Gunvault or no?

[FAS1]

If there is a shortcoming of the simplex lock approach (at least for the V-Line Top Draw), it is that the box does not automatically lock when you close the lid. You must grab the knob and turn it. If you are not confident in your ability to faithfully execute this, then a self-locking solution may be preferable. There are self-locking simplex locks. I don't know if any gun vault has them.

The FAS1 Safe relocks automatically when the lid is shut. It is the ONLY one that does with a pushbutton mechanical lock. It is an option on this style lock that no other manufacturer pays extra for.

Just watch the video:
FAS1 SAFE Video Clip

 

[Titan]

Titan

Everything wears out including digital locks.

If I get 10 years out of my $79 safe I figure that was a good purchase.

Russ

Electronics generally don't wear out unless they fail from heat or dust build up.

It sounds like my new dilemma is replace them in 5 yrs, 6, 7, etc. and hope I do it before the mechanics fail.

 

[Titan]

My guess would be the batteries. They need to be fresh and of the right "type."

You can't necessarily go by dates on the batteries, and you can't depend on a quick battery check open-circuit voltage reading.

By "type" I mean the battery chemistry type. Do not use ANY kind of rechargeable battery in this type of application. Nor do you want a "Heavy Duty" battery for most circuits like this. Typically you'll want a good quality alkaline battery.

Example: The internal backup batteries in my robots draw a small continuous amount of current when the robot it shut OFF to maintain the position encoder data. (So the robot will know where it is when turned back ON.)

With the correct alkaline batteries, they will last up to three years. When a customer swapped the batteries for brand new "Heavy Duty" batteries, they failed in two weeks... All of them, in about one hundred robots.

The heavy duty batteries can put out a lot of power for a short period of time, but their chemistry doesn't hold up for long with a low continuous drain. This is why most intermittently used electronic devices, or those with a low continuous drain like many smoke detectors, will specify alkaline batteries. I suspect this is what your safe requires.

Thanks, but you seem to have misunderstood. The failure occurs after changing the batteries with fresh Duracells (all I use) and resetting the code.

 

[Titan]

When it came to pick a bedside lockbox, I couldn't get away from the benefits of a simplex lock, which both the Fort Knox and the FAS1 Safe use. No electronics, no mandatory wait period if you enter the wrong code, tactile feedback, and you can get into the box without any light if you practice a little bit. I ended up with the V-Line Top Draw:

Top Draw

You can't use this as an underseat safe in the car, but V-Line makes other models that might sufffice. It's a well-made product and I really like it. It looks good sitting on my nightstand, which makes the wife happy. For underseat storage I use a simple lockbox with a key. I never store the gun in the box unless I'm leaving the car; if I'm in the car, the gun is with me somewhere easily accessible.

I love the Ft Knox box as well, but my problem with it is that it isn't a good solution in situations where someone had a chance to try lots of combinations until they got it open. Reportedly there aren't too many combinations compared to electronic locks.

It's probably what I will start replacing my gun vaults with though.

 

[wanderlust]

Good point

The Gunvault is not a safe. If a bad guy wacked it with a sledge hammer he borrowed from your garage she will open. Gunvault is made to keep curious children safe.

Russ

Yup.

I recently bought a Gunvault as a "temporary safe storing place" for my M&P9. Picking up my Shield tomorrow and it's at the point where I need a better, new safe.

I stress that this is my "temporary safe storing place," because although I feel it qualifies as "safe storage," the above posters have mentioned that it can't really survive a 15 foot date with gravity.

Also, I'm concerned about that tube shaped lock. I fear mine is easy to break into. :-/

Can somebody recommend something in a similar price range to the Gunvault but without those downsides? I fear I won't find a good safe for a good price.

Sorry to hijack the thread, btw. For my "temporary safe storing place," I will say that I do like it, but I don't foresee myself using it for much longer.

 

[Robotech]

Thanks, but you seem to have misunderstood. The failure occurs after changing the batteries with fresh Duracells (all I use) and resetting the code.

Sorry, but don't assume your Duracells are "fresh" just because they are new in the package or just purchased. I've had new ones fail within a month even when the package dates were still a few years down the road, which is why I no longer use 9V Duracells in my alarm system. They just aren't as good as some other brands, even their premium lines.

