regarding concealed carry were very restrictive. Permits for concealed carry were cheap and easy to get (and they still are) and that may well have been part of the issue with having very little tolerance for even partially concealed carry.

For example, if you were out hunting and had a pistol along for a backup, coup de gras, etc, and the handgun itself was covered by your jacket with just the holster showing, it was considered concealed. In effect if any part of the handgun (not including the parts covered by the holster) was concealed, it was considered to be concealed.

Similarly, in many states you can have a handgun “in plain sight” inside a vehicle and it is still considered open carry. In South Dakota, if the handgun was in the vehicle, un-cased and within reach the driver it was considered concealed, even if it was in plain sight on top of the dash. (Please note I can’t speak to current SD law.)

——

In other states, partially exposing a weapon or a holster is considered to be unconcealed, and that can be a real problem when a state or jurisdiction allows permitted concealed carry but does not allow open carry. The reason some states or jurisdictions do that is because displaying a gun can make some people nervous.

——-

I am however not discussing the legal side of concealed carry but rather whether the people you are interacting with in public will be able to easily detect you are armed. Printing under a shirt is one thing. Having a holster exposed is another. Most people won’t notice someone printing unless it’s egregious, like a handgun clearly printing under a tight spandex tee shirt. Most people will however notice a holster sticking out under a shirt.

Personally, I’m in the “concealed means concealed” camp where no one on the general public should know you are armed.

 

[balin]

I find appendix carry is usually my preference. As long as the gun isn't too big. From the studies I have seen most people can draw quicker this way. And I find the gun is more accessible too. Easier to get to especially while seated or in a vehicle.

 

[Borderboss]

Anyone can carry however they like. However, I have two primary issues with appendix carry:

1. You need to have a flat belly to make that even a little bit comfortable when you sit down.
2. Having a gun pointed at my manly bits just plain makes me nervous.

 

[BB57]

In summary, it depends on what the definition of "is" is.

To use a phrase that some people find hollow or annoying, yet gets right to the point:

Is, “it is what it is”.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

Grammarian that I sometimes am, y'all are wearing me out with the English being bandied about hereinabove (that's one word for lawyers). However, it was highly amusing. So thanks!

Notwithstanding the definition of "is", a good point was made in connection with visible holsters and the laws of the jurisdiction wherein you find yourself. Texas was pretty weird in the beginning when the "CHL" law was passed, at least on paper. The original classroom instructions, IIRC, were that any exposure of a holstered gun was a violation because it failed the concept of "concealed". As I never heard of anyone being arrested for this so-called violation it seems to me it became a "dead letter" law. BICBW.

However, after the CHL law was changed to permit open carry by licensees (now called an LTC instead of a CHL), well, clearly, all bets were off, it no longer mattered whether a holster was visible or not.

After September 1st, when "Constitutional carry" becomes effective in Texas, it definitely no longer matters.

And Hawaiian shirts tell everyone a wholly different story - and I love them!!!

 

[BAM-BAM]

Outdoor dining in the summer here in the "Burbs of the Burgh" require a Hawaiian shirt! Per the Thomas Magnum Book on Proper Edicate!

To the original point of the thread........ Buy a GOOD holster..... I've never met a holster that is both GOOD and cheap!!!!! Sometimes cheap can be OK........ but my advice is; don't skimp..... buy once and be happy and safe!!!!!!!

IMO "printing" for the most part is a non issue today with all the belt carried "phones"/ smart devices....... that are the size of a Smith 3913

 

[Mainsail]

See my last post above.

As an aside I disagree on both your statements mostly because they are poor analogies.

For example, tell a woman who is 9 months pregnant your theory about being “more” or “less” pregnant. Maintain a safe distance and make sure she isn’t armed because she sure feels a lot more pregnant.

I never said more or less pregnant, re-read what I wrote. A woman is either pregnant or not pregnant, her "feelings" about it are irrelevant.

My analogy is apt; a sidearm is either concealed or not concealed, and obscured from view = concealed.

Medically speaking...

See the above- it's binary. A woman who has miscarried is not pregnant. A baby born with boy parts is a male, and likewise, one born with girl parts is a female. The rest of society might think it's hip to pretend otherwise, but us dinosaurs will stick to the truth. Some things are binary.

Here's what you claimed:

OWB is ... also usually less concealed due to..."

This is untrue, and it isn't semantics. I'm not trying to beat you up over it, I think you likely just articulated it wrong- like I said, them's a lot of words and the more words we write the more probable it is that we'll use the wrong one from time to time. As a fellow verbose writer, I can sympathize.

