Guns Do SAVE lives!

devildog66

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1. Open carrier saved lives in Richmond shooting on Saturday!
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Guns Save Lives

On Saturday, a violent criminal shot a store clerk, had the customers in the store lined up, and while reloading his revolver told the customers that he was going to kill them all.

Then a person open carrying a single-action Colt .45 came in and shot the criminal in the stomach, saving at least six or seven lives.

I received a detailed account from a VCDL member who was at the scene (but not the person with the .45). One of the things I was told is how some of the customers were telling the police that the open-carrier was a hero and how he saved their lives.

If that's not being a first-responder when no one else was there to help, I don't know what is.

Here is the press coverage (and there won't be a word of any of this on any of the national news broadcasts):

Two shot in South Richmond store | Richmond Times-Dispatch

Richmond Times-Dispatch
Two shot in South Richmond store
By Reed Williams

Published: July 12, 2009

A gunman who had wounded a shopkeeper and opened fire on several customers was stopped yesterday when another man shot him at the store in South Richmond, authorities said.

The violent attempted robbery took place shortly after 1 p.m. at the Golden Food Market at 2701 Jefferson Davis Highway, the same store where another man was shot last month -- and only three blocks from the scene of another robbery in June that left a shopkeeper dead.

Owners of as many as a dozen Jefferson Davis-area businesses flocked to the scene of the shooting, and many were rattled by such a brazen daylight attack, said Councilwoman Reva Trammell, whose 8th District includes the Jefferson Davis corridor.

Trammell, who arrived outside the store shortly after yesterday's shootings, described a frenzied scene. One man told Trammell that the man who had shot the robber was a guardian angel.

"Whoever did it probably saved their lives in there," Trammell said of the shooter.

Police did not identify anyone involved in yesterday's shootings.

The man who shot the robber is a friend of the store owner, and he was wearing a holster with a Western-style revolver, said Managing Deputy Commonwealth's Attorney Tracy Thorne-Begland.

After the suspect shot the store owner and opened fire on patrons, the owner's friend shot the suspect once in the torso, took his gun and called police, Thorne-Begland said.

Thorne-Begland said it appeared that the shooting of the suspect was justified, although he emphasized that the investigation was in the early stages.

Police said they expect to file charges against the suspect.

The store owner's injuries did not appear life-threatening, authorities said, but the gunman's injuries were said to be life-threatening. No one else was hurt.

Anthony Gregory, who lives near Golden Food, said he was in the store about 15 minutes before the shootings, and that while he was there, he saw a man with a baby making a purchase.

Gregory said the owner told the baby, "Welcome to the world. This is a dangerous world, so be careful. But don't worry, God will protect you."

Police Cmdr. Steve Drew said officers had been patrolling up and down Jefferson Davis yesterday and recently have bolstered their presence in the area. He said it was unusual for a commercial robbery to happen so early in the day.

The previous shooting at Golden Food took place late the night of June 12. And three nights earlier, a co-owner of the Come and Go Food Market, which is about three blocks north of Golden Food on Jefferson Davis, was shot and killed in a robbery.

Authorities said it was too early to know whether any of the three shootings on Jefferson Davis are connected.

A few hours after yesterday's shootings, Said "Sam" Messaf, the man who was shot June 12 at Golden Food, was at the store to help another man shut down the market.

Messaf described how he had been helping out at the store June 12 when two robbers came inside. One man opened fire, reaching over the counter and shooting as Messaf cowered behind it, he said. Messaf was shot six times in his legs.

He said he suffered nerve damage in his left leg and has trouble sleeping.

Trammell said residents and business owners were scared by the recent violence but have faith that police are doing their best to stop it.

"I'm still shook up," Trammell said. "I'm not afraid, but we've worked so hard on Jefferson Davis -- so hard in that area to bring crime down."
 
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You're right!
I'm in NC, and not one word of this has been in any news source I've seen...
Thanks to that legally armed citizen, lives were saved.
I hope the store clerk is OK,

MW
 
Quite an interesting story and congratulations to the armed citizen who successfully intervened.

This story begs two questions: Just what were those folks who were allegedly told they were gonna be killed doing whilst waiting for the bad guy to reload? Perhaps the most obvious illustration of "sheeple" yet.

Two, how many of us would have become involved? After some previous threads, many (too many in my opinion) related their reluctance/unwillingness to become involved in such instances.

Be safe.
 
This story begs two questions: Just what were those folks who were allegedly told they were gonna be killed doing whilst waiting for the bad guy to reload? Perhaps the most obvious illustration of "sheeple" yet.
Doubtless, they were doing what "society" trained them to do.

Even in places where you have the right to defend yourself with a firearm, you're told NOT to. In almost every instance you're going to be told to put your "trust" in the hands of someone who's threatening you with death if you don't give him your property (or your body, if you're a woman). You're supposed to take it as a given that if you submit, you won't be maimed or killed. The only upside of 9/11 is that that sort of swill is a MUCH tougher sell these days.
 