Also, 9V batteries tend to sit on the shelf in stores a lot longer than AAA, AA, C, or D batteries. I used to sell a lot of them back when I worked retail, and you needed to make sure to rotate the stock of 9V batteries especially, the same as you do other perishables. (Most stores don't bother to do so.)

P.S. I also spent 6.5 years working on advanced battery development, though I'll admit, not specifically on these types of cells.

 

[richard13]

I think you misunderstand the purpose of the bedside vault. It's not to prevent somebody from stealing my gun(s).

...

To describe the simplex lock as a solution with "more mechanical parts than you can possibly imagine have fail on you at a critical time" is to confess to ignorance of the simplex lock.

...

Hey BuckeyeChuck. First, off, I just want to say sorry if you took offense to what I wrote. It was not to be insulting to you (or anyone else). Judging by your extremely lengthy response I guess I touched a nerve.

No, I *do* understand what a bedside vault is for. I don't know where you got the impression that I thought it would in any way stop a thief from getting a gun. I am the OP, and if you read my initial post you would know that. I am interested in keeping my firearm in a more accessible location without leaving it in the open. The information found in this thread (including yours) has definitely helped me and will take it all into consideration.

Confess ignorance? Sure, I'll "confess" that I am not a locksmith and never claimed to be one. But it doesn't take a locksmith to know that mechanical devices, and specifically ones with multiple parts, can fail just as others do. My point being that, in my opinion, a mechanical safe is not necessarily better than a digital one. It's just different.

 

[FAS1]

I love the Ft Knox box as well, but my problem with it is that it isn't a good solution in situations where someone had a chance to try lots of combinations until they got it open. Reportedly there aren't too many combinations compared to electronic locks.

Can you point to any real life incidents where that has happened? While it certainly is possible given enough time, I think it would be very rare.
Most of the handgun safes that use the mechanical pushbutton lock are also constructed of heavier gauge steel than most of the electronic ones, making them much more secure overall when bolted down.

 

[hrw4]

Biometric!!!!!!!!!! By all means, anyone thinking of going that direction, please stay away from that ****. Biometric is not that easy to get into when your adrenaline is pumping. In most cases, you'll be dead long before you manage to open it in cases where stress is a factor. I'd rather see you have a lock and key than i'd see you with biometric.

How does this make sense? With the biometric safe, I hit one button, put my finger on the reader, and it opens. How is that more difficult than trying to find a key in the dark, and then fumbling with the keyhole. And if the key is readily accessible, why are you locking the gun up anyway? It's not keeping kids out, nor deterring thieves in any way. The other option I know of is a 4 digit keypress, which again at night could easily be incorrectly entered under stress.

Am I missing something? I mean, are there biometric safes out there that work differently than the one I have?

 

[Smitty357]

I lock "most" of my guns up, because I have guns that no amount of money could ever replace. I have guns that were handed down from grandfathers whom used them during WWII as well as other weapons that were used by them when they were LEO's. I also have weapons that will never be made again. Some of which where made before the 1986, but i'm not going to get into the reason behind that. If my gun safe keeps all those weapons from coming up missing during a burglary. IMO, the gun safe paid for itself at that moment.

As for biometric, the ones on safes are nothing compared to ones used commercially. And yes, it has a few way that will cause it to fail. Place a little water on your finger and try to scan it. You dont have to soak ur finger, just put a little water on it. This is basically the same as when your body sweats. Small amounts of sweat can be caused from stressful situations or situations in which the heart pumps more blood at a shorter amount of time, it causes the body to heat to go up. In a life or death situation, this scenario is likely to occur. If at that moment it does in fact occur, you're not getting into your safe fast enough to defend your life.

As for digital keypads on locks. Once u open them enough, u can do it blind folded, lol. Or you can get them with lighted keypads if you'd like.

 

[JMike]

I would say no to Gunvault. I have one I purchased many years ago and it has never functioned properly.

In this genre of portable safes, I recommend the LockSaf PBS-001.