 

[Mainsail]

IMO "printing" for the most part is a non issue today with all the belt carried "phones"/ smart devices....... that are the size of a Smith 3913

I think this is the break-over for many people. They view 'printing' pejoratively, and even shape their whole carry strategy around its prevention; even to the detriment of more important considerations like effective gun/caliber or accessibility.

Printing is still concealed. A lump at the beltline can mean many things other than firearm, and in the majority of cases it does (seriously, the population of concealed carry people is in the single digit percentage of the total people you pass on the street, or less). If the only thing that triggers a cop to stop you is a lump in your shirt, he doesn't have reasonable articuable suspicion a crime is afoot, and thus cannot legally detain you for it.

Carry more - worry less!

 

[SchemaEnigma]

...Buy a GOOD holster... buy once and be happy ...

Buy ONE holster and be HAPPY????

Are you really a gun guy??

 

[BAM-BAM]

Buy ONE holster and be HAPPY????

Are you really a gun guy??

Ya..... and I've got the requisite Big "Box-O-Holsters" to prove it!!!!!!!!!

 

[kelljor]

Pocket Carry is a very viable option IMHO and I use it regularly with my 442 or LCP. Ankle carry is another option, but not my cuppa.

My wife has, what some refer to as a variant of shoulder holster, a bra based holster that hangs the handgun butt down and works for her. Another variant, I suppose, is belly bands.

Lots of options. My preference, personally, is for hybrid IWB dual clip holsters, strong side, 3 O'clock. I can wear those all day long with a FS handgun.

BTW, Hawaiian shirts ROCK!

Pocket carry is great. Gotta make sure your pocket are deep enough though. I have a bersa 380cc and a 442 that pop right in, but an LCR is a little taller and doesn't quite conceal the grip well. Sticks out just a tad, so I use a fanny pack if I carry that. The greatest part is if you are in a dicey area, just stick your hand in your pocket and no one knows what your hand is on. But you are ready for anything.

 

[Smoke]

I have a bunch of Hawaiian shirts.

But are they real Hawaiian shirts?

A woman cannot be "less pregnant", or a person "more dead"

They can however, be mostly dead.

 

[GnarlsR2]

In textual communications conceptual semantics is always in play.

Just like there are degrees or levels of pregnancy , there are levels and degrees of obscurity.

Obviously there are levels and degrees of concealment.

"If the English language made any sense, lackadaisical would have something to do with a shortage of flowers." ~ Doug Larson

 

[GnarlsR2]

Pocket carry is great. Gotta make sure your pocket are deep enough though. I have a bersa 380cc and a 442 that pop right in, but an LCR is a little taller and doesn't quite conceal the grip well. Sticks out just a tad, so I use a fanny pack if I carry that. The greatest part is if you are in a dicey area, just stick your hand in your pocket and no one knows what your hand is on. But you are ready for anything.

I've been pocket carrying my BG2 for 9 months. My choice of pants is important for comfort, concealment, and ease of withdrawal.

I find my jean style pants with smaller tighter pockets work, but my BG2 inside a Muddy River Tactical kydex prints slightly and is more difficult to withdraw.

My Dockers style pants are more loose fitting, with 14" larger deep pockets on the side rather than in the front, completely obscure the shape of the holster and grip. If someone is looking VERY closely if I'm walking, the shape looks like a cell phone. Withdrawal is very quick.

 

[Smoke]

I really tried to read the OP and make some sense out of it but it was like listening to Charlie Brown's teacher talk wah wah wah wah

 

[dben002]

I do carry IWB appendix in a leather custom holster with a belt claw.
Holster covers the entire trigger and trigger guard.
Also wear polo shirts with some kind of printed patten which helps concealment.
Also lots of new fashionable Hawaiian style pattern shirts that look good and aids concealment.

 

[lightstar_actual]

 

[Rustyt1953]

 

[Smoke]

I'm sure I've posted this photo a dozen times. If I'm wearing a flannel shirt I wear a Colombia fleece vest over it. If not I wear a camp shirt.

Again, throw a rock in Colorado Springs and you're going to hit a middle-aged man dressed like me.

I've also said this before, literally I was sitting in a doctor's waiting room one morning and there were 3 other guys there. All three of us where wearing Wrangler Cargos and fleeces.

Again, throw a rock...

 

[Wickerboots]

There are some really good all leather pocket holsters out there but I prefer to make my own. If I buy I have to alter them or my pants for ideal fit. When I make my own I can size it to my pocket and have a perfect fit. This also helps with pocket depth since the stocks will sit as low as possible (angle can be adjusted this way as well for best fit). I use a cheap awl and a box cutter with Jeff bezos leather so it’s only about $10 in leather plus change in thread/rivets/glue.