Doubtless, they were doing what "society" trained them to do.

Even in places where you have the right to defend yourself with a firearm, you're told NOT to. In almost every instance you're going to be told to put your "trust" in the hands of someone who's threatening you with death if you don't give him your property (or your body, if you're a woman). You're supposed to take it as a given that if you submit, you won't be maimed or killed. The only upside of 9/11 is that that sort of swill is a MUCH tougher sell these days.

That type of "response" should have ended after the Onion Field incident. Sadly, it did not. My partners and I often discussed such scenarios and agreed we would NEVER disarm...ever. We used it in training and interview scenarios, too. Disarming was not a viable option.

Be safe.

Be safe.
 
That type of "response" should have ended after the Onion Field incident. Sadly, it did not. My partners and I often discussed such scenarios and agreed we would NEVER disarm...ever. We used it in training and interview scenarios, too. Disarming was not a viable option.

Be safe.

Be safe.
If you're not from California, don't read about police procedures or haven't seen the movie, the "Onion Field" isn't likely to mean anything to you. The slaughter of the doctor's family in Connecticut is even more applicable to the public at large, but still isn't universally known. They complied, and except for the husband, died.

9/11 on the other hand is thoroughly inculcated into the public psyche, especially the Shanksville, PA incident.

If I'm going to get shot, I'd rather get shot resisting than not resisting. Criminals don't expect EFFECTIVE resistance. If they did, they'd probably pick somebody else. If they wanted to WORK for their money, they'd get jobs.
 
Quite an interesting story and congratulations to the armed citizen who successfully intervened.

This story begs two questions: Just what were those folks who were allegedly told they were gonna be killed doing whilst waiting for the bad guy to reload? Perhaps the most obvious illustration of "sheeple" yet.

Two, how many of us would have become involved? After some previous threads, many (too many in my opinion) related their reluctance/unwillingness to become involved in such instances.

Be safe.

The people were doing the same thing several people did at Ft. Knox some years ago. The stood in a line against the wall and waited for the SOB to reload and kill them. The killer reloaded a revolver twice.
 
cmort666,

Thanks for that info.

The armed citizen that shot the SOB was open carrying a single action revolver, possible a Ruger. Guess that's where the "Single Action" business came into play.

Stay safe!

Mrwildroot
 
Yeah I can't imagine standing there as he reloaded. Even if I wasn't carrying (for whatever reason) I'd see that as a chance to do something. Just standing there awaiting my execution? Nope.
 
cmort666,

Thanks for that info.

The armed citizen that shot the SOB was open carrying a single action revolver, possible a Ruger. Guess that's where the "Single Action" business came into play.

Stay safe!

Mrwildroot

Thank you. My bad for not making my statement more understandable
 
Link to interview with the gun owner.
Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc. (VCDL)

****************************************************************************
1. Exclusive: I met with the gun owner who saved lives in the
Richmond Golden Market shooting last week
****************************************************************************

On Friday I received a surprise call from the gun owner who has been
in the press this week for saving lives at a Richmond store. The gun
owner used a replica 1875 Remington Army .45 Long Colt with a 7 1/2
inch barrel to stop a criminal who had shot the store's owner.

He wanted to remain anonymous, but called so that the story could be
set straight, as much of what was in the press wasn't accurate.

Board member Dennis O'Connor and I ended up meeting with him today
(Saturday) at the Golden Market store, where the shooting had taken
place one week earlier.

Besides being able to actually see the layout of the store, Dennis and
I got to see the security videos of the shooting!

We also got to meet the store owner who had been shot twice during the
hold up, but is now back at his store. More on this great man later.

Here is what we know from talking to the gun owner and watching the
videos:

The gun owner (GO) was in the store waiting in line to pay for an item
when the bad guy (BG) came in wearing dark sunglasses and trying to
coverup his face while brandishing a revolver. The BG yelled for
everyone to get down and before anybody could react, immediately
walked over to the store owner and in a cold-blooded fashion shot him
twice. The owner then dropped down behind the counter. It wasn't
more than 2 seconds after the BG first walked in the doors that he
shot the store owner.

Those shots at the store owner missed a teenage boy's head by inches.

The GO yelled for the BG to drop his gun as the GO drew his gun. The
BG opened fire on the GO. The GO returned fire, hitting the BG as the
GO dove hard for the floor behind some barrels full of ice and drinks.

The BG ran towards the back of the store, aiming his gun at an
innocent man laying prone on the floor. Luckily the BG was too
distracted by the GO to shoot the man. There is no doubt in my mind
that the man would have been shot in cold blood that day if it weren't
for that GO returning fire.

The BG kept trying to get to the front of the store by walking up
various aisles and firing shots at the GO as he did so. At one point
cans of tinned meat exploded on a shelf as the BG took a shot at the GO.