Here is a video link from DefCon 19. WARNING: This video has a lot of objectionable language (IMHO) BUT it also has a lot of extremely useful information regarding these types of safes. WARNING: View at your own risk and it would probably be a good idea to do so in an area free from children or others that are offended by potty mouths.

Here is the link: DEFCON 19: Safe to Armed in Seconds: A Study of Epic Fails of Popular Gun Safes (w speaker) - YouTube

Hope this helps.

 

[Titan]

Sorry, but don't assume your Duracells are "fresh" just because they are new in the package or just purchased. I've had new ones fail within a month even when the package dates were still a few years down the road, which is why I no longer use 9V Duracells in my alarm system. They just aren't as good as some other brands, even their premium lines.

Also, 9V batteries tend to sit on the shelf in stores a lot longer than AAA, AA, C, or D batteries. I used to sell a lot of them back when I worked retail, and you needed to make sure to rotate the stock of 9V batteries especially, the same as you do other perishables. (Most stores don't bother to do so.)

P.S. I also spent 6.5 years working on advanced battery development, though I'll admit, not specifically on these types of cells.

My Gun Vaults are older models, and run on 8 AA batteries.

From many years of experience I have complete faith in Duracells, and have a battery checker that confirms they are at full charge, before I use them.

 

[Titan]

Can you point to any real life incidents where that has happened? While it certainly is possible given enough time, I think it would be very rare.
Most of the handgun safes that use the mechanical pushbutton lock are also constructed of heavier gauge steel than most of the electronic ones, making them much more secure overall when bolted down.

No, I can't, and I haven't done the math to figure out how many possible combinations there are.

I'm going by internet 'wisdom' which I'm skeptical of. That's why I indicated, I'd likely end up with new Ft Knox pistol boxes.

I LOVE the heavier steel used (24lb total weight vs about 6 for the Gun Vault), and the concealed hinge.

Does anyone know if they have an override (ex. key) if the combination is forgotten, or the mechanics fail?

 

[Titan]

How does this make sense? With the biometric safe, I hit one button, put my finger on the reader, and it opens. How is that more difficult than trying to find a key in the dark, and then fumbling with the keyhole. And if the key is readily accessible, why are you locking the gun up anyway? It's not keeping kids out, nor deterring thieves in any way. The other option I know of is a 4 digit keypress, which again at night could easily be incorrectly entered under stress.

Am I missing something? I mean, are there biometric safes out there that work differently than the one I have?

Apart from the 'misreads' I've encountered with biometrics that cost valuable time, the simplex lock style is not subject to (God forbid) bloody fingers, should the situation arise.

 

[FAS1]

No, I can't, and I haven't done the math to figure out how many possible combinations there are.

I'm going by internet 'wisdom' which I'm skeptical of. That's why I indicated, I'd likely end up with new Ft Knox pistol boxes.

I LOVE the heavier steel used (24lb total weight vs about 6 for the Gun Vault), and the concealed hinge.

Does anyone know if they have an override (ex. key) if the combination is forgotten, or the mechanics fail?

None of them use a back up key. I have considered offering it, but have only had a few requests. I could add it very easily and it wouldn't add too much cost (depending on the lock quality used). It might be an option in the near future. My personal opinion is that it just gives another access point for someone to mess with.

 

[Titan]

None of them use a back up key. I have considered offering it, but have only had a few requests. I could add it very easily and it wouldn't add too much cost (depending on the lock quality used). It might be an option in the near future. My personal opinion is that it just gives another access point for someone to mess with.

Thanks.
There built so tough, I wouldn't want to break in to it.
I guess you just need to write down the codes or use them all often enough to remember them.

 

[swampersand]

Just a thought or two.

If the safe is to hold your home defense handgun, just unlock it when you go to bed and lock it when you get up. The excitement of an event is no time to mess around with an obstreporous lock, you have more important things to consider. Also, look at Mesa safes, digital, pretty stout and they have a very roubust key that works if all else fails, i.e. batteries, keypads, switches etc. They are essentially hotel room safes and they lock with any credit card and will unlock with that same card, you can also lock with any three digits and unlock with the same three. Also have a six digit emergency code to open or failing that the key bypasses all of the electronics. When unlocked, the door opens silently, no squeeks, rattles or tinny noises.,