What was bizarre was that the BG actually was strutting around like he
owned the place while under fire! As he approached the front of one
aisle, he again pointed a gun at a person on the ground and was about
to execute him, when he was again distracted by the GO.

Finally the GO spotted the BG at the front of an aisle standing in the
open.

Much to his surprise, the GO discovered that when he dove hard for the
floor he had somehow broken the trigger on his gun!

But the gun was a single action, so the GO pushing himself up with one
arm, aimed the gun, pulled the hammer back and let it fly forward -
twice.

Although seriously wounded three times, the BG came at the GO. The BG
tried to grab the GO's gun since the BG's gun was out of ammunition.
A life-and-death struggle began. The GO got a grip on the BG's gun
and the GO hit the BG twice hard on the temple with the 7 1/2" barrel
on his rather heavy gun.

The BG finally broke off the engagement, tried to run out the front
door, but collapsed at the door.

The GO secured the BG's gun and keeping an eye on the now unconscious
bad guy, called 9-1-1.

The BG has now died (he was in critical condition since the shooting).

The police showed up a minute or so after the 9-1-1 call and initially
had everyone in the store at gun point and handcuffed some until they
could figure out who was who.

What really impressed me was that on the surveillance video, the
owner, while shot twice by the BG, was walking around making sure that
all of his customers were OK after the shooting had ended. He only
let himself collapse after he was sure they were OK! Words fail me on
this. I am so glad that he made it. What a dichotomy - a BG who
shoots an innocent person without provocation, almost killing a
teenager while doing so - caring for no one but himself. And then
the store owner who, while seriously wounded, making sure his
customers were OK. Evil exists and so does Good. Both were on
display in those two minutes of terror. Luckily only the bad guy was
killed. The owner was walking with a limp, clearly in some pain. :-(

A lot of people owe their lives to that GO. However, he is having
none of it, saying that he simply did what he had to do.

--

The GO wanted me to share the following points:

* Buy a quality gun - don't use some cheap $90 gun to protect your
life. He considered his gun to be a good one and even then the
trigger broke under the extreme stress of a life-and-death battle.

* Practice with your gun, get training, and be good with that gun.

* More and more BGs are choosing to kill in cold blood to get what
they want. If they can't live the "good life, " then they don't care
if their crimes send them to jail.

* He also noted that fewer and fewer BGs are getting any jail time.

--

Here are my thoughts from watching that tape:

* Talk about a cold-blooded, fast attack where an innocent was shot
without warning! Unbelievable. Situational awareness is really
important. Luck doesn't hurt, either.

* Open carry was an advantage in this case because in the video I saw
just how fast the GO managed to draw his gun and begin to return
fire. You always hear about how open carry is so bad tactically -
you'll be the first one shot, etc. Oh, yeah? The GO had a HUGE gun
in plain sight and he was NOT shot. Who got shot first? An unarmed
store owner.

* I am betting that the BG was on drugs, big time. He was hit with
THREE 45-CALIBER BULLETS, with at least two of those hits causing
grievous injury, and he continued the fight as if he had not even been
hit at all! In fact he was strutting like a peacock who owned the
place as he was walking up and down the aisles trying to get to a
position where he could shoot the GO. As a gun owner, you need to be
prepared for that eventuality and keep shooting the BG in his center
of mass until he stops his attack. Don't think one shot, or even two
shots, are going to do it. And a head shot might well be what it
takes to stop such an attack quickly.

* If you are out of ammunition, a gun does make a great weapon with
which to bludgeon someone in hand-to-hand combat.

* This shooting bolstered both sides of the argument about how much
ammunition one should carry. The good guy got off only four shots (of
course his gun had a broken trigger and that didn't help). The bad
guy got off six shots and ran out of ammunition (thankfully). But in
my mind, and having had some advanced training, I think an extra
magazine for a semi-auto, or a reloader for a revolver, is a good
idea. WIth someone like the BG above, if you run out of ammunition
before he does, he will execute you. Period.
 
Thank You!

That was a clear and concise report, containing facts and recommendations that we all can learn from.

The GO and the store owner are both to be commended.
BG is where he belongs.
A true miracle that no one else died during this robbery attempt.

...And I still have heard or seen nothing about this in the NC news or press....

Mrwildroot
 
Not that I ever had any inclination to carry a single action, loading gate revolver for self-defense, but if I ever did, that would have cured me of it.

Five shots in my 36 is bad enough. Five shots (six shots not safe in a Remington SA) without the possibility of speedloaders is WAY too much risk for me.

I"m glad that the good guy survived and that his assailant got what was coming to him.
 
Thanks to the gun Owner who effectively took out the garbage.In the kingdom of New York they place restrictions on our carry licenses cause god forbid a criminal may die instead of the innocent victim.Don't you know leroy was only stealing to pay for his first year of Harvard Medical School..............God Bless........Mike
 
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